why is festools afraid of selling sys air m in the usa - Is it a bad product?

[Cheese]

I don't know...this sounds pretty lame to me.

"As with all projects, we always develop our products together with our end customers. In surveys and practical tests, a remote control did not play a major role for our customers, which is why we decided not to develop one."

I extracted these snippets from Festool ad copy on their website:

SYS-AIR: The air purifier for workshops and construction sites.

Mobile air purifier for filtering airborne dust for construction sites and workshops with filter class M

This means less cleaning effort and greater cleanliness in your workshop.

Thanks to the practical ceiling suspension (accessory), it can be securely positioned in the workshop.

Mobile on the construction site. Or placed securely in the workshop and stowed to save space. The air purifier can be used flexibly with the ceiling suspension (accessory).

Improvement of air in the workshop


And here's the complete workshop spiel in Festool's own words.
https://www.festool.com/accessory/d...ther-accessories/578357---dh-sys-air#Overview

Jeez, my Jet AFS 1000 which was purchased 21 years ago, came with a remote control that I use all the time and it's mounted on a homemade roll cart and rolled around the shop. This SYS-AIR M would be slick if used on a SYS-RB roll cart.

"snip...a remote control did not play a major role for our customers...snip" Ya, I'm sure it's much easier for the customer to just unplug it from the wall... [eek]

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[Tom the Remodeler]

(Snip)

Jeez, my Jet AFS 1000 which was purchased 21 years ago, came with a remote control that I use all the time and it's mounted on a homemade roll cart and rolled around the shop. This SYS-AIR M would be slick if used on a SYS-RB roll cart.

"snip...a remote control did not play a major role for our customers...snip" Ya, I'm sure it's much easier for the customer to just unplug it from the wall... [eek]

I think it's important to remember that the regulars on the FOG represent a very specific minority of the larger target audience for Festool.

I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth on the FOG when Festool released the SysLite DUO without a switch. As a professional tradesperson, I see switches as one more thing to fail, so for my use case, I really appreciated Festool skipping the switch.

Same with the Sys Air. For my professional use case, all I want for it to be is to fit in a Systainer, and filter the air at HEPA levels. Anything more is unnecessary and, frankly, makes the tool less desirable.

 

[Cheese]

Hi Tom, I understand where you're coming from but I don't see it as an either/or situation...either switched or not switched. It's nice to have options and on the Jet, I have the option to power on/off using the remote control or by using the switch on the machine itself. And if I don't like either of those options, I can always unplug the cord from the outlet which is the ONLY option available on the SYS-AIR M.  [sad]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Hi Tom, I understand where you're coming from but I don't see it as an either/or situation...either switched or not switched. It's nice to have options and on the Jet, I have the option to power on/off using the remote control or by using the switch on the machine itself. And if I don't like either of those options, I can always unplug the cord from the outlet which is the ONLY option available on the SYS-AIR M.  [sad]

I would just assume that in a job-site situation, the switch wouldn't be that big of a deal? You plug it in, let it go, while you are working, then unplug it as you pack up to leave. It runs the hole time, no need to shut it off, until time to go.
As has been said, for a more permanent shop unit, there are better choices.

I don't know...this sounds pretty lame to me.

"As with all projects, we always develop our products together with our end customers. In surveys and practical tests, a remote control did not play a major role for our customers, which is why we decided not to develop one."

I extracted these snippets from Festool ad copy on their website:

SYS-AIR: The air purifier for workshops and construction sites.

Mobile air purifier for filtering airborne dust for construction sites and workshops with filter class M

This means less cleaning effort and greater cleanliness in your workshop.

Thanks to the practical ceiling suspension (accessory), it can be securely positioned in the workshop.

Mobile on the construction site. Or placed securely in the workshop and stowed to save space. The air purifier can be used flexibly with the ceiling suspension (accessory).

