Woodpecker's Parallel Guide System One Time Tool

[Slartibartfass]

I did a quick test yesterday myself and noticed the same. The wedge angle is not high enough (angle as well as physical height) to allow proper seating before tightening.... In my opinion a design flaw that hopefully Woodpecker will resolve quickly.

[member=34727]Zeusman[/member] please take a look....

 

[blakjak220]

[member=28617]blakjak220[/member]
I took one of the Woodpeckers guide legs and attached it to the Festool rail, lightly tightening one of the screws down so that it was able to center itself, I then lightly tightened the second screw to again allow it to center itself. At this time there was still some movement in the attachment mechanism but I wanted to allow both fasteners to properly allow the beveled part of the attachment to properly find home (center itself). While both screws were still somewhat loose and the beveled part of the attachment could still center itself, I then snugged up both screws to find out how well it centered itself on the Festool rail. After 7 different attempts, these photos outline the results.

In every instance, I loosened both screws, repeated the procedure and then followed the tightening schedule outlined above.

In the first 4 attempts, the guide leg biased itself towards the front of the Festool rail, in the next 2 attempts the guide rail biased itself towards the rear of the Festool rail and it was only on the final attempt that the guide leg actually centered itself on the Festool rail.

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At this point I find the results not random enough and think there might be some operator error on my part that potentially skewed the outcome. I'll bring the assembly outside tomorrow and try it again on a flat table and in the light of day.

It is interesting however, that the self centering feature doesn't appear to function reliably and that could be because of the angle of the chamfers. I noted previously an angle of 20-25 degrees but would expect a chamfer angle of 60-70 degrees would more easily self align itself in the Festool rail, however that would also increase the probability of wedging itself into the Festool rail and possibly distorting it .

Those were pretty much my results as well... it's not user error. Although when I was able to balance it in the middle and get it to tighten down in place, it didn't take much moving around for it to slip to one side. We'll have to wait and see how Woodpecker wants to handle it, but it's definitely not acceptable on a premium product at a premium price point.

 

[Slartibartfass]

I think the issue is the fact that the wedge does not go up all the way to the bottom of the plate. Instead you have a square angle that changes into the wedge and the height of the wedge is not enough to center prior to fastening....

 

[crampedshop]

I have the same issue. Is there anyone that has a received a set and does not have the problem? Just wondering if there is some amount of variability in the extrusion (the rail). Has anyone contacted Woodpecker CS?

 

[blakjak220]

I have the same issue. Is there anyone that has a received a set and does not have the problem? Just wondering if there is some amount of variability in the extrusion (the rail). Has anyone contacted Woodpecker CS?

My guess is that everyone will have the same problem... Woodpecker is nothing if not consistent in their machining. I did contact them thru their cust service email yesterday. I got a response today informing that the wedge shape was designed like that to "self-center" the bracket (basiclally the same explanation as the Woodpecker engineer gave above in this thread). I responded informing them that the problem was the design itself and that several other people had reported the problem and included the link to this thread so they could also review the above pictures. They responded again and said they were forwarding my email to the "person who designed the tool" and that he would respond today sometime. I'll update here when I get that response.

 

[user0317]

So today I received an unexpected box from Woodpeckers, containing replacement track for the first 2 sections of each parallel guide.  Since I wasn't expecting anything from them, I called Woodpeck and they explained that there was a laser engraving problem on the first run of these parts, and they were off about 1/16th of an inch (I have the imperial set).  I haven't used my set yet, so I can't confirm.

 

[blakjak220]

So today I received an unexpected box from Woodpeckers, containing replacement track for the first 2 sections of each parallel guide.  Since I wasn't expecting anything from them, I called Woodpeck and they explained that there was a laser engraving problem on the first run of these parts, and they were off about 1/16th of an inch (I have the imperial set).  I haven't used my set yet, so I can't confirm.

