(Yet another) Domino 500 jig...design input/question

[jbarr]

Brilliant Chuck! I have two more nagging questions .....

Did you find the indexing/referencing rod (apart from your O ring hack) accurate and remains solid and consistent in that hole?
Did you find only having horizontal slots for clamping adequate? The reason I asked that is because on the carmonius version when drilling into long horizontal boards, like face frames, I used the vertical slots for solid clamping

 

[ChuckM]

I didn't test the offset gauge for accuracy, but I have no reason to believe it isn't. There is no play in the hole. The indexing procedure went pretty smoothly. One potential source for inaccuracy, I'd argue, lies not in the offset gauge but in the paddles/spring stops. Those two paddles need to have the same distance from the center point of the cutter.

I'll check about the clamping aspect further tomorrow.

 

[ChuckM]

Jbarr,

Not sure if this mock-up test answers your question. I tried out the hold-downs on a 26" long scrap in a couple of orientations. The holding was rock solid even when I applied only a moderate clamping pressure:

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]

If I understood your concern correctly, I can say that the spring-loaded hold-downs should not present any clamping problem to any stock that can fit on the joinery table.

I also found that for fast clamping, press down the arm (blue arrowed) to the stock before turning (spinning) the knob.

[attachimg=3]

In actual use (at least in most cases), I think I will use only one hold-down at the front given its holding power, and hold the other end of the stock against the fixed or movable fence with my non-dominant hand to provide a counter force to the plunging, just in the same way we usually do when using the DF500 without clamping the stock. I also think that the Veritas joinery table can be used without clamping it down to the bench if the joinery table butts against something (a wall, dogs or planing stop on the bench, etc.), but this isn't something I'm sure at this point in time as I haven't really used it in a project.

 

[jbarr]

Thanks for being so helpful Chuck and yes you answered my concerns perfectly.

Yes the paddles have to be equidistant from the centre of the Domino. All these jigs, woodpeckers, carmonius and veritas are relying on and assume that festool have provided that precision.

John

 

[ChuckM]

You're welcome, John. By trying to answer your questions with some test cuts, I came to know about the joinery jig more.

I found enough 6.5mm ply scrap for my project without needing to buy a sheet of 5mm ply:

[attachimg=1]

This also means that I can use the 2mm shim stock that came with the table for the milling. I may still look for some 2.5mm shims for future use.

 

[Sheik Maboutie]

I built this back in July 2010 to give a better alignment and speed of production, the feed lever worked extremely well giving a much smoother feed.

This was posted on the Festool user forum in August 2010

 

[ChuckM]

This is another version:

[attachimg=1]

 

[Adamsse]

I just set up and tested my Veritas Domino Joinery table.  I love this accurate capability and affordable price.  However I tried swapping out the clamps with Woodpecker clamps I use on my drill press table.  I find them much easier/quicker to slide down the slot and clamp down on the piece.  I also like the fact they have rubber faces to protect the wood/table.  The Veritas clamps are very effective as well, they just need a little more force to position.  I plan to add a plastic washer under the Veritas clamp metal washer to see if that helps with sliding them.  I wouldn’t have paid for the new WP clamps, but definitely think they will be easier to use when processing multiple pieces.

 

[ChuckM]

I just set up and tested my Veritas Domino Joinery table.  I love this accurate capability and affordable price. 

Snip.

I, too, found the hold-downs sticky in use, but had a simple solution to it. I replaced the springs with ones that have less tension:

[attachimg=1]

I can now slide the hold-downs without much effort. (I have a similar T-slot hold-down clamp (not spring-loaded) on my drill press, which cost me about $15US.)

I was also experimenting with the use of Festool clamps on the jig this morning. No conclusion has been reached on that yet. I need to look into that further to be sure the clamps won't damage the jig.

[attachimg=2]

About the price. There's no way I could build a joinery table of similar quality at the retail price I paid, even though I have built so many jigs over the years...unless I don't count my hourly rate as a woodworker.

 

[ChuckM]

I should also add that I finally found the 2.5mm shim stock for milling 5mm ply material...from HD:

[attachimg=1]

 

[jbarr]

Probably Microjig's dovetail clamps would work as well.