Improvement of air in the workshop


And here's the complete workshop spiel in Festool's own words.
https://www.festool.com/accessory/d...ther-accessories/578357---dh-sys-air#Overview

The same could be said for the CSC SYS 50. It is intended as a portable (job-site) unit, but there are people who use them in workshops too.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Here in OZ that would be considered a very unusual product release to not provide an option for remote control of anything that's capable of being permanently mounted out of reach.

We're used to having switches on everything that's mains powered, and remote control is generally pretty standard for anything of this type.

 

[johnmpf]

When they announced it, I was interested to know if I could use it in my cigar room - as The Ultimate Festool Flex (for my friends who mainly use Makita). Messaged Festool about that and they discouraged that kind of use!

I am not surprised that they discouraged usage in a cigar room.  That is not the intended use by any stretch of the imagination.  It is a particle filter not a chemical fume filter.  It's like using a dust mask when spraying paint. 

I would guess that some of the smoke would get caught by the filters, but not the same as using a system designed for smoke removal.

I would be afraid to recommend it for a cigar room.  The trial lawyers would be lining up at my door.

 

[mino]

I am not surprised that they discouraged usage in a cigar room.  That is not the intended use by any stretch of the imagination.  It is a particle filter not a chemical fume filter.  It's like using a dust mask when spraying paint. 

I would guess that some of the smoke would get caught by the filters, but not the same as using a system designed for smoke removal.

I would be afraid to recommend it for a cigar room.  The trial lawyers would be lining up at my door.

More like the cigar plumes would destroy it over time.

ABS plastics are not friends with the nasty stuff cigars produce. I venture to guess it would also clog-up the filters pretty fast from the tar-like fluids the aerosols turn into. More of a "likely to break it" than "would not work" type of a scenario.

Pure chemical plumes, like the solvents from the paints, are a different beast. Smoke is generally small particles floating about. A "simple" mechanical filter works reasonably well.

That said, for a smoking room you want some metal body filtration unit, need not be stainless but should avoid plastics. There should be some suppliers focusing specifically on that market.

 

[leakyroof]

I read the review in the link provided. I cracked up at the picture of the Person sanding stairs, with the Sys Air taking up space a few stairs ahead of them, with the large hose coming down into the actual workspace. Made me laugh, as I'd be pretty happy just with the excellent dust extraction I'm already getting from the Festool vac hooked up to my sander in the first place.
But, I get it, there are users, and jobsites that will require that EXTRA air filtering. I also agree that if you're going to all the trouble of offering a Ceiling Mount for the unit in a stationary position, the lack of a remote compared to pretty much all other stationary Filtering units is strange and hard to really justify, regardless of 'What our polling' results told us.
  Offer the ceiling stand and remote as a stand alone kit. I suspect not many of these Sys Airs are going to be hung from a ceiling, but would love to see real world usage a few years from now if they're selling pretty well worldwide.

 

[simonh]

This SYS-AIR M would be slick if used on a SYS-RB roll cart.

That's how I use mine. I have a couple of other Systainers underneath it so it sits around the MFT height. That way I can roll in closer to what I'm doing that generates dust.

 

[Walter Cronkat]

Any updates on when it will be available in USA? I'd really like one. Perfect for installs in finished $5-10 million dollar homes where cleanliness is critical.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Any updates on when it will be available in USA? I'd really like one. Perfect for installs in finished $5-10 million dollar homes where cleanliness is critical.

Hi Walter,

There's no guarantee we'll ever see this product in North America. If Festool does decide to produce a version for our market, I'd be surprised if we see it before 2026.

 

[squall_line]

Any updates on when it will be available in USA? I'd really like one. Perfect for installs in finished $5-10 million dollar homes where cleanliness is critical.

Hi Walter,

There's no guarantee we'll ever see this product in North America. If Festool does decide to produce a version for our market, I'd be surprised if we see it before 2026.

