Which saw ? Which track ? Which miter ? which clamps ? which system ?

[woozie]

First of all thanks to all the contibutors who make this site a goldmine of knowledge for the enthusiastic DIYer I am.
You'll quick see that English is definitely not my mother tongue! I apologize for all those grammatical errors and hope to be understandable.

I don't own any Festool tool yet (except the handy VisioTape made by BMI).
I'm ready to make the jump in the next few weeks for the simple but very versatile LS130 sander for complete French-style doors and windows renovation as well as thick coated ceiling paint scraping. And I don't see any competitors.

Next -maybe in the meantime- I will also make the plunge, but for what?

I've been using circ saws for years and the hefty Makita 235MM/9.25in has become my do-it-all saw. It's plenty of power, can handle big rips and crosscuts (supports till 250MM blades not 10in!) and finer tasks (love to use 184MM/7.25in CMT ITK thin-kerf 1,3MM blades, rip or crosscut)
The main criticism is not the weight but I want something faster and lesser cumbersome to setup to achieve accuracy, something easier on panel cutting and maybe more than anything a "dustless" or "dustfree" enclosed device.

Since I want powertools that stay accurate, robust and reliable over the years and since I want to avoid any "aftersale regrets", I've narrowed my choice down to 3 models: Mafell MT55CC, Bosch GKT55GCE and of course Festool TS55REBQ.

After reading this forum the bare saw unit to choose would be the Mafell over the two others. But not fully decided yet. And with what? It's a global system after all.

Track:
The Bosch/Mafell seems to be "the straighter" when joining sections, is of a lower profile than its rivals, has two grooves for clamping (one closer to the cutting edge), main supplied lenghth 160CM is longer than competitors ;
while the Festool is more universal, compatible with Bosch/Mafell, Makita track saws, has more attachments for other tools and accessories, sticks better by itself, accepts Festool quick clamps.

I want to use my router (Bosch GMF1600CE/MRC23EVSK) with the track. I know there is a rail adapter (which is a trammel too) for Bosch routers to be used with their previous rail system. Is this adapter compatible with Festool rail? Or is there a new router adapter for the current Bosch/Mafell rail ?
There are also Festool's routers rail adapters but they don't fit Bosch routers, do they? Microfence is too expensive for my budget.

Is it worth to buy more than a single rail? I mean sliding a rail along a simple aluminum profile/stud is possible when reducing 250CM/10Ft panels.

Miter:
The Bosch/Mafell Miter attachment seems better to me for two reasons: while the Festool is a protractor, the Bosch/Mafell is more a bevel adjuster: the distance between two angles is longer hence the accuracy. And this attachment is a little rail by itself (what length exactly? 12in? 16in?)
But it needs a pricey Bosch/Mafell connector since this attachment must be mounted end-to-end as a rail extension for long cuts/long-reach cuts.
On the other side the Festool is cheaper and can be mounted on the main track.

Clamps:
I've never used a track saw and feel paranoid about rail slippage (especially in case of routing).
When I see the hundreds of quick clamping actions I do operate on a project it's simple: the more I use them the less I can live without them!
And I see Festool provides quick lever clamps (Bessey) for their tracks.

Is there a chance to use those Festool quick clamps in any of the Bosch/Mafell rail's grooves ?
If too thick is it worth to grind them ? Maybe yes for light clamping, making them useless for other applications. Costy.
Or use the  mafell "jaws" with the Festool lever handles if they can fit.

On the other hand Bosch/Mafell offers only basic screw clamps.
Do those mar material surface as conventional screw clamps?

I also understand that rail clamps (whether linear lever or circular screw) are one-hand operated since the "head" is held in the rail's groove making them all quick. Lets call them the quick and the quicker, hence the irrationality to choose a whole track saw system based only on the best clamps to be used.

So in the end what would be best choice ?
Focus on a single brand starting from the chosen saw ?
Choose a whole system where every part equals: saw=track=miter=clamps=future attachments=future tools ?
Or mix Mafell saw with Festool Track, miter and quick clamps ?
Buy Festool quick lever clamps and a compatible rail (Festool/Makita/or cheaper) and build a subbase and a blade cover for my circ saw ? Messy but I keep the 1,3MM kerf and also the ability to use a wide variety of blade sizes and applications.