Yeah I think everyone got/will get new tracks. If you compare the scales on the side of the new track (the scale used for narrow cuts) to the old one you'll see that they are off a little. I calibrated my guides with the original scale but didn't make any narrow cuts so it worked fine.

Just FYI, Wayne from Woodpecker (I assume the same Wayne that commented in this thread) responded to my email with this:
    "This is Wayne. I’m one of the tool designers here at Woodpeckers. I’m going to try to help you out. I understand what you are saying but try this. Attach the Body Bracket to a section of Woodpecker track and loosely tighten it. This should help you out in keeping the Body Bracket parallel. Then slide the Body Bracket onto the Festool track and also lightly tighten the screws. When the bracket gets centered onto the saw track them begin to tighten all the way. This should take care of the issue you are having."

I had already tried this exact thing more than a few times over the last week and advised him that it wasn't working as described. Every time I begin to tighten the screws past the point where they are just tight enough to feel pressure then the bracket slips forward or backward in the groove.

 

[Scott in Bend Oregon]

Out of curiosity, I measured seven different guide rails I have in the shop.  The top channel widths measured 8.30 mm to 8.50 mm.

8.30  two rails
8.35  one
8.40  two
8.45  one
8.50  one

I'm not sure if that range of values has an affect on the centering problem.  But, I wonder if the Woodpeckers designer(s) took that amount of guide rail channel variation into consideration?

I have not received my set yet and I am not as excited about getting it as I was before.  I hope that WP will soon get out of the denial mode and get it corrected.

 

[blakjak220]

Out of curiosity, I measured seven different guide rails I have in the shop.  The top channel widths measured 8.30 mm to 8.50 mm.

8.30  two rails
8.35  one
8.40  two
8.45  one
8.50  one

I'm not sure if that range of values has an affect on the centering problem.  But, I wonder if the Woodpeckers designer(s) took that amount of guide rail channel variation into consideration?

I have not received my set yet and I am not as excited about getting it as I was before.  I hope that WP will soon get out of the denial mode and get it corrected.

I have 3 rails... 2 of them were exactly 8.35 and the other was 8.32... I tried the bracket on all three but it didn't make a difference. Like you said, I could see how it might work if the channel was wider and the wedge could sit down in there instead of rocking on the top.

 

[Cheese]

I took the Festool rail and the Woodpeckers guides and laid them on a 40" wide table outside. Sliding the guides onto the Festool rail, it was necessary to roughly center the guides by feel and then tightening each screw down slowly and then the guides did indeed stay centered in the Festool rail slot. I tried this about 8 times and the guides would always center themselves on the Festool rail. It's kind of futzy but it does work. [smile]

What's mandatory, is that the Festool rail and at least 30" of each Woodpeckers guide (if all sections of the Woodpeckers guide are attached) is fully supported. Otherwise any weight of the Woodpeckers guide that is not supported on the table, will pivot the Woodpeckers guide up and off of the Festool rail and make the self-centering function very difficult.  [scratch chin]

Bottom line is, that it does work but it can be tweaky if the rail and guides are not fully supported on a wide flat surface.

 

[blakjak220]

I took the Festool rail and the Woodpeckers guides and laid them on a 40" wide table outside. Sliding the guides onto the Festool rail, it was necessary to roughly center the guides by feel and then tightening each screw down slowly and then the guides did indeed stay centered in the Festool rail slot. I tried this about 8 times and the guides would always center themselves on the Festool rail. It's kind of futzy but it does work. [smile]

What's mandatory, is that the Festool rail and at least 30" of each Woodpeckers guide (if all sections of the Woodpeckers guide are attached) is fully supported. Otherwise any weight of the Woodpeckers guide that is not supported on the table, will pivot the Woodpeckers guide up and off of the Festool rail and make the self-centering function very difficult.  [scratch chin]

Bottom line is, that it does work but it can be tweaky if the rail and guides are not fully supported on a wide flat surface.