My concern about ever seeing this in North America is the UL listing, which has caused similar Systainer-contained devices to be de-listed or never make it to the States.  I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the marketing/finance departments trying to figure out how many pallets/containers need to move for the UL listing and pricing to make sense, but I'd also hate to be tasked with making that decision myself.

 

[jronman]

If anything one coming to the US will just be a North American model and sold in Canada as well. They could probably throw in Japan as well since they also use a similar voltage.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Looks like this product is coming to North America earlier than I anticipated, shipping date of 2025/03/26.... Pricing looks pretty good as well, should be handy for those small in/out projects.

 

[woodferret]

I'm actually surprised we get both HEPA and non-HEPA options.  Pinch me.

 

[Packard]

It could be something as simple as supply chain issues.  Maybe they cannot get enough of critical components from suppliers.  If that were the case, I would imagine they would take care of their domestic market first, and then enlarge the sphere as components become available.

 

[mino]

It could be something as simple as supply chain issues.  Maybe they cannot get enough of critical components from suppliers.  If that were the case, I would imagine they would take care of their domestic market first, and then enlarge the sphere as components become available.

Or more like a normal non-rushed product release.

Now matter how you "trust" a product, unless something else is pushing you, you release in the market where you have the best service presence should anything pop up. This is just proper risk management every competent organisation does. Unless forced to forego it for market reasons like with IT and consumer electronics where "not working properly" is almost an expectation these days.

No testing will ever be able to account for the (ab)uses*) a tool gets subjected to in the real life. This is especially relevant when releasing a new class of a product. So releasing to a limited audience - which is physically close to your service/engineering center - first makes all kinds of sense.

*) No design can ever be idiot-proof. If one makes such, mother Nature will develop a better idiot.

 

[Packard]

It could be something as simple as supply chain issues.  Maybe they cannot get enough of critical components from suppliers.  If that were the case, I would imagine they would take care of their domestic market first, and then enlarge the sphere as components become available.

Or more like a normal non-rushed product release.

Now matter how you "trust" a product, unless something else is pushing you, you release in the market where you have the best service presence should anything pop up. This is just proper risk management every competent organisation does. Unless forced to forego it for market reasons like with IT and consumer electronics where "not working properly" is almost an expectation these days.

No testing will ever be able to account for the (ab)uses*) a tool gets subjected to in the real life. This is especially relevant when releasing a new class of a product. So releasing to a limited audience - which is physically close to your service/engineering center - first makes all kinds of sense.

*) No design can ever be idiot-proof. If one makes such, mother Nature will develop a better idiot.

I remember buying a Contigo brand travel mug that clearly had not been even field tested.

While driving in my SUV the bottom of the mug hit the ceiling of the car when the mug was only half finished.  So if the “travel mug” was not for traveling, it would be fine. 

But field testing is only the first step.  Limited distribution will point out durability issues, and specific application issues that cannot be learned in the design studio.

The alternative question to “What is Festool afraid of?”, would be “What is Americas’ hurry for this new product?”

 

[Packard]

My Amazon account works with various nationality Amazon locations.  And I have ordered from Amazon.de (German Amazon), with fast shipping and modest freight costs. 

Can you order this device through Amazon.de?

 

[semenza]

I remember buying a Contigo brand travel mug that clearly had not been even field tested.

While driving in my SUV the bottom of the mug hit the ceiling of the car when the mug was only half finished.  So if the “travel mug” was not for traveling, it would be fine.

But field testing is only the first step.  Limited distribution will point out durability issues, and specific application issues that cannot be learned in the design studio.

The alternative question to “What is Festool afraid of?”, would be “What is Americas’ hurry for this new product?”

  This is clearly the fault of the SUV designers and engineers.  The mug is perfect.  The SUV needs a higher ceiling or a wide sun roof.  [big grin]

  Or possibly the car manufacturer, and travel mug industry is in collusion with the coffee purveyors. I think this is the most likely cause of the situation.  [blink]    [smile]

Seth