Woodpeckers is manufacturing/grinding their own carbide spiral router bits.

[festal]

The lift has about 3-3/8" of travel and a 2" cut length bit is 4" long...about 5/8" of which belongs in the collet. My guess is, your router motor is clamped too high in the lift...mine was until 10 minutes ago. I had experienced the same issue yesterday, and your message prompted me to take a look. At the top of the travel, the collet was completely out of the table...handy for bit changes if you don't have offset wrenches, but mine was at least a half inch higher than it needed to be for straight wrench changes. I use offset wrenches, so I reset the motor so the collet is just flush with the top of the plate at the top of the travel. If you have straight wrenches, set your motor so the lower nut is just at table height at the top of the travel. Then you'll be able to bury just about any bit made.

Ah that explains that.  I was following the video that you posted about setup.  Whats the correct procedure to reset it?  Do you sell offset er20 wrenches?  i saw that they are included with the spinrite motor.  I haven't found offset wrenches for er20 for sale for some reason.

 

[luvmytoolz]

RE:  8 mm shaft router bit.

Maybe this will help.  From Rockler.  1/2” to 8mm collet adapter. 

It apparently allows you to use any 1/2” collet and any 8mm bit.
https://www.rockler.com/1-2-to-8mm-collet-adapter

Those sleeve reducers are absolutely horrible to use. They require you to tighten the cutter like Hercules to compress the sleeve and grip the router bit securely. And they have a nasty habit of drifting under load. I would recommend avoiding them like the plague.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Ah that explains that.  I was following the video that you posted about setup.  Whats the correct procedure to reset it?  Do you sell offset er20 wrenches?  i saw that they are included with the spinrite motor.  I haven't found offset wrenches for er20 for sale for some reason.

I didn't even think about long cut length and bottoming out until it happened to me on Monday, then you asked about it Tuesday. Just loosen the set screws that lock the router and move it down. If you adjust it until the lower nut of the collet is just above the table, you should still be able to bury a 2" cut length. What router are you using with an ER-20 collet?

 

[festal]

Ah that explains that.  I was following the video that you posted about setup.  Whats the correct procedure to reset it?  Do you sell offset er20 wrenches?  i saw that they are included with the spinrite motor.  I haven't found offset wrenches for er20 for sale for some reason.

I didn't even think about long cut length and bottoming out until it happened to me on Monday, then you asked about it Tuesday. Just loosen the set screws that lock the router and move it down. If you adjust it until the lower nut of the collet is just above the table, you should still be able to bury a 2" cut length. What router are you using with an ER-20 collet?

I'm using the new Jessem one

 

[rvieceli]

[member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member] hey Jeff the next time you are talking to production people please tell them a nice touch on the router bits would be an engraved line for minimum insertion for the shank.

Thanks

Ron

 

[Packard]

[member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member] hey Jeff the next time you are talking to production people please tell them a nice touch on the router bits would be an engraved line for minimum insertion for the shank.

Thanks

Ron

Hmm.  I’m pretty sure that I always insert my router bits until the shaft bottoms out.  I thought everyone did.  Why would you not?

Maybe if your router does not have enough travel and the collet gets in the way?  I never had that happen though.

 

[jeffinsgf]

[member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member] hey Jeff the next time you are talking to production people please tell them a nice touch on the router bits would be an engraved line for minimum insertion for the shank.

Thanks

Ron

I know that's a popular trend, but it is a little misleading. The "proper" insertion depends a great deal on the collet. True minimum insertion is the point where the shank just barely protrudes out of the taper of the collet. That's different on a Festool collet than it is on a Makita collet, for example. Festool collets have a nice long taper. Makita's are short and squat. If you put them in to the same depth, you're either deeper than necessary on the Makita or too short on the Festool. And both of those are different than an E-20. Even that is a little too simplistic, because the Festool taper extends beyond the gripping area (look up inside the collet and you'll see what I mean).

If I'm trying to max out the reach of a bit, I'll remove the collet completely and inspect it to get the shank fully in the grip of the collet, then install collet, bit and nut all at once.

 

[Cheese]

Hmm.  I’m pretty sure that I always insert my router bits until the shaft bottoms out.  I thought everyone did.  Why would you not?

You don't want to do that...if the shaft is already bottomed out in the collet, then as you tighten the collet, it starts to grip the router bit shaft and attempts to move the shaft down as you continue to tighten the threads on the collet. At some point the collet nut will seem to be tight but that's because the router bit is already bottomed out and will not allow the collet nut to be properly tightened.

Some router bit manufacturers recommend inserting a small rubber ball inside the collet so that the rubber ball compresses and allows the router bit to move downwards and that allows the collet to be tightened properly.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member] hey Jeff the next time you are talking to production people please tell them a nice touch on the router bits would be an engraved line for minimum insertion for the shank.