Thanks for your help.

 

[nehardwoodfloors]

If you have the deniro, Maffell would be my choice.
I currently own a ts55 and it is overwhelmed by some of the hardwoods we use on a regular basis, so I'm looking to replace it with the Makita since I have 5-6 Festool tracks.

Maffell saw wont fit on a Festool rail.

For the price, the makita is a very good saw that will use a Festool rail. Since the rails are the same all the clamps and accessories will work as well. This is a $400 system. The Maffell is my top choice but is about double the cost and won't use my existing rails.

 

[peter halle]

Welcome to the FOG Woozie!  Your post was excellent.

My advice:  If you like the experience of experimenting and mixing parts of manufacturer A with those of B to get the most perfect situation for your needs, then do so.  If you are more interested in getting things done and not worrying about if a part will work with another tool or accessory, then pick a complete system from one manufacturer and stick with it.  Of course I am partial to my Festools and do not regret my expenditures.

Peter

 

[Stone Message]

Cher Woozie,

First, do not worry about your English - it seems perfect to me.

You have been using this site for a while - that should tell you a lot about what your choice should be. Why have you stuck with the FOG? I suspect that it is because we are a family and the Festool tools are also a family. When you buy into the Festool system you soon discover that many of the accessories for one tool fit other tools. You will discover that Festool have put a huge amount of effort into dust collection, not just their extractors, but also the design of the tools to maximise dust collection.

Your woodwork will dictate the order that you should buy into the brand. You are obviously getting ready to do some serious sanding. Do not forget the small but highly capable Rotex 90 which gives you 3 sanders in one. The delta mode may be very useful for those French doors.

I needed to replace my radial arm saw and for less than the cost of a reasonable RAS I bought the MFT3, TS55 and some guide rails. I can cut wider kitchen worktop than I could before and every cut is perfect. I bought the World's most wonderful mitre saw, the Kapex 120 and still get a thrill using it. The dominos are great (the DF700 is brilliant - you might find one useful if you have to make some of those doors). I love my OF2200; it is a true gentle giant. Despite my arthritis I am able to do even quite delicate work with this super machine.

I am delighted with every piece of Festool kit that I own and plan to buy more once I have recovered from the cost of the latest family wedding!

Bonne chance,

Peter

 

[Frank-Jan]

...mafell saw wont fit on a Festool rail....

My understanding was that the mafell mt55c DOES fit the festool track, but the difference in thickness between the mafell and festool tracks causes that, when the saw is set to a bevel, the cutline doesn't equal the edge of the guiderail anymore.

 

[GhostFist]

The mafell will work with festool rails. Don't know about the bevel thing on the festool rails something to look into. My Mafell MT55 is on order along with the angle rail and to 160 rails. I do not not currently own a TS55 but have used it and quite like it but decided to go with the mafell pretty much due to the reasons you stated re; saw power, rail straightness and connection, low profile, and clamping options. could see the aerofix system coming in handy down the road as well. I'm also interested in the Festool LR32 system for my of 1010 or at least those rails to use with my router. So you have a mix and match of a couple of rails. I don't see a problem with that. JMB has stated he found the mafel rails did not grip quite as well as the festool rails without clamps on certain materials, as do not yet have it I can't comment either way but the mafell tracks I have for the Kss300 grip nicely. Just something to consider.

 

[Mettes]

Just last week an online-dealer in the Netherlands published a comprehensive test of Festool TS55 an TS55R, Mafell, Bosch, Makita and DeWalt tracksaws.

Now what you should know about this dealer is that he is pretty biased and pro-Mafell.  That doesn't have to be a bad thing, but I'm following his site now for a couple of years and I get the impression he's dropping Festool in favour of Mafell.  He gives a part of his dealer-discount to the customers, so he sells under the official Festool-price.  Festool is not very happy about this, that are his own words.

Google translate should make it readable to anyone, if there's something that doesn't make sense and you can't find out, let me know.  I'll be more than happy to try and give you a better translation than Google.

