Aside from buying a refurb computer, would it be a problem to use Windows 7 on a new computer that comes with Windows 8? And will it be dificult to obtain Windows 7?
Seth
Seth
Windows 7 ?
- Thread starter semenza
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You can probably easily get the software, but I would recommend installing the software on a new hard drive, or sub dividing the current hard drive to run both operating systems. This way you can have the best of both worlds. It doesn't hurt to keep Windows8 installed. You don't have to use it.
Basically, you would have a designated choice of which OS to boot when the computer starts. I'll say more later. In class now.
Basically, you would have a designated choice of which OS to boot when the computer starts. I'll say more later. In class now.
AlexThePalex
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I wouldn't touch windows 8 with a twelve foot pole if I were you. I still can't wrap my head around the idea that Microsoft thinks you can treat a desktop PC like a touch sensitive tablet.
Windows 7 is easy to obtain, any software store will have it. I think Win 7 is a pretty good OS.
If I got a pc with Win 8 on it, I would reformat the drive and put Win 7 on it.
Windows 7 is easy to obtain, any software store will have it. I think Win 7 is a pretty good OS.
If I got a pc with Win 8 on it, I would reformat the drive and put Win 7 on it.
They have made some pretty good update to it, and you can use the system like a normal OS. The "tablet" type setup is there just as an extra feature that can be good for some things. I am interested in where it will be taken.Alex said:
Also, let me elaborate a little bit on what I said in the previous post.
1) Obtain your new operating system (in this case, Windows 7).
2) Either use your current hard drive and partition it (basically break it into parts) or buy a new hard drive for pennies on the dollar, really. They are that cheap.
3) Install the new OS on the new hard drive, or partitioned part of the old hard drive.
4) With a new hard drive, you will have to set a "master" and "slave" hard drive. Basically, the "master" is the main drive that will be used. There are plenty diagrams on how to do this. I'm not sure if it is universal for all hard drives.
5) In your startup BIOS, you can pick the "boot" order. That means when you start on your computer, it can first check hard drive A, then the CD rom, etc. Pick the hard drive that you have your preferred OS on.
Doing this method you will keep all the drivers and such that comes with the computer. You gain, but do not lose. If you are going to buy Windows 7 anyway, you might as well keep Windows 8 for later use (if they make it much better).
AlexThePalex
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pghmyn said:
The days of master and slave drives are long gone. You had to set a jumper on the back of old IDE drives to do that. Last 7 or 8 years SATA is the standard and the master/slave system is not present anymore.
Any modern harddrive is big enough to house two partitions with an OS on it, but unless you're quite the tech savvy experimenter I don't see why you would need a dual boot environment.
Microsoft went full retard with Win 8 and because of user protests they now slowly but surely put normal functionality back in it. Don't make the mistake to think it's back to normal again with a couple of patches.
Last one I set up I salvaged from an old unit just to run Windows XP as a secondary.
I want simple. Not really interested in partitioning the hard drive. Also this will be on a laptop so I am not looking for an extra piece to cart around (assuming the add on drive would be external).
Seth
Seth
Some laptops have space for a second drive, most don't. Partitioning and keeping windows 8 is your next best option.
To be honest, if you want simple you might be best off enlisting the help of someone who has done this a few times before.
I don't know what your skill level is when it comes to these things, but a friend of yours might be confident enough to help.
Daniel
To be honest, if you want simple you might be best off enlisting the help of someone who has done this a few times before.
I don't know what your skill level is when it comes to these things, but a friend of yours might be confident enough to help.
Daniel
Sparktrician
Member
Look at it this way, Seth. Microsoft really blows every other release of their operating system in recent years. Windows 7 is a good O/S; Vista sucked ditch water and did it in a big way. XP was a really good O/S, but is quite long in the tooth by now and almost off life support by Microsoft; Windows 2000 was a kludge. Windows 98 was OK, but Windows 95 was another sucky O/S. Got the picture? I recently had to help a friend get her new laptop - Windows 8 - connected to her WiFi and wired router, and immediately got a VERY bad taste from the experience. If I used the language here that was in my mind at that time, you'd ban me for life. If all you're doing is browsing and email, you might want to take a look at Ubuntu Linux. It's FREE, and comes with a bunch of good packages built in. It's a bit different in the user interface and will take some reading and getting used to, but it's very competent and is upgraded every six months, late in April and October, with regular updates. Firefox and Thunderbird come with Ubuntu, so it's just a matter of setting up your accounts, plus you can sync your bookmarks from another computer using Firefox and cross-load them onto the new Linux computer. Just a thought...