Thanks

Ron

Hmm.  I’m pretty sure that I always insert my router bits until the shaft bottoms out.  I thought everyone did.  Why would you not?

Maybe if your router does not have enough travel and the collet gets in the way?  I never had that happen though.

That is one of those "they say" types of things. According to that line of thinking, when the bit is inserted to the point of bottoming out there is a gripping/binding issue. The theory is that the collet has already gripped the shank, but the taper is still trying to pull down, but it can't because the bit is bottomed out. This forces the bit to slip some as it is getting tightened. The forces are opposing. Supposedly, this has the potential for the bit to not really tighten properly?
I have also heard of people putting a small rubber O-ring under the collet, for the bit to bottom out onto. This gives it some place to compress into.

Typing at the same time as Cheese.... [unsure]

 

[rmwarren]

IMO this is best a "learned/proper technique" kinda thing. Insert the bit fully, then retract a couple MM and tighten. Like checking to see that the chamber is empty, it becomes muscle memory.

Not claiming I always do it, seems like I need a pre-flight checklist and someone to back me up for every simple thing these days. Old-timers...

RMW

 

[Michael Kellough]

I do the above with any bit where depth of cut is not the priority.
If maximum depth is needed I do what  Jeff does.

 

[Cheese]

I do the above with any bit where depth of cut is not the priority.
If maximum depth is needed I do what  Jeff does.

Ya I'll just add to Michael's process, if it's a non-critical depth cut then just do what you need to make the cut. However, if the depth of cut, router bit length and minimum router bit insertion depth all collide to produce a depth of cut that's problematic, then you need to take precautions to protect yourself and the part you're routing.

This is especially a problem in routing aluminum where if the router bit is not adequately secured, the harmonic vibration will loosen the collet and the router bit then becomes a missile.

 

[Mini Me]

I am sure the depth of the router bit shaft in the collet was discussed here not all that long ago.

 

[Vondawg]

I’ve always followed the same insertion routine as RMW and Cheese for some 50 yrs

 

[jeffinsgf]

Typing at the same time as Cheese.... [unsure]

Spooky. Right down to the rubber baby buggy bumper.  [big grin]

 

[jeffinsgf]

Another point on Richard's method, which is what I do when maximum reach is not an issue.

Most router bits have a taper as the body transitions from the shank to the body. Full insertion can often mean the taper has entered the collet, and that is not a good thing.

My routine is to drop it in, pull it out a little, finger tighten the collet, verify that I can see some of the straight shank, put the wrench(es) to it.

It's probably an over-abundance of caution, but on solid carbide bits I'm always careful to confirm that the end of the flute does not enter the collet.

 

[Packard]

Hmm.  I’m pretty sure that I always insert my router bits until the shaft bottoms out.  I thought everyone did.  Why would you not?

You don't want to do that...if the shaft is already bottomed out in the collet, then as you tighten the collet, it starts to grip the router bit shaft and attempts to move the shaft down as you continue to tighten the threads on the collet. At some point the collet nut will seem to be tight but that's because the router bit is already bottomed out and will not allow the collet nut to be properly tightened.

Some router bit manufacturers recommend inserting a small rubber ball inside the collet so that the rubber ball compresses and allows the router bit to move downwards and that allows the collet to be tightened properly.

My first dovetail jig (Sears) suggested full insertion.  Their bits were calibrated to only require one adjustment if that were done.  Both the straight bit and dovetail bit would be done with one setup that way.  It seemed to work on my router, but a small improvement in joint fit could sometimes be improved with further adjustment.

The locking miter bit set I have only requires one setup if I insert all the way. 

I will consider the change, but it sounds more like an old wives’ tale than anything else.  I’ve been doing it this way for 30 years and it has not created a any issues.

 

[tjbnwi]

I put an O-ring in the router shaft that works as both a stop and a tightening cushion for the router bit.

Tom

 

[Cheese]

I will consider the change, but it sounds more like an old wives’ tale than anything else. I’ve been doing it this way for 30 years and it has not created a any issues.

That sounds like a quote by the owner of a Model T who religiously hand started his car every day until it backfired once and it broke his arm...it just takes once to learn a lesson.  [smile]

It took me a while to find this item but this is the router bit manufacturer/retailer I was talking about. Check out the red arrow. Their typography, not mine.

[attachimg=1]

 

[rvieceli]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] Also worth mentioning: If you have more than one router and keep a particular router bit installed in each router on a mostly permanent basis, make a habit of checking to make sure the collet is still tight before each session. The collet can (and does) loosen up over time. Loosen the collet nut, check to make sure the bit is inserted properly and retighten.

An extra bit of effort, but significantly less time than reworking a mission critical part.

Don't ask how I know.  [eek]

Ron