Woodshop in doors. Dust collector in garage? 110 or 220?

[NewWoodWorkerVA]

I’ve moved my woodshop indoors.  It is in air conditioned space (though I will permanently seal off the AC return in this room). 

Upgrading my dust collector is urgently in the list.

Garage is on the other side of an insulated wall.  Would I have any issues cutting a 4 inch hole through the wall and running ducting and keeping the extractor in the garage?

I’d lose visual of the extractor; should that be concerning?

I’d also be pushing interior air to the garage; but the noise situation would be improved.

Also…. I have a Kapex, bandsaw, drum sander, and table saw.  Those are the big fine dust makers.  Would you all get a 110V or a 220V extractor?  I’ll have to pay for some electrical work for the 220.  Would it be worth it?

Currently looking at the Laguna P Flex 1 or maybe 3.  I like the self-cleaning and super easy bin emptying.  The bin full sensor is also a plus.  I know Oneida is also highly recommended if anybody has thoughts comparing the two.

I do plan to do metal ducting to the collector if it is in the woodshop or in the garage.

 

[ChuckM]

Definitely 220V. Dust collectors rated 1.5HP and above usually require that kind of voltage.

Also install at least a few 20 amp outlets where possible.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

If you're placing the dust collector in a separate room, you'll need to give some thought as to how you'll be providing for make up air.

Since you'd be removing hundreds of CFM from the room, where will the replacement air be coming from? Your local building code likely prohibits allowing air from the garage to enter to the room, so that's a "no-go". If you're opening a window, that's probably fine but remember that you'll be sucking in outdoor air, which depending on the season may be very humid, cold, or laden with soot/ash (remember those wildfires last Summer?). If you're drawing air from the rest of the house, where will the rest of the house be getting the replacement air? If you have combustion appliances (natural gas water heater, fireplace, etc....), you run the risk of back drafting the combustion gases and creating a CO hazard.

All of the above is to say, it's not a terrible idea to place your dust collector in a separate room, but you'll want to be very careful about not creating a risk to health and safety.

I'm running a 4hp RL 160 in my Shop, and while it's noisy, by the time I'm running a machine and have my sound canceling headphones in I generally can't hear it, so I haven't felt the need to position it outside the Shop.

I'd suggest it's worthwhile spending the money on getting a unit with HEPA filtration, and remember that you need to size your piping to the collector. It doesn't do any good to get a 20hp unit with 6,000 cfm if you install 4" ducting, which is limited to a flow capacity of ~350cfm, and you'll want to make sure you're maintaining sufficient velocity to keep the dust in suspension.

I hope the above is helpful, good luck and work safe!

 

[Steve1]

I have a Laguna P Flux 1 in a "storage room" adjacent to my basement workshop.
The P Flux is quieter than the C Flux, but it's pretty loud just the same.  Glad I have it in a separate room.

As mentioned in the previous reply, you have a problem with make up air.  For every cubic foot of air that exits your shop, another cubic foot must enter your shop.

I have only a minimum of ducting/hoses, so I find the P Flux has more than plenty of airflow.
The "beater bar" filter cleaner has a rather objectional sound.  Besides turning on ever 10 minutes, it runs every time you shut off the machine, even if you only turned on the dust collector to make a quick cut.  So I put a switch in-line with the cleaner motor to disable it when I feel I am going to make a minimum of dust.    But perhaps by now I am getting used to "bag of bolts" sound anyways.

You need a 25 amp circuit for the 115 volt version, so you are likely calling in an electrician anyways.  That's what I did.  Laguna has a kit for changing their P Flux 1 to 220 volt, but it includes a new gearmotor for the filter cleaner and I think circuit board too.  I didn't get a price on the conversion kit because surely it was not going to be cost effective.  Otherwise, I would have gone 220V.

By the way, I also was looking at an Oneida.  What killed the Oneida for me was the 3 proprietary motors.  The motor on the Laguna has a Laguna nameplate on it, but sure looks like a standard NEMA face mount induction motor.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The issue of make-up air is not purely about the air. When the shop is a "conditioned space" and your dust collector is in a garage that is not.....it soon will be. All of that air leaving you shop, will end up in the garage. You have sucked all of the cooled/warmed air out and the filters released it into the garage.
There is a work-around though. What you have to do is isolate the dust collector in a small insulated "closet" and return that air back to the shop. This will bring back some of the sound, but it is less than having it in the same room. Plus, it's not taking space in the shop.

That is how this monster works. It sits outside, with a 24" inlet duct flowing 10s of thousands of CFM. In the summer, it exhausts the filtered air to the outside and when it gets cold enough to turn on the heat, a giant flapper gate re-directs it back to the inside.

 

[NewWoodWorkerVA]

These are very helpful.  Make up air concerns are pushing my new dust collector indoors.

Still interested in the Laguna, and yes, will need an electrician regardless.  I am a one man shop.  Biggest dust producer will be bandsaw, drum sander and table saw.  All with 4 inch ducts (future table saw will anyway).