[smile]
[smile]
Macs are a bit more money initially but!!!! Bought my first Mac about 5 yrs. ago. It was getting a little long in the tooth so I started using one of the wifes windows 7 laptops for browsing and email (she needs a specific software that we can't get for Mac in Canada or she would have Macs for her biz as well). Not a bad OS, trying to emulate a Mac. Just got a good deal on a 4 yr old Mac Book Pro. The difference is like comparing a $99.00 shop vac to a CT. Both will vacuum up a mess but the similarity ends there. As Steve Jobs would say, I found windows 7 good but "Clunky", whereas the Mac is smooth and nice and easy and and and. The nice thing about my 4 yr old Mac is that for what I do it will last me 3 or 4 more yrs with a RAM upgrade and maybe a SSD.
Since we are on the topic of Mac computers...
Seth, if you want the Festool of computers - get the Mac. I know I gave you advice about a Windows based system, but strongly consider a Mac. Have programs that can only run on Windows? No problem, you can actually install Windows on a Mac as a secondary system (worst case scenario).
I have an iMac that I bought when I was in 7th grade (8-9 years ago). It cost me $1,200 brand new (I raised the money by selling candy bars - all of the money). I still have this unit, and it still runs practically just as fast as the day I bought it. I can not say the same about any Windows based machines that I have. I no longer use it because I moved onto my MacBook Pro (which is amazing as well).
Seth, if you want the Festool of computers - get the Mac. I know I gave you advice about a Windows based system, but strongly consider a Mac. Have programs that can only run on Windows? No problem, you can actually install Windows on a Mac as a secondary system (worst case scenario).
I have an iMac that I bought when I was in 7th grade (8-9 years ago). It cost me $1,200 brand new (I raised the money by selling candy bars - all of the money). I still have this unit, and it still runs practically just as fast as the day I bought it. I can not say the same about any Windows based machines that I have. I no longer use it because I moved onto my MacBook Pro (which is amazing as well).
I just got a new high end HP notebook yesterday with Windows 8. Attention Mr. Bill Gates: What on earth were you thinking about?
The "relearning" curve is ridiculous as far as the whole user interface is concerned. I had to do a Google search to learn how to log off. I am not kidding, this is how bad it is --- pull your mouse down to the lower right hand corner and briefly pause, the "magic charms" will appear alone the right hand side. Click on the icon that looks like a gear. Then pick something else and eventually you will see choice of restart, logoff, shutdown. Yes --- they are called charms
I am sure I will likely it eventually. Some of the software that I work with daily as an analyst/statistician is going to be requiring
Supposedly Lee Iacocca told Chrysler employees to get back to the basics when he took over leadership of the company --- make a car that will start, get you back home and turn off. Mr. Gates must not have heard that message.
The "relearning" curve is ridiculous as far as the whole user interface is concerned. I had to do a Google search to learn how to log off. I am not kidding, this is how bad it is --- pull your mouse down to the lower right hand corner and briefly pause, the "magic charms" will appear alone the right hand side. Click on the icon that looks like a gear. Then pick something else and eventually you will see choice of restart, logoff, shutdown. Yes --- they are called charms
I am sure I will likely it eventually. Some of the software that I work with daily as an analyst/statistician is going to be requiring
Supposedly Lee Iacocca told Chrysler employees to get back to the basics when he took over leadership of the company --- make a car that will start, get you back home and turn off. Mr. Gates must not have heard that message.
Ok, I just played around with Win 8 in a store for about ten minutes. Went online, found the control panel etc. I have read a bunch of reviews and such about how bad the navigation and user interface is etc. Honestly I didn't see the problem. Sure a few things are a little different , there's no Start button, and some other things are to the right instead of the left. But it all seemed pretty familiar by just toggling to the regular desktop. I am not a smart phone or tablet user.
