Wooden Drawer Slides

[Sourwould]

So this is basically a continuation of my veneering threat, as I try to slowly leech out all the cabinet building information on this forum (bit by bit).

I'm building a cabinet to go under my MFT to drop the table height about 6 inches and put some storage under it (drawers). I'm planning to use a wooden drawer runner on the inside of the case and a dado on the drawer side. I've read that solid hardwood on solid hardwood is best for wooden runners.....buuuut, I've got baltic birch ply and that's what I want to use. I'm not sure how much this will affect the operation of the drawer.

I will be using a solid wood runner on the inside of the case, set in a dado. I want to use up some scrap for this and I've got choices. White oak, elm, walnut. Any opinions on what would be long lasting and make for smooth operation? I've also kind of going back and forth on the idea of putting a small strip of solid wood on the top side of the dado on the drawer itself, where it seems like most of the wear would be.

As far as hardwood on hardwood, does this have to do with the nature of hardwood vs softwood (like pitch)? Or is this because the softwood that's generally available is fast grown and course grained? I also have some scrap of old old pine and cypress (20+ growth rings per inch) that is very dense and heavy. The pine is heavier than some similar sized pieces of oak.

How do y'all do wooden drawer runners?

 

[Oldwood]

I don't use them at all. I think there is too many low cost full extension drawer guides on the market to use them anymore. I buy soft close accurides for under $20.00 and they are a pleasure to use and install.

Hope you don't mind my sort of off topic suggestion.

 

[B33tl3]

Wood drawer sides work fine. Any of the hardwoods mentioned will work. I generally use oak or maple and just add some wax to the parts from time to time.

 

[Cheese]

Wood drawer slides work fine.................

It's really just a matter of how long you need to use those slides. For wood on wood, expect to receive 40 to 60 years of service if they are waxed religiously.

Wood on wood will wear and the drawers will be more difficult to move if they aren't lubricated frequently. I have oak drawers and oak slides that are almost 70 years old. They still slide, however, because the wood has worn down to such a short height, the drawers don't want to return to their original height in the cabinetry when sliding the drawer closed, so you also need to lift the drawer into position.

Metal slides are so inexpensive today, there's really not a good reason to consider the wood on wood as an alternative unless you're really in to creating a time proper diorama. 

 

[Stone Message]

Rather than cutting a dado in the drawer sides to take the runners on your frame why not consider having the drawer bottoms sitting on the runners. All you then need to ensure is that the drawer front is a dash lower than the sides so that the runner is hidden.

The advantage of this is that the drawers are less likely to jam, construction is easier as there is no groove in the drawer sides and drawer fitting will be easier. The runners fitted to the frame can be any hardwood but I would choose mahogany or Sapele which I would seal with shellac and then sand and wax. Oak would be quite good as well. The drawer sides can be the ply that you have and if you are worried you can easily glue a thin strip of hard wood on the bottom edges of the sides.

As has been mentioned above, I would use drawer runners and Hafele are excellent.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[Sourwould]

I prefer a wooden drawer slide when it's well made. I'd like to use this shop cabinet as a practice run, so I'm going to build it like its furniture.

Peter,

With the construction method you describe, what keeps the drawer from "tipping" when it's pulled out? That's the feature of wooden drawer slides that I really don't like. I have a table here with dados in the sides of the drawer and the drawer has to be almost completely out before it tips. I actually chose to go with the dado so I could just copy everything off this drawer haha.

No mahogany or sapele here in North Carolina [tongue].  I try to only use local species, unless it's salvage. Though I do realize this leaves me with a lot more choices than one would have in England.

 

[Cheese]

I prefer a wooden drawer slide when it's well made. I'd like to use this shop cabinet as a practice run, so I'm going to build it like its furniture.

FWIW...this is the result of a solid oak drawer rubbing on a solid oak face frame for almost 70 years. That's 1/32" of material thats been worn down. What you can't see is the bottom of the drawer has also been worn down at least 1/32". So the drawer each time it's closed, needs to be lifted 1/16" vertically before it can be properly positioned.  [crying]

[attachimg=1]

 

[Oldwood]

The under mount guides like the Blum Movento are a good option for furniture. I don't think there are too many options to get full extension on wood guides. Wood guides of course do work but the utility of them compared to the hardware available these days make them a non starter for me.

We have made drawers 40" wide that when full can be pulled out with ease and soft close with a slight push. I have replaced the 3/4 extension guides in my shop with full extension. Once you become accustomed to having full access to the drawer it is hard to go back.

I built kitchens for a designer who would design drawers behind a pair of doors. I expressed my dislike for this option because it was a huge inconvenience to open 2 doors fully just to pull out a drawer. His response was it looked better in his portfolio pictures. I think ease of use is a very important part of the design and in a shop maybe more important.

It is the old debate about form over function or visa versa.

It of course is your decision what is more important to you.
 

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Like cheese said, hardwood on hardwood runners will last 40-60 years, probably way longer than that MFT will be used.

