Chainring
Member
Woohoo, that's good news! I've had my pre-order in on the WP drill guide for quite a while. The sale price was too tempting.
Woodpeckers Auto-Line Drill Guide
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mino
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I have one of these from Protool times of carpentry drills.
Not the same but close.
Irreplaceable for precise holes in the middle of a big flat piece or finished piece etc. They can replace a drill press on those occasional and light tasks too.
But for work where repeatability, low speed - high torque, or stability are needed a drill press is a drill press.
I would say one should seek both as neither is a substitute for other. A Grill Guide is probably better to get first. It can do the job of a Press, just worse.
Press cannot do some tasks you can do with a Drill guide while most tasks a press can do you can do with the drill guide. Just with less precision though better than freehand.
Not the same but close.
Irreplaceable for precise holes in the middle of a big flat piece or finished piece etc. They can replace a drill press on those occasional and light tasks too.
But for work where repeatability, low speed - high torque, or stability are needed a drill press is a drill press.
I would say one should seek both as neither is a substitute for other. A Grill Guide is probably better to get first. It can do the job of a Press, just worse.
Press cannot do some tasks you can do with a Drill guide while most tasks a press can do you can do with the drill guide. Just with less precision though better than freehand.
Viper Bugloss
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There seem to be a lot off copies of the Auto-Line Drill Guide advertised, although they are look like the same item at about the 10th of the price of the genuine Woodpecker item. I am in the UK and I ordered one from Amazon, not directly from them but through their marketplace. It was supposedly being shipped from China but never arrived. I complained to Amazon and they refunded my money. I wonder if these items actually exist. Has anyone actually managed to get one?
Watch the credit card you used for that purchase very closely.
Setting aside the "too good to be true" nature of what your raise, even a cursory review of the particulars surrounding those obviously fraudulent listings points to the fact that what will arrive in the post (if anything arrives at all) will bear no resemblance to the real thing.
That said, I've got some ocean front property in Nebraska you might interested in.
That said, I've got some ocean front property in Nebraska you might interested in.
jeffinsgf said:
Good advice. In future, use Paypal when dealing with unknown vendors to hide your credit card info.
No experience with this particular copycat item, but based on feedback by buyers many patent-infringed (?) or copies of genuine tools do come through on the Amazon, eBay, Baboo (sp. ?), and Chinese online sites. I wouldn't be surprised if someone eventually bought and received the Chinese version of the WP drill guide later. Their manufacturing base is wide and deep, and the low tech drill guide is no hurdle to them for sure. Quality? Can't tell until someone has one and reports back.
We just had a (non)customer send us pictures of his "genuine Woodpeckers adjustable square". The head is rubberized plastic.
At least he got something. Most from the recent rash of pirate sites are just getting their credit cards ripped off.
At least he got something. Most from the recent rash of pirate sites are just getting their credit cards ripped off.
I'm sincerely hoping that with the current government appetite for cracking down on Big Tech, they start imposing some liability on Amazon for failing to police these kinds of listings/vet its sellers. The "we're just a matchmaking tool, not a retailer" excuse has worn quite thin and it's a major harm to small businesses making innovative products, few of whom can afford to hire staff to police marketplace sites for fraudulent listings 24/7.
Viper Bugloss said:
The same here. Curiosity got the better of me! Even the advertising pictures show the Woodpecker label. What a blatant breach of copyright. I wonder why Amazon hasn't deleted this product as they must have had complaints.
https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/produc...1&pd_rd_w=o1Qd7&pd_rd_wg=sA5EI&ref_=pd_gw_unk
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jussi said:
Agree. It should tell Amazon something too, but they seem happy to sell counterfeit goods, or at least those that infringe on US patent law in the USA.
I'm sure Amazon has some excuse that lets them sleep at night, but it doesn't change the fact that they enable those counterfeiters by allowing those knock-off products to be sold here. Now if WP and other original manufacturers don't have patents then I guess the sellers of those knockoff products are not breaking any laws. And given the price of obtaining a patent maybe it's not worth it for the originator of a tool to obtain a patent. I don't know. It just rubs me the wrong way when I see those knockoff products being sold.
