Why Spend $700 On A Festool CT Dust Extractor?

[Mort]

Lest we forget, the OP was about economics. And since I seem to be the resident poor guy on the FOG, here's what I have to say.

The CT is cool, no doubt about it. But value for money, I'm not seeing it. Fein sells an adjustable suction fitting for $35. A tool actuating switch sells for about $55 at Woodcraft. I bought a Craftsman vac about 13 years ago that'll still suck a bowling ball through a drinking straw that you can hook both those up to. Total purchase price: $210. Yup, it's loud. Maybe throw another $5 in for some ear muffs.

My Sears vac does fine with my Carvex, and will probably do just as fine with the Domino I will be getting next week.

Economic sense? There isn't any. If you have to have all of that malarky get a Fein. It's cheaper and pretty good, from what I hear.

 

[Cheese]

Good post Shane. Thinking back about how I've changed my collection of dust...I offer this simple chronology. Times change...

[attachthumb=1]

Milwaukee R2D2...purchased more than 25 years ago, a stripper, no HEPA, no variable suction, no auto turn on. Manufactured from stainless and it's heavy, but it will suck up anything that's less than 2" in diameter.

[attachthumb=2]

Fein Turbo II...purchased 15 years ago, no HEPA, no variable suction, but it does have auto turn on.

[attachthumb=3]

CT 22...purchased 8 years ago, no HEPA but it does have all the other Festool bells & whistles.

[attachthumb=4]

MIDI...purchased 2 years ago, HEPA and all of the rest of the Festool bells & whistles.

Bottom line, downsizing and maximizing functionality is the road to the future.

 

[Kev]

Lest we forget, the OP was about economics. And since I seem to be the resident poor guy on the FOG, here's what I have to say.

The CT is cool, no doubt about it. But value for money, I'm not seeing it. Fein sells an adjustable suction fitting for $35. A tool actuating switch sells for about $55 at Woodcraft. I bought a Craftsman vac about 13 years ago that'll still suck a bowling ball through a drinking straw that you can hook both those up to. Total purchase price: $210. Yup, it's loud. Maybe throw another $5 in for some ear muffs.

My Sears vac does fine with my Carvex, and will probably do just as fine with the Domino I will be getting next week.

Economic sense? There isn't any. If you have to have all of that malarky get a Fein. It's cheaper and pretty good, from what I hear.

Just to make a fine point - economics doesn't mean "spend less up front".

Please consider all of the factors over the life of the tool's operation and the value it brings to your effectiveness. Too often people ignore total cost and process efficiency which are all about value over time.

I've seen trades people cut corners and cost themselves more on projects and I've seen hobbyists get frustrated using inferior equipment.

There will always be something cheaper than a Festool (or a Woodpeckers, Mafell, Bridge City, Felder, etc)

 

[WastedP]

The beginning of this video compares a Craftsman, a Fein Turbo, and the CT 36:



I bought the CT at the end of the recon sale last year.  The lower price definitely drove the sale; I'm not sure how long I would have held out with the other vacs if I had to buy a CT at full price.  If the Midi had been available, I would've bought one instead.  If the CT-SYS ever makes it to this continent, I might be convinced to pick one up to complement the CT 36.  I've used it an awful lot the last few weeks and I can't imagine doing that same work with one of the other two options.  I'm a huge fan of the onboard cord and hose storage.  It has almost paid for itself this month just by transporting systainers.  Carrying the beast up stairs isn't very awesome, but the long intervals between bag changes (I made it over a year on the first bag with sporadic use) help make up for it.

I sold the Fein.  I still keep the Craftsman because I haven't been able to bring myself to use the CT as a wet vac, and if nasty crud grows in it and smells, at least I'm not bringing it in a customer's house.

 

[Shane Holland]

Just to make a fine point - economics doesn't mean "spend less up front".

Please consider all of the factors over the life of the tool's operation and the value it brings to your effectiveness. Too often people ignore total cost and process efficiency which are all about value over time.

I've seen trades people cut corners and cost themselves more on projects and I've seen hobbyists get frustrated using inferior equipment.