I would avoid plywood runners, though.  I could imagine pretty rapid wear and tear as layers of veneer peel off.  Use a wood runner and your idea about a wood insert in the dado sounds good, too.

The great thing about wood runners is you can make them a wee bit large and get to a perfect fit with a block plane.

Having said all this, buying runners would save a lot of time.....

 

[jeffinsgf]

With the construction method you describe, what keeps the drawer from "tipping" when it's pulled out? That's the feature of wooden drawer slides that I really don't like. I have a table here with dados in the sides of the drawer and the drawer has to be almost completely out before it tips. I actually chose to go with the dado so I could just copy everything off this drawer haha.

I'm not Peter, but I'll chime in on the subject. A similar runner above the drawer side prevents tipping. In a perfect world, for a stack of drawers, the base runner of one is the top runner of the next drawer down. If your drawer sides extend a few inches beyond the back of the drawer, you have the net effect of a full extension.

There is great satisfaction in designing and building drawers that don't need hardware. I wouldn't do it for a kitchen, where the drawers receive constant use (and possible abuse), but I personally prefer them in furniture.

I have a desk I built when I was about 25. The runners are cherry on cherry...wide dadoed cherry boards set into a dado in poplar drawer sides. As the desk approaches 40 years old, the drawers all slide perfectly, don't rack and don't tip. The bottom drawers on both sides have hanging Pendaflex files in them that are far past overloaded. I haven't touched the slides with any sort of treatment at all since they were waxed and installed 38 years ago.

 

[bertv]

Maybe having some HDPE-tape on the touching surfaces would help? Or strips of it (repurposed cutting boards)?

 

[Svar]

With the construction method you describe, what keeps the drawer from "tipping" when it's pulled out? That's the feature of wooden drawer slides that I really don't like. I have a table here with dados in the sides of the drawer and the drawer has to be almost completely out before it tips. I actually chose to go with the dado so I could just copy everything off this drawer haha.

I'm not Peter, but I'll chime in on the subject. A similar runner above the drawer side prevents tipping. In a perfect world, for a stack of drawers, the base runner of one is the top runner of the next drawer down. If your drawer sides extend a few inches beyond the back of the drawer, you have the net effect of a full extension.

A dado type runner is better than what Peter described, because it allows further pullout before the drawer starts to tip and jam.
If you drawer sides extend a few inches beyond the back of the drawer as you describe, you sacrifice drawer volume for an illusion of full extension.
Consider solid UHMW plastic runners instead of hardwood. It will be easier on dados in plywood.
Hardwood on hardwood runners will typically last a lifetime, and are the best way to utilize internal volume. However, they are not full extension. For most applications it is a deal breaker.

 

[jeffinsgf]

A dado type runner is better than what Peter described, because it allows further pullout before the drawer starts to tip and jam.
If you drawer sides extend a few inches beyond the back of the drawer as you describe, you sacrifice drawer volume for an illusion of full extension.
Consider solid UHMW plastic runners instead of hardwood. It will be easier on dados in plywood.
Hardwood on hardwood runners will typically last a lifetime, and are the best way to utilize internal volume. However, they are not full extension. For most applications it is a deal breaker.

I always considered "full extension" to mean nothing could hide in the back of the drawer...not that I might be wasting a couple of inches of carcase depth. The specific project where I used this method was a stack of drawers for hundreds of colors of embroidery thread. The back row of compartments was fully accessible without the drawer sagging simply by making the drawer sides a couple inches longer and the cabinet a couple inches deeper. It was designed to look like an antique and in my opinion metal slides would have damaged the appeal.

 

[Svar]

I always considered "full extension" to mean nothing could hide in the back of the drawer...not that I might be wasting a couple of inches of carcase depth.

Then you could take a regular 3/4 extension drawer, put a partition at the back (so you don't use the last few inches) and call it full extension?

 

[jeffinsgf]

Sure...it wouldn't make sense (since full extension slides exist), but you wouldn't have that annoying 3 or 4 inches that was the genesis of full extension slides in the first place.

And, by the way, you wouldn't have to put in a partition...just a short drawer on a longer slide.  [blink]

I'm not arguing against full extension slides...I love them and use them and wouldn't put anything else in cabinetry. But in my opinion, furniture is different and there's nothing wrong with designing wood on wood drawers and designing them to do what you want.

 

[Sourwould]

I'd rather not debate metal v wood drawer slides.

Wood on wood will last long enough for me. I hate plastic.

Personally, I've never cared about full extension. Lived in lots of old houses with wooden drawer slides in the kitchen, never bothered me.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Getting back to your original question...
I would not shy away from using Baltic birch plywood to make drawer sides and/or runners. For shop furniture, I think it would be fine and would probably do the same thing in the same situation. I might not do that on a piece of furniture for my living room, but I sure would for something in the shop.

 

[Sourwould]

Thanks Jeff.

I think I will still go with a wood runner since I think it will be easier to fine tune the fit. Shouldn't take too long or be too much trouble to mill up some strips of oak.