Gereedschappro.nl - tracksaw test

 

[cgmojoco]

Is the TS75 stronger than TS55 with respect to cutting hardwoods? I havent had any problems yet w 75 though havent meeded to cut serious.hard wood yet.,

 

[woozie]

Thanks for your replies.

> In reply to Eco-Options:
Actually dinEUros! Ultimately yes if I want to be happy with my purchase and no aftersale regrets. But I don't see any money tree growing up in my backyard!

> In reply to Stone Message:
Fortunately the door/window frame structure is 99% intact. Only some little rotten zones to be burred/rasped and filled with a mixture of sapelli/sapele fine dust and epoxy. Some mitered glass stops to be changed.
Counting doors and windows outside and inside plus one 7 metre wide rectangular mezzanine dormer and four triangular ones there are 334 squares of glass (each one circa 13inch side) in the house. Four edges and two sides per glass we get 2672 profiles to sand! Plus of course the rest of the rails and stiles and frame and decorative profiles all around...
So LS130 Duplex + custom shaped pads is definetely THE Thing to go with.

Being in England you certainly know that Sterling-based dealers have taken a big benefit from EuroZone-based customers the last 4 years. Axminster (and some others) can thank us for the money flows that crossed the Channel to finance the deployment of their network of stores all over GB and maybe next over Europe as Woodcraft or Rockler in the USA.

I've -well- spent money with UK online stores but surprisingly every time I had the opportunity to buy a Festool powertool I finally got one from a rival:

- Needed a vibration-free and powerful pendulum motion jigsaw: Grabbed from Axminster 3 years ago the Swiss-made Bosch GST135BCE + pack of blades half the price than in EuroZone. With this one I feel confident for the next 20 maybe 30 years.

- Needed a dustless ROS: picked up a 6in CEROS, brushless motor (very important to me when building surfboards with hours of continuous use), almost maintenance free (for the previous reason), lowest center of gravity, light (due to separate power unit), risk-free damp sanding, very efficient dust capture with Autonet/Abranet. No more a snowman!!!

- Needed a little sander to reach where 6in ROS won't go: Chose the Fein Multimaster kit with Delta, Circular and Profiled sanding attachments. Dust capture is not the best but it's designed for little tasks and CEROS dust hose is near. Plus this one does cut too!

- Needed a miter saw: picked up the Bosch glider and its gravity-rise stand for less than EUR1000 (EUR1050 delivered, from UK) last fall. Just couldn't resist, while I still haven't pushed that one to its limits, which at least on the paper go beyond the Kapex's ones (hence the weight I know...)

- Needed a new portable planer: chose the GMC 3 blades one with spare sanding barrel for EPS/PU foam roughing. EUR80 delivered from Amazon UK last summer.

- Needed an all-around impact driver (my very first cordless tool): bought 2 years ago the Bosch 18V from US-based ebay seller half the price than in Europe. Only had to buy 220V charger here. So last spring I only had to purchase the matching hammer drill bare tool the same way cheaper from the US. 18V can handle fine and heavier duty tasks.

- Needed a mid-sized router: Chose the new Bosch combo over the Festool OF 1400 because a dual base is very practical and separate motor could find its place in a future homemade CNC. Dust capture is very efficient with supplied accessories. (I own the big Triton 2KW I modded in a RouterRaizer way that will stay now under table and a Kress 1050 FME motor (Swiss-made, 10Y warranty) with router baseplate which also serves me as a Dremel on steroids.)

- Needed an efficient dust collection unit: Got the unique Axmister/Numatic NVD750 dual motor dual inlet ports for fine dust and large shavings + a Jet AFS1000 air filter for less than the price of a CTM.

> In reply to To Peter Halle:
Yep that's the thing I'm shaking my head:
Choosing a brand system once for all. I've started with Bosch (GMF1600CE router) but there seems to be no router attachment for their current rail system (the Mafell one). Maybe because those rails which mostly attach to plunge saws are not available in the USA while the US version of my router (MRC23EVSK) has been distributed there for two years.
Or mixing.
Or building a subbase for my circular saw. Make it glide on a rail would reduce friction and the weight felt. Also I would have to build a blade cover with a kind of elastomere membrane thin enough to expand/contract when setting height of cut but rigid enough to avoid catching the blade when vacuuming. Pretty doable lol!

