Woodpecker's Parallel Guide System One Time Tool

[Cheese]

Perhaps, some of the clever Festool engineers and users might provide some design ideas.

[member=15289]Birdhunter[/member]
Rather than having 2 chamfers on the Woodpeckers "Main Body Bracket" to center it in the channel of the Festool rail, I would have replaced one of the chamfers with a 90 degree edge so that the edge of the Main Body Bracket would engage the inside of the Festool channel directly and the remaining chamfer would then be able to compensate for the varying channel widths. I think it would lock in tighter and be harder to knock the body bracket and Festool rail out of alignment.

 

[Birdhunter]

Good idea.

I was thinking about a rectangular block on the bottom of the Woodpecker bracket somewhat smaller than the Festool rail slot. Loose fit. Then the bracket would have a sliding block to jam up against the outside of the Festool rail. The sliding block would be held tight by two screws after being jammed against the rail.

Wish I knew how to include a sketch.

 

[Tinker]

Perhaps, some of the clever Festool engineers and users might provide some design ideas.

[member=15289]Birdhunter[/member]
Rather than having 2 chamfers on the Woodpeckers "Main Body Bracket" to center it in the channel of the Festool rail, I would have replaced one of the chamfers with a 90 degree edge so that the edge of the Main Body Bracket would engage the inside of the Festool channel directly and the remaining chamfer would then be able to compensate for the varying channel widths. I think it would lock in tighter and be harder to knock the body bracket and Festool rail out of alignment.

Having the side closest to the WP rail flat with other side tapered seems like a much more reliable setup.  With both sides tapered, i don't think it would ever be a consistent measurement.  Such double taper depends on just about all of the factors mentioned in previous posts being perfectly set and then not moving the setup between cuts.  I think with only one side tapered, the Ft rail and WP guides could be picked up, moved and reapplied many times without losing accuracy from first adjustment.

I do not have the WP guides, but I still have eyes  [smile]. No sarcasm meant

Tinker

 

[jimbo51]

The one side flat, one side tapered should make a more stable attachment. However, the contact surfaces are still very small.

I will mention again that the bracket does not move side to side or front to back, it pivots in the channel. You can just pivot it back to the central, flat position. 

Woodpecker may have chosen this design as a way to avoid breakage or bending of the Festool rail if there is a major impact at the end of the Woodpecker rail. A 50 inch long rail creates a very powerful lever arm. If the bracket was tightly held in the Festool rail channel, then one of the pieces could be bent or broken if the end of the Woodpecker rail hit something solid while the whole combination was being moved.

By having a pivot point, some of the force of the impact is taken by the pivoting action. Once pivoted, the bracket and rail can flex more easily to absorb the rest of the impact.

If the bracket was flat on the bottom, the inside nut could use the same principle as the locking mechanism on miter bars on table saws. (slit in bar, tapered screw/hole forcing sides of bar to hold against table saw slot). However, that might be a bad idea in the case of a large levering action.

I would rather put up with occasionally having to repivot the bracket than risk bending my Festool rail.   

 

[Claimdude]

I disagree. If it is true they chose this design to protect the Festool rail then why use the same design for the Woodpecker rails that arevastly more rigid than the Festool rails. I reference my pictures above. I fail to see a good reason to have the bracket when tight to sit proud of the rails (Festool and Woodpecker) as much as my brackets do. Frankly, I should be able to set and forget it until time to break it down and store it. Attached are a couple of pictures of my Woodpecker tools (I am sure there are those who have more but the point is that I have not been a casual purchaser of Woodpecker tools). Some of the non-Woodpecker tools in the pics are stainless and either Starrett or Verits. These pictures do not include the 50" rule and 2 straight edge rules (nor my parallel guide set which is stored in the systainer) that are mounted on my wall.

Still no word (aside from it is designed to work this way) from Woodpecker!

Jack

The one side flat, one side tapered should make a more stable attachment. However, the contact surfaces are still very small.

I will mention again that the bracket does not move side to side or front to back, it pivots in the channel. You can just pivot it back to the central, flat position. 

Woodpecker may have chosen this design as a way to avoid breakage or bending of the Festool rail if there is a major impact at the end of the Woodpecker rail. A 50 inch long rail creates a very powerful lever arm. If the bracket was tightly held in the Festool rail channel, then one of the pieces could be bent or broken if the end of the Woodpecker rail hit something solid while the whole combination was being moved.

By having a pivot point, some of the force of the impact is taken by the pivoting action. Once pivoted, the bracket and rail can flex more easily to absorb the rest of the impact.

If the bracket was flat on the bottom, the inside nut could use the same principle as the locking mechanism on miter bars on table saws. (slit in bar, tapered screw/hole forcing sides of bar to hold against table saw slot). However, that might be a bad idea in the case of a large levering action.

I would rather put up with occasionally having to repivot the bracket than risk bending my Festool rail. 

 

[Hurricane Whisperer]

Good idea.

I was thinking about a rectangular block on the bottom of the Woodpecker bracket somewhat smaller than the Festool rail slot. Loose fit. Then the bracket would have a sliding block to jam up against the outside of the Festool rail. The sliding block would be held tight by two screws after being jammed against the rail.

Wish I knew how to include a sketch.