Hhmm... the first time I set mine up I had it all sitting on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. I could get them lightly tightened down and mostly centered - but, as repeatable cuts are the whole point, every time I move them at all either A: the screws aren't tight enough to keep them centered or B: I tighten the scews up some more and they slip out of alignment - this is all while the whole set up is supported from end to end. I'm going to try it again when I get back to the home just to be as thorough as I can.
Cheese, were you able to move the set up around (like you would if you were making the same cut over and over) and have the brackets stay centered?

 

[jimbo51]

I just did a little testing with the set I received today. I used a 1400mm LR32 rail which I bought within the last year so I know the rail is of recent vintage. Somewhere I have a rail which was scarred a few years ago and I will also test with that rail to see if there are any differences.

I attached the bracket to the Woodpecker rail and then attached the bracket to the Festool rail. When both rails are on a flat surface (MFT and a plywood cabinet) the wedge on the bracket self aligns. I used a single Woodpecker rail section and all sections attached together and got the same self alignment. I did a bit of jiggle testing and the assembly seemed stable. I only tried with one Woodpecker rail.

I will mention that with both Woodpecker rails attached, the whole assembly will be a  bit awkward to handle based on weight and size. Concerned about this awkwardness factor, I did a bit more stability testing. I found that the bracket is sensitive to leveraging motion which might occur if the end of the Woodpecker rail hit the sheet of plywood first. In this case, the bracket did become misaligned.

However, as soon as I placed the whole assembly of the level surface and pressed down, the bracket more or less came back into alignment. I can also mention that if the bracket is tipped slightly forward, the front edge of the Festool rail is raised very slightly. The weight of the TS 55 alone is almost enough to bring the rail down onto the surface. A very slight downward pressure is enough to bring the rail totally flush with the surface.

If the bracket is tilted back, the back edge of the Festool rail will rise up at a much more severe angle which is not readily adjusted by pushing down on the rail. However, the tilt can be revised by pivoting the bracket the opposite direction so that it once again more or less aligns.

I can see that if the Festool rail gap is smaller than on the rail I used, the alignment could be an issue. I would suggest attempting to tighten the bracket down with the front tilt to see if that is stable. If so, then the whole system should be usable in that configuration as I noted above.

It does appear that the bottom wedge on the bracket is a bit too fussy. My other pet peeve with these systems is the use of hex head screws and Phillips screws. Is it so hard to source hex head screws? If both were hex head, then Woodpecker could splurge and throw in a couple of dollars worth of hex wrenches in the kit.     

 

[lunchman]

Received my metric set today. I haven't used it yet, simply set it up on my shorter guide rail and am not noticing the attachment issue of the main body brackets to the rail that others have noticed. I'll make use of these this weekend and see how it goes. I'll try my 8+ ft guide rail as well for fit.

However, the question comes up re: calibration. The written instructions state to position the flip stops at 11 5/8" and 14 5/8" on the top scale. Uhhh, what about the metric versions? Are we supposed to do the conversions ourselves? (295mm and 371mm according to my calculations) Or was there supposed to be a metric set of instructions? 

 

[Birdhunter]

I just played with my bracket/rail assembly.

I found that by applying a bit of finger pressure on the bracket as I was tightening the Philips head screws, the bracket nestled into the MFT's rail's slot. The assembly was attached to only one Woodpecker track length, but it all seemed acceptably stable.

I didn't have to tighten the bracket's Philip head screws very much to get a good attachment.

It seems to be a bit fussier than any of the many other Woodpecker products I own.

I initially had difficulty getting a track out of the foam. I found that I could depress the foam with one finger at the end of the track and gain adequate access to the end of the track to lift it out.

 

[lunchman]

Called Woodpeckers re: the calibration settings for the metric rules.

There are two triangles on the top of the rail. One at 295, the other at 371 or so, as I had calculated. Makes calibration easy since you don't need to remember the actual measurements.

-Dom

 

[Slartibartfass]

I played around a bit yesterday evening and adding both brackets with 2 pieces of rails attached, all laying flat on the MFT and lifting it up a couple of times. Looked stable although I think the bevel on the bracket is awkward as the area for a point of contact is minimal between the bracket and the festool rail. Increasing the point of contact for clamping purposes would increase my confidence significantly....