So it seems from replies here that there are other things that are problems.
Additional input would be great.
Seth
So it seems from replies here that there are other things that are problems.
Additional input would be great.
Seth
GaryLaroff
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Like others on this board, I’m one of the members with a long history with computers. I’ve had industrial desktop computers/PCs at home since 1970, later went in to the computer industry and am now retired after 30 years of that.
I ordered a brand name Windows 8-based Ultrabook in November and think it was brilliantly designed, was very clever and will probably result in a successful class of products. But the hardware was problematic and the manufacturer had me ship it back for a refund in January. Some design silliness notwithstanding, I did get quite a bit of experience with Windows 8. At home my power machine is a Windows 7 desk-side computer from 2010. Windows 8 is a single computer environment that will work the same on computers, laptops, tablets, phones and other devices. It should be attractive to customers and companies that are drowning in the costs of supporting different environments for desktops, laptops, tablets and phones. Only time will tell if a single solution is what the world wants.
From a Windows-user perspective, Windows 8 is like the next version of Windows 7 but with the Start button replaced with something that looks like an Apple iPad on steroids. There are two worlds there, the Windows Desktop and the startup Tablet Interface and you can toggle between them. You already know the Windows Desktop. The Tablet interface is a growing world with new applications available hourly.
In Windows Desktop mode the screen, applications and everything you know from Windows 7 is there and looks the same, except that the “gadgets” that you could put on the screen are now full-blown apps on the “tablet screen”. All the Windows 7 applications run well including Microsoft Office, CorelDraw, Apple iTunes and a lot more. Windows 8 supports Windows 7 device drivers for printers and scanners. As a major version upgrade of Windows 7, there are some subtle changes and they all appear to be improvements. But you need to relearn the Start Menu and how to access My Computer and some other Operating System-related issues.
The Tablet interface will probably be important to those people who like tablet computers and smart phones. Once you know it the easier it will be to buy a Windows-based tablet and have it look comfortable. The more you think that your computer, car and table saw should work like a cell phone, the more you will love Windows 8 Tablet mode. There is a lot there and more to come. But there is a learning curve. Buy a book and read it. Good luck and be patient.
Back to the OP’s question, Windows 7 will run on a Windows 8 platform, but many computer vendors such as Dell will install and test out Windows 7 for you and include Windows 8 “for free” if you choose to upgrade. With 20:20 hindsight, that is what I would do. Also, in my feeble opinion, the Tablet mode is only sensible with a touch screen computer. If you are buying a laptop, even with Windows 7, I suggest you get a touchscreen laptop to support Windows 8 when you are in the mood.
Windows 8 is stable and can be learned.
Gary
I ordered a brand name Windows 8-based Ultrabook in November and think it was brilliantly designed, was very clever and will probably result in a successful class of products. But the hardware was problematic and the manufacturer had me ship it back for a refund in January. Some design silliness notwithstanding, I did get quite a bit of experience with Windows 8. At home my power machine is a Windows 7 desk-side computer from 2010. Windows 8 is a single computer environment that will work the same on computers, laptops, tablets, phones and other devices. It should be attractive to customers and companies that are drowning in the costs of supporting different environments for desktops, laptops, tablets and phones. Only time will tell if a single solution is what the world wants.
From a Windows-user perspective, Windows 8 is like the next version of Windows 7 but with the Start button replaced with something that looks like an Apple iPad on steroids. There are two worlds there, the Windows Desktop and the startup Tablet Interface and you can toggle between them. You already know the Windows Desktop. The Tablet interface is a growing world with new applications available hourly.
In Windows Desktop mode the screen, applications and everything you know from Windows 7 is there and looks the same, except that the “gadgets” that you could put on the screen are now full-blown apps on the “tablet screen”. All the Windows 7 applications run well including Microsoft Office, CorelDraw, Apple iTunes and a lot more. Windows 8 supports Windows 7 device drivers for printers and scanners. As a major version upgrade of Windows 7, there are some subtle changes and they all appear to be improvements. But you need to relearn the Start Menu and how to access My Computer and some other Operating System-related issues.
