Who needs a Riving Knife?

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I have been a forum member for about a year now, I have read most posts with interest, but this one is amazing, did anybody think of actually finding out from Mafell why they can do away with a riving knife on the 55 ?.
After reading and following this thread, thinking I must be missing out, never had any kickback , especially after owning the said saw for over a year, using it a lot, mainly for what it was designed for, cutting faced boards, plunge cutting into such boards and into Formica faced board without ever a problem of any kind.
I also have been dealing with wood for a while, 42 years, witnessed and suffered kickback from handheld and static circular saws through the years etc etc.
I would have bought festool but in the case of a small plunge saw, for me and for what it is used for, the Mafell was and still is, the best saw on the market.

I include the reply I received from Mafell on this subject.

PRESS RELEASE
Safer sawing without a riving knife
 
MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw with kick-back protection
 
 
In its new MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw, MAFELL has combined the benefits of enhanced active safety, improved handling and enhanced cut quality – without a riving knife. According to the manufacturer, active kick-back protection averts the danger of recoil when the blade enters the work more effectively than a riving knife. In addition, design measures introduced alongside standard EN 60745-2-5, which entered force in 2007, have increased the passive safety of saws that dispense with a riving knife.
 
Especially when entering the workpiece, the blade of conventional plunge-cut saws can easily jam and thus cause a kick-back. The MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw significantly reduces the likelihood of this effect occurring. Thanks to the CUprex Compact motor driving the sawblade at a maximum of 6,200 rpm, the cutting speed is 20 per cent higher than usual. The teeth of the carbide-tipped sawblade thus remove less stock per revolution, which appreciably reduces the risk of jamming.
 
The probability of a kick-back arising from sawblade jamming is much lower while sawing is in progress as well. The high speed enables the blade to cut itself free more effectively. Additional safety is afforded by the automatic isolation of the power supply to the motor if the blade jams.
 
"The active kick-back protection provided by the high speed and automatic power supply interruption offers greater safety than a riving knife, which does not protect against the kick-back effect when the blade enters the work and can be a nuisance for the tradesman," comments Ralf Kohler, head of sales and marketing at MAFELL. Josef Riederer, a tradesman of Unterneuhausen, vindicates the manager's claim, "I feel safe when working with the MT 55 cc."
 
The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.
 
Dispensing with a riving knife makes the saw much easier to use. When changing the sawblade, for example, it is no longer necessary to change the riving knife according to the blade thickness and adjust it to suit the blade diameter. This not only accelerates the blade changing operation, but also reduces the workload when working with a variety of materials. Tradesmen are also delighted that the absence of a riving knife protects sensitive surfaces against the risk of scratch marks.
Media contacts:
 
Volker Simon​Ralf Kohler
Tel.: ​+49 711 248922-169​Tel.: ​+49 7423 812-135
Fax: ​+49 711 342185-32​Fax: ​+49 7423 812-218
E-mail: ​volker.simon@lmpr.de​E-mail: ​ralf.kohler@mafell.de
 
LässingMüller Public Relations GmbH ​MAFELL AG
Gerokstrasse 8​Beffendorfer Str. 4
70188 Stuttgart​78727 Oberndorf
Germany​Germany
www.lmpr.de​www.mafell.de

 
Well Mafell have kept that bit of information to them selves, [sad]

If I had known that I would have swapped the ts for the mt at the end of the loan period. I was offered the mt at a good discount.

I am annoyed now. The Mt 55 is a far superior saw to the TS55. (it is a newer design , in all fairness) I did not get it because of the lack of a knife and if i had had the above info , i would have swapped.

So the Verdict is................ You don't need a riving knife on a rail saw if it has been specifically designed to work with out  it .

[huh] I wonder if the discount I was offered still stands [tongue]

John
 
Hi brtone,

Thanks for the informative first post  [thumbs up]

So the Mafell  was designed not to need the riving knife.

I will re-iterate what I had posted previously..... no one should be removing or altering the riving knife on a saw, or suggesting to do so.

Posts that have included such have been edited or removed.

Lets put this riving knife debate to bed.

Seth
 
brtone said:
The passive safety of the MAFELL MT 55 cc plunge-cut saw is also enhanced by the strict provisions of EN 60745-2-5 for saws without a riving knife. In the event of a kick-back, the standard requires that the sawblade fully retracts inside its housing within just 0.3 seconds. In compliance with the standard's provisions, MAFELL tested this safety feature more than 50,000 times.

Dispensing with a riving knife makes the saw much easier to use. When changing the sawblade, for example, it is no longer necessary to change the riving knife according to the blade thickness and adjust it to suit the blade diameter. This not only accelerates the blade changing operation, but also reduces the workload when working with a variety of materials. Tradesmen are also delighted that the absence of a riving knife protects sensitive surfaces against the risk of scratch marks.
Media contacts:

Volker Simon​Ralf Kohler
Tel.: ​+49 711 248922-169​Tel.: ​+49 7423 812-135
Fax: ​+49 711 342185-32​Fax: ​+49 7423 812-218
E-mail: ​volker.simon@lmpr.de​E-mail: ​ralf.kohler@mafell.de

LässingMüller Public Relations GmbH ​MAFELL AG
Gerokstrasse 8​Beffendorfer Str. 4
70188 Stuttgart​78727 Oberndorf
Germany​Germany
www.lmpr.de​www.mafell.de

[big grin]  Its what I said just before just in less detail!!! [big grin]    I recon its the MAIN safety reason for not having a riving knife.   I know when the TS75 kicked up and out on me it was retracted fully in very quickly.

yay for me!
 
waynelang2001 said:
Do Festool say somewhere that the TS should never be use without the riving knife ????

Several times. There are instructions to "always use the riving knife" as well as instructions about never modifying the saw. Both are stated multiple times.
 
Seth, I think you're over-reacting a bit.

On the older ATF saws (55 and 65) the riving knife does not retract and must be removed to make a pocket plunge cut and the ability to safely and accurately do so is one of the chief features of Festool plunge cut saws.

I frequently make pocket plunge cuts with my ATF 55 saw. The riving knife has been sitting in the bottom of the Systainer for nearly two years.

However, I also replaced the standard blade with a small Freud blade with a 1mm kerf so even when I make a fast pocket plunge cut there is very little kickback. The thin blade is another reason I can't use the (2mm+) riving knife.

I'm not suggesting that everyone should do what I do but to say we can't even talk about it is too strict.
 
jmbfestool said:
I know when the TS75 kicked up and out on me it was retracted fully in very quickly.

I went downstairs and tested my TS 55. As long as your finger is on the trigger—even if you've released the lock button—the blade can still come out of the guard again. It is not locked in the up position. This means that if you don't let go, and the bottom of the saw hits you, you can still get cut.

Just something to keep in mind…
 
Thread has been locked due to ........

The discussion of comparing these saws was fine and interesting. But the riving knife debate kept  coming around to weather or not the knife was needed. And resulted in suggestions of removal or overriding the knife. Festool Owners Group forum does not support the removal of safety features.

Many people of all skill levels come here for advice and instruction. 

Seth
 
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