Viper Bugloss
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Initially I saw this advertised on Instagram. I was curious but suspicious which is why I bought through Amazon, who refunded my money. I number of listings actual describe it as a Woodpeckers product and there is US based company who use the Woodpeckers video. It looks a very useful product and much more portable than a drill press but if I am not prepared to pay the price then I shall have to go without. I have used a simple guide block to make sure my holes are straight which is effective but not as accurate.
hdv
Member
[member=60461]Bob D.[/member] : hear, hear. I feel exactly the same way!
That's the main reason I don't buy off Alibaba or Banggood. There's so many knock-offs on there that you never know when you'll get something decent or some fake product. As a matter of fact, last time I looked over the shoulder of a friend it seemed to me it was almost all knock-offs or commodity products. Reviews aren't any use either (however, the same goes for Amazon). And those platforms don't care to hold their sellers to whatever standard it is they say they are upholding. One thing I have to give them is that they do not make a fuss about returns or giving your money back. That same friend I mentioned had a product delivered (don't even know from which platform) that was damaged. He sent them a photo and without any further questions got the choice between a refund or a replacement. But still...
I'd rather safe some more and buy the genuine article, or buy nothing at all. As a Dutchman I know how to be frugal, be cheap or safe money. But as a business owner and author I also know how much time it takes to invent and produce or write something.
That's the main reason I don't buy off Alibaba or Banggood. There's so many knock-offs on there that you never know when you'll get something decent or some fake product. As a matter of fact, last time I looked over the shoulder of a friend it seemed to me it was almost all knock-offs or commodity products. Reviews aren't any use either (however, the same goes for Amazon). And those platforms don't care to hold their sellers to whatever standard it is they say they are upholding. One thing I have to give them is that they do not make a fuss about returns or giving your money back. That same friend I mentioned had a product delivered (don't even know from which platform) that was damaged. He sent them a photo and without any further questions got the choice between a refund or a replacement. But still...
I'd rather safe some more and buy the genuine article, or buy nothing at all. As a Dutchman I know how to be frugal, be cheap or safe money. But as a business owner and author I also know how much time it takes to invent and produce or write something.
Amazon and eBay aren't where I usually shop for my woodworking stuff, except in emergency.
In a recent project, I used a plug cutter (carbide-tipped) from China bought at a reputable local vendor. Excellent results. Then at a later stage, I realized I also needed a smaller cutter, which wouldn't be available until September. So Amazon was my quick option, but only non-carbide cutters (also from China) were offered.
Two of them arrived in damaged condition. I could have returned them, but my project couldn't wait anymore. The cutting was so slow, and the result so poor.
In a recent project, I used a plug cutter (carbide-tipped) from China bought at a reputable local vendor. Excellent results. Then at a later stage, I realized I also needed a smaller cutter, which wouldn't be available until September. So Amazon was my quick option, but only non-carbide cutters (also from China) were offered.
Two of them arrived in damaged condition. I could have returned them, but my project couldn't wait anymore. The cutting was so slow, and the result so poor.
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I have been the victim of a product rip off so I can speak with a different view on the subject. I understand that members here seem to be saying rip off and piracy but the world has always worked like that otherwise you would not have choices in just about everything you buy Yes, I invented a product fully patented and had that ripped off and sold world wide but I was naive to expect that the patent would protect me, patents are for big companies such as Festool who can fund the protection they need, witness the Domino but not the track saw because Festool were to some extent productionising and improving a previously used method.
If a company such as Woodpeckers or anyone else brings a product to market they have a choice, let the product be copied or protect it and so far they have shown no will to do anything along those lines and us crying about product rip offs ignores that fact. Simply if you or I sell or introduce a product to market without protection and in some cases with it don't think it won't get copied, WP obviously have accepted the fact that it will and rely on being first in and having a lead time as well as a better made item. Everything we buy is taken from someone's (usually) innovation but we generally don't see that and just enjoy using it.
If a company such as Woodpeckers or anyone else brings a product to market they have a choice, let the product be copied or protect it and so far they have shown no will to do anything along those lines and us crying about product rip offs ignores that fact. Simply if you or I sell or introduce a product to market without protection and in some cases with it don't think it won't get copied, WP obviously have accepted the fact that it will and rely on being first in and having a lead time as well as a better made item. Everything we buy is taken from someone's (usually) innovation but we generally don't see that and just enjoy using it.