There will always be something cheaper than a Festool (or a Woodpeckers, Mafell, Bridge City, Felder, etc)

Excellent post, Kev. I too have been a "victim" of going for something cheap only to realize its shortcomings and have to go back and buy something better after the fact. Ultimately costing way more than just buying the right thing to begin with. For me, it was a lack of wisdom. I *think* I've gotten beyond that point in my life now and really see purchases as investments.

I was actually researching backpack blowers last week. Fall is around the corner and with a lack of rain, the leaves are already falling in my yard. I've made many purchases over the years, increasing in value, to lessen the work of taking care of my lawn in the fall. In my research, I started with a well reviewed $300 model and by the end of a late night on the web poking around found a 900+ CFM model that costs between $500-550. For me, it's definitely an expensive purchase, but when I think about it over the course of say 10 seasons, it's super cheap and saves my time doing something I don't enjoy. Sure it'll sting a little, but in the long run it'll be worth it and I won't regret the frustration of a mediocre solution and have buyers regret.

 

[WastedP]

I went through the same process when we bought our house a few years back and I needed to buy a dishwasher.  I ended up spending double what I budgeted because I saw what I would get for that price, and it was no comparison to the superior design and construction of the model I ended up buying.  I hand-washed dishes for three weeks before I finally gave in and bought the Asko I wanted.  Three years later, I am still really happy with the purchase.  I think the CT is the same idea.  The Fein required repairs and maintenance (cleaning) often.  The Shop-Vac is a noisy, unwieldy tank.  The costs vs. benefits of the CT work for me.

 

[Cheese]

Since I seem to be the resident poor guy...

You're funny...but on another note, you're not the resident poor guy, but just one of thousands of woodworkers that thought they'd have a pleasant retirement only to finally realize, that once they bit the poison apple, the bite would become their undoing. Misery loves company I guess, that's why we're all here on the same ark.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I bought an Aget cyclone with a bag house for half of this 700.00 decision.

I wish i could latch the cts together, real pia trying to stack 3 up and go.

 

[WastedP]

I bought an Aget cyclone with a bag house for half of this 700.00 decision.

I wish i could latch the cts together, real pia trying to stack 3 up and go.

I have a picture of an awesome manifold in my head.

On the economics front, also take into consideration the absurdly high resale value of used Festool equipment.

 

[Cheese]

I was actually researching backpack blowers last week.
Sure it'll sting a little, but in the long run it'll be worth it and I won't regret the frustration of a mediocre solution and have buyers regret.

FWIW, I've used a Stihl 85 hand held blower for the last 10 years and I thought it was great. Last fall I decided to somehow shorten the time I needed to "rake" the lawn and looked into a backpack blower. I demoed a Stihl 600 Magnum and after just 15 minutes I purchased it. My main concern was the weight as I'm almost 67 years old. But it sits evenly balanced on your back and it is quite comfortable...well considering you're carrying a very large bowling ball around. Incredible power, incredible leaf gathering capabilities. I also use it in the winter to blow snow as it is that powerful. In the spring, I use it to blow the class 5 rock that has been plowed into the grass from the alley back into the alley. I've actually blown a paving brick across the alley just for S&G. A high recommend.

 

[John H]

Interesting thread:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/ctl26-sooooo-disappointing/

 

[sae]

I was actually researching backpack blowers last week. Fall is around the corner and with a lack of rain, the leaves are already falling in my yard. I've made many purchases over the years, increasing in value, to lessen the work of taking care of my lawn in the fall. In my research, I started with a well reviewed $300 model and by the end of a late night on the web poking around found a 900+ CFM model that costs between $500-550. For me, it's definitely an expensive purchase, but when I think about it over the course of say 10 seasons, it's super cheap and saves my time doing something I don't enjoy. Sure it'll sting a little, but in the long run it'll be worth it and I won't regret the frustration of a mediocre solution and have buyers regret.

[member=48572]Shane Holland[/member] Stihl BR 600, don't look back.

 

[Holmz]

Ok, I've gotta say a little more at this point. And this time I'm going to put on my marketing hat.
...
Shane

Not that my opinion matters, but I found that well balanced and factual.
Thumbs up!