I do not have a set of the Woodpecker parallel guides, but I have been reading this thread and I had the exact same idea as you did if I understand the problem and your solution correctly.

It seems that the problem is that the beveled area on the bracket holds the face of the bracket off of the face of the rails on both the Festool rail and Woodpecker rail.  Although the bevel does provide a good way to ensure alignment even with varying rail groove widths, it appears that since the faces can't mate, tilting leverage works on the part making it come loose if I understand the problem.

So the solution would be a rectangular alignment boss on the bracket that is small enough to fit in the smallest groove.  Then to achieve alignment, you would need to pull the rectangular boss to one side of the rail to make contact with the groove edge.  This could be done by placing a boss fitted with set screws or a gib of some sort that could be tightened to the outside of the rail groove wall to ensure that the inner rectangular boss is butted on one side of the groove for alignment.

 

[Cheese]

Wish I knew how to include a sketch.

I'm with you...I'm clueless.

[member=28483]iamnothim[/member] always does a great job including sketches and marked up drawings in his posts. Maybe we can learn from him?

 

[Cheese]

[member=10616]Claimdude[/member]
Nice job on the orginaizational front. I like it.

FWIW...other than the squares, the most used Woodpeckers tool for me is the setup blocks. And the most elegant functioning tool of theirs is the bevel gauge. It just works...

 

[Birdhunter]

Hurricane did a much better job of describing my fix than did I. Now, if only we knew how to include a sketch.

 

[rmwarren]

Hurricane did a much better job of describing my fix than did I. Now, if only we knew how to include a sketch.

Sketch it, take a photo or otherwise convert to image file format, then use "attachments and other options" below the comment box to attach the image file.

[attachthumb=1]

I mostly open photos on my computer and then clip a screenshot to the desktop to give me a small image of exactly want I want to present.

RMW

 

[Hurricane Whisperer]

Hurricane did a much better job of describing my fix than did I. Now, if only we knew how to include a sketch.

For what it's worth, most Festool and I believe most other parallel guides align by using the outside of the slotted part of the rail.  Festool uses the same set screw set up to allow pull the alignment part to the rail.  It works, but I have never really liked the setup as it is prone to sticking and being a nuisance to easily slide on the rail.

From what I see, I like Woodpecker's idea of aligning using the inside of the groove better.  But I can imagine that it would be possible for rocking motion to make it come loose if the bevel will not allow the bracket to face up against the rail.

I really need a milling machine so I can make all sorts of Festool enhancements.

 

[Slartibartfass]

I really need a milling machine so I can make all sorts of Festool enhancements.

For smaller scale milling i recommend the following (use it myself once in a while...):

http://www.sherline.com/mills.htm

 

[iamnothim]

I didn't read the whole thread.
It's a moot point since it was retired 5/23/15.  Looks nice for smaller parallel cuts.

That said,  I have the Festool Parallel Guide and Extensions.  I love it.  I can break down a sheet in no time at all.

 

[blaszcsj]

I didn't read the whole thread.
It's a moot point since it was retired 5/23/15.  Looks nice for smaller parallel cuts.

That said,  I have the Festool Parallel Guide and Extensions.  I love it.  I can break down a sheet in no time at all.

The comments are coming in because we are just receiving the guide systems. I am still waiting on my, due to ship in a week or two.

 

[copcarcollector]

I posted a reply to the 'moot point' comment but then deleted it, perhaps it is 'moot' to Luke as it can no longer be ordered.. (?)

At any rate, I appreciate all of the feedback, pictures and suggestions from those who have their sets in hand and are working with it. I know that Woodpecker has commented on these issues, if they come up with a fix or new part, I hope they will post again. I ordered mine from Tool Nut and dont have it yet.

 

[Df1k1]

I have not received my set yet and I'm wondering if delayed shipment is due to the fact that they are attempting to fix what is clearly a problem. However after reading all this I am rather tempted to cancel my order

 

[Birdhunter]

I have received my set and I agree the bracket-to-rail design is functional, but not optimal.

I'd want to keep my set even with the sub-optimal design. Other than that issue, the tool is well made and will do the job very well.

 

[supimeister]

I have received my set and I agree the bracket-to-rail design is functional, but not optimal.

I'd want to keep my set even with the sub-optimal design. Other than that issue, the tool is well made and will do the job very well.

I am not so sure about keeping them unless an improvement is made.  I actually sold my Seneca Parallel Guides for this set (mostly because of the added convenience of its size for storage / portability)

 

[slopjock78]

I am in the same boat as several here.....waiting to get mine, and in the mean time reading a fair amount of negative press on them.  i specifically ordered mine for two reasons:  i like the fact that they can be broke down, stored and easily transported in a systainer.  and secondly, that they have the ability to cut much longer pieces then the Festool set.  I do not have a MFT, and like the repeatability of cutting longer pieces then the Festool guides.

So I would like to ask those who have already received, and used, their Woodpecker guides:  what is your overall impression, and specifically, do you plan to keep or return the set you have?  Will it meet the needs that I am looking for, while maintaining a high level of accuracy?

thanks

 

[Cheese]

I am not so sure about keeping them unless an improvement is made. 

I'm not so sure these items are returnable as they are a OTT. If you've yet to receive your guide rails then you can always cancel the order for any number of reasons.

Does anyone have a clearer definition?