Dr. P. Venkman
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I’m not an IP attorney, and I haven’t scrutinized the products, but there’s a decent chance that these “fake” products aren’t infringing on any patents, anyway. They may well be, but if they cared about such things, I’m sure they could avoid it pretty easily.
Woodpecker’s drill guide contains cool and thoughtful features like a tapered shaft for the depth stop. These are likely simple junk that skip the best features of the real version, and you can’t patent a spring wrapped around a drill guide shaft (I don’t think).
What they are doing is passing their product off as the original and outright stealing Woodpecker’s artwork, aesthetic, and writing. It’s more like copyright infringement and counterfeit goods, than patent infringement, so far as I can tell.
What happened to you sounds infuriating, but these drill guides feel more akin to a fake Rolex to me.
Woodpecker’s drill guide contains cool and thoughtful features like a tapered shaft for the depth stop. These are likely simple junk that skip the best features of the real version, and you can’t patent a spring wrapped around a drill guide shaft (I don’t think).
What they are doing is passing their product off as the original and outright stealing Woodpecker’s artwork, aesthetic, and writing. It’s more like copyright infringement and counterfeit goods, than patent infringement, so far as I can tell.
What happened to you sounds infuriating, but these drill guides feel more akin to a fake Rolex to me.
The Auto-Line Drill Guide is patented and Woodpeckers is spending a mind-numbing amount of money trying to stop the piracy and fraud. One problem is that the crooks have become very sophisticated and Amazon, Facebook and eBay, while not expressly complicit, are not doing very much to stop the problem. They're getting paid for advertising and not paying much attention to what is being advertised. As fast as we complain to them, one site is taken down and another one with an ever-so-slightly different name and address pops up.
I agree with Dr. Venkman. It's one thing to make a poor copy of a product and put it out on the market in the same color and similar (but not identical) trade dress. That's Banggood. It's quite another to promise an authentic product and deliver nothing or something not even the slightest bit close to the authentic product. It is, as Dr. Venkman said, more a matter of copyright infringement than patent violation.
I agree with Dr. Venkman. It's one thing to make a poor copy of a product and put it out on the market in the same color and similar (but not identical) trade dress. That's Banggood. It's quite another to promise an authentic product and deliver nothing or something not even the slightest bit close to the authentic product. It is, as Dr. Venkman said, more a matter of copyright infringement than patent violation.
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"WP obviously have accepted the fact that it will and rely on being first in and having a lead time as well as a better made item."
They may acknowledge the condition, but I doubt they have accepted it, which to me implies they are OK with the situation and I doubt that's the case.
I think WP and others like them also depend on us, the end user/purchaser of their product to recognize a knockoff when we come across it and then do the right thing. If there was no one buying those knockoff products then there would be no incentive to produce counterfeit goods and they would die off.
No different than the drug trade.
They may acknowledge the condition, but I doubt they have accepted it, which to me implies they are OK with the situation and I doubt that's the case.
I think WP and others like them also depend on us, the end user/purchaser of their product to recognize a knockoff when we come across it and then do the right thing. If there was no one buying those knockoff products then there would be no incentive to produce counterfeit goods and they would die off.
No different than the drug trade.
Everything we buy is a knock off, even the motor car, cordless drills etc. Someone came to market with the first one and it was copied. We the buyer created the market for the copy to be made at a cheaper price but everyone seems to ignore that little fact. Searching for lower prices but not accepting that the domestic work force won't work for less money = cheap manufacturing. Who is to blame for that, the manufacturer wanting to compete or the buyer wanting to buy cheaper or even the worker for wanting a living wage? How many people here have maligned WP or Festool for their prices?
Viper Bugloss
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I am still wondering if these knock off drill guides actually exist, or if it is simply a scam. I ordered one from Amazon in the UK over a month ago but never received it. I complained to Amazon and they refunded my money. Since then I have received numerous emails from Amazon suggesting this item from a number of different sellers. Today, I had a long online chat with Amazon UK about this. There response was that if the goods were not as advertised then the money would be refunded but they seemed unable to grasp my point that the goods might not actually exist.
If the seller has just been launched or has only a few feedback (and none is about woodworking items), I don't think the advertised item is in its custody. If the item is to be shipped by Amazon Fulfillment (warehouse) rather than from China, then it has a 99.99% chance of being legit. I'd rather deal with a seller with weak feedback record than one with none -- whether on Amazon or on eBay.
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