Chuck I'm impressed that your mortising 5mm stock when the smallest tenon is just under 4mm. Not a lot of wiggle room. I guess this jig makes that possible. BTW I use my home made carmonius version (and soon to buy this jig) for doing small boxes so I also mortise into faces as well as edges. I use an L shaped push block to keep the piece vertical and hard up against the fence using one of the clamping elements clamps. I obviously needed a 20mm hole which I drilled in the middle of the jig. Just another use which works perfectly not shown in any of the videos

 

[ChuckM]

John,

I've done Dominoes with 5mm stock before:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/sorting-trays-(5mm-ply)-done-with-df500-4mm-tenons/msg662850/#msg662850

The joinery table will use a shim on the table instead of a shim on the machine, with improved accuracy. The set-up will also be simpler.

 

[Adamsse]

Chuck, Thanks for alerting us to 5mm capability. I just tried that on the Veritas table.  The .093 acrylic + 2 sheets of paper did it.  If you have additional posts or photos on how you have applied this in the past, we would appreciate it.  Sandy

 

[ChuckM]

Sandy,

The sorting trays are the only project I used 5mm ply on, but I saw the potential of the Veritas joinery table to do similar tasks that require precision and more.

 

[jbarr]

OK me too!
You convinced me Chuck!
The delivery cost, however, is a killer! I guess in a years time I won't remember.

View attachment 1

John

 

[jbarr]

Look what arrived!
From Canada to Australia in only 6 days from ordering. It often takes longer than that within Australia. I was surprised to see how big it was particularly compared to my Carmonius version and speaking of which I'm so glad he gets a royalty from my purchase. He deserves it! Note the 20mm hole in my home made version. That takes an in line clamp for drilling into faces for small box making. The bigger fence on the Veritas version makes this easier but at this stage I'm not willing to drill a 20mm hole into my brand new table.
Quality, accuracy and tolerances as reported by others are great
I'm still trying to work out what are the best most efficient clamps. I've tried the supplied clamps and changed to a lighter spring like Chuck suggested as well as an Incra clamp, ratchet clamp and home made clamps.
What clamps did you find the most suitable Chuck?View attachment 1

John

 

[ChuckM]

John,

After replacing the springs, I've used the hold-downs with no issues. You may want to try out a few springs to find the sweet tension spot. I've also used the Festool Quick Release clamps with success, for example, for holding down the 2mm sheet on the table.

[attachimg=2]

For workpieces that are too small or too tall to be clamped on, I use a right-angle bracket or block to hold them in place (it's a lot faster, too):

[attachimg=1]

I, too, was surprised by the large package when I picked up my joinery table, and by its size after assembly. I was probably "misled" by the images of the original table that Carmonius shared, and thought that the Veritas version would be similar in size. The large, sturdy table is advantageous in at least two aspects based on my limited use: i) I can butt it against a stop on my bench, and use it without having it clamped to my bench, ii) The large top allows me to work with big and small components.

In my second project making use of the joinery table, I built a couple of drawers to store the accessories, if you haven't read it:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/user-upgrade-to-the-veritas-domino-joinery-table/

 

[jbarr]

I thought I'd whip up a quick box, inspired by your box Chuck, to house all the accessories using Kaizen foam. The box is using 4 x 20 dominoes and 12mm MDF. I wasn't game to use 4mm dominoes in a 6mm board.
View attachment 1

 

[ChuckM]

Nice organizer!

Were there any major differences in the process or result between using the new and your previous shop-made joinery table? Do you prefer the dovetail clamps over the spring-loaded hold-down clamps given the design of your shop-made jig?

 

[jbarr]

In terms of results, accuracy and alignment, no difference. Both excellent! Setup and aligning the domino to the fixed fence using a straight edge, no difference. I prefer the way dovetail clamps slide smoothly in their slots but their biggest flaw is that don't swivel 360 deg and you therefore need twice the slots, vertical and horizontal.  The veritas provided clamps are quicker in terms of repeat mortises on the same thickness stock but I wish they would slide more smoothly.

I guess people are asking and I'm asking myself why did I buy the veritas version when I have an equivalent, accurate and fully functioning device. Firstly I use memory sticks instead of the more elegant indexing rod. I made 12 sticks of different lengths that cover most projects. I slide the fence to nearly its correct position and then measure to the appropriate flap on the domino and then grab the nearest stick in length and then slide the fence against the stick. Not efficient but effective. Also I found in some cases I was regretting not making a bigger unit. So I was just about to make a new and improved jig, given I was using it nearly all the time, until I saw the veritas version and I was immediately hooked. The woodpecker version which is too small, would have cost me $1100 USD delivered to Australia (ouch!!) and it offered nothing more in terms of functionality and accuracy but as far as I was concerned its only benefit was not having to use shims but I'm finding them not to be a problem and finally I was tempted to send Carmonius a donation for his brilliant jig but as I said above, buying this unit gave him a royalty