Assuming money is not a huge factor (buy once, cry once) the Laguna price difference from the Pflux 1 to 3 is 700.  With 400+ CFM difference.  And for only $200 more there is the Laguna 3 with over double the CFM as the Pflux 1.

Is this a case of “bigger is better” or could it actually be a problem to go too big?

The bandsaw, Jointer,  and router table would be about 8 feet away on the floor but with the due ting going up to the ceiling and back down.  The drum sander could be as much as 20 feet away on the floor with sucking going up to the ceiling.

Would the 1314 CFM of the PFLUX 1 with static pressure of 10.1” work for this?  Would it be a to get the 2 HP unit for 1734 CFM?  I doubt I’d ever spend money to convert the Pflux 1 to 220, so it’s “now or never” but if there’s such a thing as “too big” then I may just get the 1.5/110V version.

 

[BarneyD]

I'm no expert, but I don't think going too big is a problem. Some years ago, I was going to order a 2HP Oneida "V" system DC. But at the time, they had a sale going on, so I was able to buy the 3HP version for an extra $100. I've had no problems with it.

Good luck with yours.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi [member=80404]NewWoodWorkerVA[/member] ,

In terms of CFM ratings, it's important to note that some brands rate their CFM ratings differently than others. Brands like Oneida, Felder, Al-Ko, and others list their CFM ratings as a completed unit, with the filter installed. Brands like Laguna, Jet, Powermatic, Grizzly, etc... tend to list their CFM as just what the fan can deliver, with no filter fitted. Typically, once you factor in the resistance from a high performance filter these inflated CFM ratings typically drop to ~1/4 or 1/3 of the rated performance.

Edit: For instance, Felder lists their RL 140 as having a maximum cfm of 1,471, but a nominal cfm of 652. So, the 1,471 cfm would likely be the fan with no filter, whereas the 652 cfm represents "actual" performance, with a high efficiency filter in place.

If money is no object, I'd suggest looking at Al-Ko, they're supposed to be about as good as you can get for a relatively small system:https://alko-extractiontechnology.com/en/product/al-ko-power-unit-pure-air-dust-extractors/

I prefer the Euro-style collectors (Al-Ko, Felder, SCM, etc....), where the units are "mobile" (already mounted on casters), relatively short (usually ~6" tall), have high performance filters, and have the fan mounted on the "clean" side of the filters. My RL 160 has been great, it keeps up just fine with my 20" jointer/planer, shaper, etc... . If you're looking for a slightly smaller footprint, you may want to consider a RL-140:https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/...actor-sc649193/dust-extractor-rl-140-sp611390

Also worthy of mention is that, if possible, go with a three phase motor. If you take the time to read the owners manuals, you'll see that many 240V 1ph dust extractor motors are rated for only so many starts per hour (you're limited by the thermal performance of the start capacitors), whereas a 3ph motor can start many, many times per hour without issue.

Edit: I realize adding 3 phase might be completely out of the budget, but I've always found it to be helpful to at least define what the range of options are so I can feel like I'm making a fully informed decision...

 

[Steve1]

Biggest dust producer will be bandsaw, drum sander and table saw.

Those won't produce a lot of dust/chips, but when you get a planer, you will be amazed at how quickly you can fill the bin.

 

[NewWoodWorkerVA]

Oh yeah I have the Dw735 planer too.  Lots of chips but they are bigger not fine dust.  Also have the Kapex 120 with festool extractor and it still puts out a tone of dust.

 

[ChuckM]

Based on my set-up, there's nothing to worry about the Kapex's dust generation. I use a dust deputy and a 36mm dia. hose. Repeated measurements over many cutting sessions with an air quality monitor told me that while visible traces of dust are found on the saw (esp. behind), the air quality stays good. As long as the dust on the saw is not disturbed and is extracted afterwards, the shop air is clean.

A good AQM is supposed to also measure the dust particles that you can't see, and they're the more dangerous ones than the visible saw dust.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Assuming that the ductwork is correctly sized, the only downsides to having a dust collector that is "too big" are:
1) Sound, though this can be mitigated by brand/model. Some are louder than others. Even with a machine in a remote location, you can still hear the airflow of a very large unit. That is something I deal with every day. There is a 10" open-end of a trunk line about 15 feet over my area (about 25 feet from my bench) and the air rushing in is very noticeable. You get used to it, and it is way better than the sound of the air coming back in, but that is 150 feet away. (winter only)
2)Cost, not just the initial investment of the collector itself, but possible wiring expenses and the electricity used.
3)Space. Bigger units take up more space, even if it is just the size of the bin.

So, it's all relative.  I would go with one that is at least a little "too big", assuming that you will "grow into it", rather than regretting too small and having to upgrade later. If the jump to the next level is very costly, it may not make sense though. You could run some of your tools with an individual extractor, if you overwhelm the original unit, by adding something new. This can save on added ductwork expenses too.