 

[Kev]

I was actually researching backpack blowers last week. Fall is around the corner and with a lack of rain, the leaves are already falling in my yard. I've made many purchases over the years, increasing in value, to lessen the work of taking care of my lawn in the fall. In my research, I started with a well reviewed $300 model and by the end of a late night on the web poking around found a 900+ CFM model that costs between $500-550. For me, it's definitely an expensive purchase, but when I think about it over the course of say 10 seasons, it's super cheap and saves my time doing something I don't enjoy. Sure it'll sting a little, but in the long run it'll be worth it and I won't regret the frustration of a mediocre solution and have buyers regret.

[member=48572]Shane Holland[/member] Stihl BR 600, don't look back.

I have the cordless 36V Stihl blower with the 180 batteries - ok for a small garden. They do a backpack battery, no idea of the U.S. cost though.

It's good - but it won't blow over a house of bricks ... [wink]

 

[sancho57]

I look at it like this.

Festool is a system. It's designed to work together as a system. Sure there are things that will work with the system, but it is not part of the system.

Something's have already been said in the different post,

Can't set a systainer on a shop vac and how nice they can be stacked on a CT.

the ability to turn down the suction when sanding?

The hose garage wrap your hose store it on your CT

How nice the CT fits under a MFT

Now can other tools do all this? Some yes, other just bits, and others not at all.

It goes back to the system.
Does $700 seem like a lot of cast for a vac? Why yes.
So does $ 900 for a cell phone, 5 K for a TV when you can get by a lot cheaper...
It boils down to personal preference.

 

[APRP]

Just a question from an earlier post. As quoted by Shane why do US customers get 10% of when they combine there purchases?  We only get 5% in Canada. We pay a higher price for the tools due to the dollar and the U.S. Customers get more of a discount.

 

[Mort]

Since I seem to be the resident poor guy...

You're funny...but on another note, you're not the resident poor guy, but just one of thousands of woodworkers that thought they'd have a pleasant retirement only to finally realize, that once they bit the poison apple, the bite would become their undoing. Misery loves company I guess, that's why we're all here on the same ark.

I wish I were retired, I'm only 34

To the previous posts about cost over time, if you're a professional cutting inside with your Kapex (cue the music...), I get it. Time=money.

I'm a hobbyist, let's leave all that out. My Craftsman cost $120 about 13 years ago. I've replaced the filter twice (I blow it out) for about $35 total. Plus, all the accessories came with it. I understand that costs up to $300+ with the CT? I don't buy bags.

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt at all the CTs are among the best out there. My Craftsman is loud, doesn't autostart my tools, you can't vary the suction, it's not HEPA certified, doesn't hold any systainers, and takes up a lot of room. But it vacuums.

The original post was about economics, and that's a hard sell to me. Sell it on it's awesomeness instead. I would not talk anybody out of one based on that.

 

[fshanno]

I went through the same process when we bought our house a few years back and I needed to buy a dishwasher.  I ended up spending double what I budgeted because I saw what I would get for that price, and it was no comparison to the superior design and construction of the model I ended up buying.  I hand-washed dishes for three weeks before I finally gave in and bought the Asko I wanted.  Three years later, I am still really happy with the purchase.  I think the CT is the same idea.  The Fein required repairs and maintenance (cleaning) often.  The Shop-Vac is a noisy, unwieldy tank.  The costs vs. benefits of the CT work for me.

I paid triple what I should have.  Because why?  Because the handle matched the fridge and the range.

 

[tjbnwi]

I have 4 CT's, looking to get a 5th. The decreased noise alone makes it worthwhile to me.

Tom

 

[teocaf]

I'm a hobbyist, let's leave all that out. My Craftsman cost $120 about 13 years ago. I've replaced the filter twice (I blow it out) for about $35 total. Plus, all the accessories came with it. I understand that costs up to $300+ with the CT? I don't buy bags.

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt at all the CTs are among the best out there. My Craftsman is loud, doesn't autostart my tools, you can't vary the suction, it's not HEPA certified, doesn't hold any systainers, and takes up a lot of room. But it vacuums.

[member=46908]Mort[/member]
A few questions:

When you say you blow out the filter, do you use compressed air? 
Do you blow it out inside over your trash can or do you take it outside, check the wind direction and blow it out towards the neighbor's house, perhaps?

When you're vacuuming without all that "fancy expensive HEPA stuff" how do you prevent the fine particles from shooting out the exhaust?  (Things like a DIY guy would encounter, like drywall dust, grinding dust, loose insulation, cement dust, sanding dust, plain ol' fine dust, etc)