The Tablet interface will probably be important to those people who like tablet computers and smart phones. Once you know it the easier it will be to buy a Windows-based tablet and have it look comfortable. The more you think that your computer, car and table saw should work like a cell phone, the more you will love Windows 8 Tablet mode. There is a lot there and more to come. But there is a learning curve. Buy a book and read it. Good luck and be patient.
Back to the OP’s question, Windows 7 will run on a Windows 8 platform, but many computer vendors such as Dell will install and test out Windows 7 for you and include Windows 8 “for free” if you choose to upgrade. With 20:20 hindsight, that is what I would do. Also, in my feeble opinion, the Tablet mode is only sensible with a touch screen computer. If you are buying a laptop, even with Windows 7, I suggest you get a touchscreen laptop to support Windows 8 when you are in the mood.
Windows 8 is stable and can be learned.
Gary
AlexThePalex
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GaryLaroff said:
That greatly illustrates my problem with the one-size-fits-all philosophy, every time my table saw rings, it friggin' hurts when I put it against my ear.
Kev
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Alex said:
I have the same problem if I'm ironing when the phone rings.
From the moment windows comes to life on a computer it says "starting windows" instead of "opening windows" ... if that fundamentally simple and lost opportunity to align the product name with a simple human related operation doesn't tell the full story of Microsoft's incompetence I really don't know what will !!!
I tried Windows 8 Professional for a while and what drove me bonkers was the "seamless" jumping back and forth between Metro-apps (the ipad-like ones) and the normal Desktop apps. You click a picture in your email and **wham** your thrown into the Metro picture viewer app. It takes pointing at the corner, waiting for the menu to appear, navigate to the main screen by a click and another click to get back to the desktop view from that darn picture viewer.
I found this jumping from one UI consept to another very disorienting even though I use iOS devices daily for my mobile computing needs and Windows 7 computers both at work and home for all other need.
Another issue that really put me off was that virtually every application that I own would have needed another upgrade to a newer version just to 'support' Windows 8 i.e. with a fully licensed computer with the likes of Adobe CS Suite in it adds really quickly to more money in license upgrades than the whole computer.
Ergo I ended up hunting down one of the last Windows 7 Home Premium to Ultimate Anytime upgrade kits from Amazon (not available as an online purchase in my region) to be able to utilize my new computers 32GB of RAM and have a known good computing environment with my currently just fine and licensed apps in Windows 7.
It is becoming really hard to get a Win7 computer or package anymore since M$ is pushing 8 with all its marketing might. Also of note is that only the Windows 8 PROFESSIONAL version is elegible for a version downgrade - the basic one isn't.
If Mac Pro's weren't so exorbitantly expensive I would have moved to a one for my photo & video editing needs but as it stands I still have to fool around with Windows and a self built machine. It is the last Windows computer in the house - all others have been replaced with Macs.
I found this jumping from one UI consept to another very disorienting even though I use iOS devices daily for my mobile computing needs and Windows 7 computers both at work and home for all other need.
Another issue that really put me off was that virtually every application that I own would have needed another upgrade to a newer version just to 'support' Windows 8 i.e. with a fully licensed computer with the likes of Adobe CS Suite in it adds really quickly to more money in license upgrades than the whole computer.
Ergo I ended up hunting down one of the last Windows 7 Home Premium to Ultimate Anytime upgrade kits from Amazon (not available as an online purchase in my region) to be able to utilize my new computers 32GB of RAM and have a known good computing environment with my currently just fine and licensed apps in Windows 7.
It is becoming really hard to get a Win7 computer or package anymore since M$ is pushing 8 with all its marketing might. Also of note is that only the Windows 8 PROFESSIONAL version is elegible for a version downgrade - the basic one isn't.
If Mac Pro's weren't so exorbitantly expensive I would have moved to a one for my photo & video editing needs but as it stands I still have to fool around with Windows and a self built machine. It is the last Windows computer in the house - all others have been replaced with Macs.