I tried this, the holes have the same screw thread. Unfortunately the connector are to high for the bracket to completely clamp down on the festool rail:

[attachimg=1]

 

[Claimdude]

Fiddled with my Parallel Guide set today. I attached one of the brackets to the Festool rail I use most often and then attached the same bracket to one of the Woodpecker rails. While the bevels on the ridge did in fact fit into the groove on my Festool rail and the Woodpecker rail both rails struck the bevels about middle way. This is after tightening the screws as much as I feared without damaging the rail(s). In other words I could really cranked on the screws and maybe gotten another 1/8 to 3/16 turn but that would not have seat the bracket in a fashion I consider appropriate. In both cases the bracket stands proud of the rail(s) probably a mm or so (didn't measure it but the gap is clearly visible in the pics). Frankly, this is not acceptable for my purposes. While it may be functioning as designed, as stated by Wayne and Samantha at Woodpecker, it doesn't meet my standards for form and function that I expect from my tools. The bracket should seat before tightening very close to contact with the rails so that a 1/2 turn of the screw will force contact and produce a rigid attachment. The bevel should be the last point of contact before tightening begins rather than the bevel being proud of the bottom of the bracket by the amount mine are. I have a lot of red tools including a number on one-time tools and there are only two I was not happy with, the aluminum paolini rule (now have the stainless paolini and love it), and the parallel guide system we are discussing here. Hopefully, Woodpecker will step up with a fix this next week.

Jack

 

[Cheese]

[member=10616]Claimdude[/member]
As a DIY'er, I'm ok with the way the Woodpeckers guide centers itself on the Festool rail, my larger concern is as your son (blakjak220 ?) pointed out, will the guides hold their position as they are jostled around when cutting sheet goods. No one is going to handle these items with kid gloves, so it will be interesting to find out what the contracting crowd's opinion of these guides will be.

 

[Birdhunter]

I just received replacement Woodpecker tracks in exchange for tracks that I didn't even know were defective. This proactive customer support deepens my belief that Woodpecker will totally stand behind their products.

Those of us who have received the Woodpecker Parallel Guide System understand the Woodpecker bracket-to-Festool rail interface isn't optimal. I tend to believe the clever engineers at Woodpecker will come up with a replacement bracket with an improved interface.

Perhaps, some of the clever Festool engineers and users might provide some design ideas.

 

[Claimdude]

Cheese,

Thank you for the comments. Actually, the holding position issue is paramount with me as well. This has been stated and verified by others previously. I didn't mention it as I didn't test it but rather attempted to get the bracket to seat properly according to my standards. The photos and discussion I laid out in my last post simply confirm that the bearing surface of the bracket to rail is simply too small for there to be adequate stability. I basically have two very narrow (guessing... .005 mm?) points of contact per bracket. The bracket is small relative to the Woodpecker rails when joined together and attached to the bracket. So if you move the assembly any way other than very very carefully you will necessarily get unwanted movement of the bracket to Festool rail joint. Again, others have wiggled their assemblies around and found they they do in fact get movement at the joint of the bracket and Festool rail. Frankly, the way my bracket attaches to the Woodpecker rails it most likely will move around as well.

Thanks
Jack

PS I could take my Ti15 drill and force the bracket to seat properly but then the channel in the affected Festool track would be damaged and functionality reduced.

Wayne,

Either a post here or an email recognizing these concerns and a path forward would go a long toward calming the waters.

[member=10616]Claimdude[/member]
As a DIY'er, I'm ok with the way the Woodpeckers guide centers itself on the Festool rail, my larger concern is as your son (blakjak220 ?) pointed out, will the guides hold their position as they are jostled around when cutting sheet goods. No one is going to handle these items with kid gloves, so it will be interesting to find out what the contracting crowd's opinion of these guides will be.