> In reply to Frank-Jan:
So I would loose some of the Mafell or Bosch saws accuracy benefits when using Festool rails ?

Is there really no chance to use Festool quick clamps with Bosch/Mafell rail ?
Any way to "troubleshoot" this?

 

[neth27]

The Festool clamps will not fit on the mafell tracks, the part that slides into the rails is a lot thinner on the Mafell. You could try grinding a set of Festool clamps down and hope it does not weaken them.

John...

 

[Jalvis]

I've never had an issue with the edge changing on the MT55 during bevel cuts on the rail....I haven't tried but it doesn't make sense that the edge would be different on the Festool track?.....my guess is that the edge would be different on a festool track if the track was set for a festool saw.  Theres a simple solution to that with the MT55...one can adjust the blade edge at the saw which is a really great option. 

As for the Mafell track: one can add Festool rail tape to the bottom for added traction if needed.....a cheap and easy solution.

The New Festool TS55R narrows the gap between the Mafell MT55.....although the stronger motor on the MT55 pushes it above(among others).  I also have found the blade changing so much easier on Mafell and due to the ease has caused me to change the blade more often for my needs rather than just using whats already on the saw.

 

[woozie]

Mafell F-SZ / Bosch FSN SZW   +   Festool FZ HZ   =   Combo  
Mafell F-SZ / Bosch FSN SZW   +   Bessey GH 12/16/20-8   =   Combo  

Doable?

 

[Frank-Jan]

I've never had an issue with the edge changing on the MT55 during bevel cuts on the rail....I haven't tried but it doesn't make sense that the edge would be different on the Festool track?.....my guess is that the edge would be different on a festool track if the track was set for a festool saw.  Theres a simple solution to that with the MT55...one can adjust the blade edge at the saw which is a really great option.  

Plunge cut saws from about every manufacturer pivot in such a manner, that, when doing a bevelcut on a rail, the point of entry of the sawblade into the workpiece is at the bottom of the rubber strip at the guiderail. (So you won't cut into the rubber strip, and your cut matches the mark you align the rail with)
If that pivotmechanism is made for a thinner guiderail, than the point of entry will be a bit away from the guiderail.

/just noticed my post count: number of the beast.

 

[GhostFist]

Diggin the beast post.  [thumbs up]

 

[fritter63]

/just noticed my post count: number of the beast.

Maybe NOT….

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Woozie,

You might look at MicroFence here in USA for using various routers with the Festool or even other tracks.  I believe you will find a workable solution there.

Best,
Notorious

 

[sancho57]

woosie,
festool is a system. Everything is sold seperately so you can build your own system to reflect your wood working.

http://www.festoolusa.com/company/system-approach.html

All I can say is buy for need not for want. Meaning buy the tools as you need them.

Soon you will have a system of your own.

 

[Nigel]

[welcome] to the forum Woozie.

I think one of the biggest advantages of the Festool line is the Plugit system. You want to change from saw to sander or domino or jigsaw you change both dust extraction and power at the tool. This ability very fast,tidy and convenient. No cables to tangle up. The tools are generally far better than the competitors although there are now some equally good  tracksaws available but they are not part of the system.

 

[GhostFist]

plug it chords are awesome. I do miss them on non Festool machines. as I understand, pigtails are available in Europe to convert non Festool to plug it. as far as "the system" goes, Festool dust collectors work with what ever has a dust collection port, I believe most non Festool saws work with Festool rails. so the system isn't really disturbed by buying a competitor.

 

[Michael1960]

I currently have a Makita track saw.  I have not really tested it with thick hardwoods.  To date the main use has been to break down plywood and MDF sheets.
Some times I regret buying this saw as its not compatible with the rest of the Festool system i.e. 'plug it' power cords.
Eco Options - do you know if the Makita unit has more power than the Festool track saw.  If this is the case then I'd best keep the Makita saw.