2 different Festool power cords.???

[Intex]

I just went to use my Festool CT-Midi vacuum with my Festool sander.
I just had completed a sheathing of both the Festool hose and a Festool power cable inside one of the expandable covers
When I went to plug in the sander, the power cable end would not fit into the orbital sander

WTHeck! Are there two versions of the connector? Can I just cut away part of the connector to use on both types of Festool?

Don’t want to waste the money and time in put into the cover if not necessary

 

[Bob D.]

Yes, two cords, one is for the higher amperage tools. The low amp cord will not fit the tools which draw higher amperage.

Why not one cord to fit them all that was rated for all? I don't know, save a little money I guess and the lighter cord can be a little more flexible but I don't notice that much difference between the two.

So if you making up a combination hose with cord use the cord that fits both high and low amperage tools.

 

[cpw]

The high amp cord works with all of the tools.  AFAIK, it is only needed for routers and saws.  I would expect that your sander should work with both cords.

 

[rvieceli]

[member=62093]Intex[/member]

Here’s the scoop on the cords

The higher amp draw tools have a 16 awg cord. Here’s the socket on a ts55

[attachimg=1]

The lower amp draw tools like sanders have an 18 awg cord here’s an RO90 socket

[attachimg=2]

Here are the cord ends. The lower amp cord has an extra tab on the top so it won’t fit in the higher draw tools

[attachimg=3]

The heavier cord by design will fit in all the tools. So bottom line is the cord without the extra tab is the one you want in the sleeve.

Ron

 

[flair woodworks]

When I went to plug in the sander, the power cable end would not fit into the orbital sander

Both all Festool power cords should fit any of their sanders with detachable cords.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I found this one out the hard way a couple of years ago. My first several Festool tools all used the same cord, so I had no experience with this, even owning them for several years.
After a shop fire and a move to a new building with much more space, I set up a cutting station for a TS55, which I did not have before. That was the first one with the heavier cord, but I wasn't aware of the difference....yet.
When I bought all of the replacement equipment, I did as before, chucked all of the cords into one of the bottom drawers of my big tool box. That way I'm putting any potential wear and tear on just one of them, plus it keeps the workspace much neater with only one cord swapped between tools.
One particular day, I took my TS 55 home after work, for something there that evening. I didn't bother with taking the CT 26, so I just grabbed an extra cord from the drawer....yeah, wrong one.
This is just as frustrating as taking the PS 420 home and forgetting to take a cord at all, did that once too. Hopefully those are both one-time lessons.
That said, just use the heavier cord all of the time. You can switch back and forth with no problems.

 

[Intex]

Thank you all!!
I'll switch out tyo the heavier duty cable with one tab

 

[Michael Kellough]

Years ago working on site in Manhattan I discovered my TS saw cord was back at my shop, across the harbor, plugged into the vac like it always was.

I was kinda stunned by the thought of a wasted day but my young assistant asked for specific info on what was needed and within a minute had located a store across town that had a heavy cord in stock. A dealer that I didn’t even know existed.

In about a half hour I was back at work, and resolved to buy one of those new fangled smart phones.

In another instance I did slice off the projecting tab in a light duty cord when I brought the wrong one. It works fine if you don’t use it for too long.

 

[Coen]

Just like with Imperial this is the pain you endure when you stick to something else (110V) compared to the rest of the world (230V). In Europe we have 1 Plug-It Cord [well, per country..], so we don't have that problem. Nor do we have problems with the OF2200 and the vac running from one circuit.

With 110V the tradeoff is either incompatible cords or always using the heavier cord...

 

[semenza]

Just like with Imperial this is the pain you endure when you stick to something else (110V) compared to the rest of the world (230V). In Europe we have 1 Plug-It Cord [well, per country..], so we don't have that problem. Nor do we have problems with the OF2200 and the vac running from one circuit.

With 110V the tradeoff is either incompatible cords or always using the heavier cord...

Yeah, but the  heavier   cord isn't all that much heavier.  110v , 230v, whatever .....  there should just be the one heavier cord.  Plenty of power tools in the USA have cords that are heavier and less flexible than the heavy Festool cord.  I don't know why the two cord thing is the way it is, but personally I find the weight factor excuse, the flex factor excuse, and the saving a few cents excuse -- to not pass the sniff test. 

The two cord thing does pass the stupid test though.

Seth

 

[CeeJay]

Not quite the case here I think. Here in Australia everything runs off 230V, yet we still get two gauges of cable. I got heavy gauge with my TS55 and OF 1400, light with DF500, sanders etc.

I have one of the heavy gauge cables strapped up to my CT MIDI hose.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DeformedTree]

Just like with Imperial this is the pain you endure when you stick to something else (110V) compared to the rest of the world (230V). In Europe we have 1 Plug-It Cord [well, per country..], so we don't have that problem. Nor do we have problems with the OF2200 and the vac running from one circuit.

With 110V the tradeoff is either incompatible cords or always using the heavier cord...

They could just use the heavier cord only, it would be fine. I don't think anyone in usage would even notice the difference.

We have 1 plug for a whole continent. Nema 5-15 is most likely the most common electrical plug on earth, it is not the issue.  Very few items ever run near 15A even at 110V.  As most items got more efficient (tvs, computers, etc) most items barely use an amp.  So there is no reason to change things.  When we have big stuff, we have other plugs, such as those for ovens and such, these are far more powerful than the plugs you guys have. We have plugs that do 60A at 240V.  Many 110V circuits in our homes are 20A circuits. Code requires them in various places (bathrooms, kitchens).  Custom  built homes and such often have all their outlets as 20A.  Of course almost no appliance comes with a 20A plug, but that's ok, it means the circuit can handle more items at once.

For the big tools like the OF2200, Festool could have given it a 20A plug.  They also could have gone to 240V, we have 15 and 20 plugs for that too.  They just aren't required by Code, so builders don't install them.  But folks wire them up in their shops and garages regularly to run tools that run on 240V.

240VAC is nice, but it's not without issues.  The main thing is safety.  US is 120VAC to ground/neutral, and due to split phase power, even when something is 240V, the potential is still 120V to ground, only directly across the pins is 240V, so you would have to short it and not ground out at the same time.  So there is a big safety benefit.  The trade off for some higher amps isn't much and few items push this limit. We wire with heavy gauge wiring, and high temp limits. Trying to use the smallest gauge wire is not a priority. A zap of 120V isn't pleasant, but you manage. A 240V zap is not good at all.  As has come up in various threads here. We are not amps limited in this country. The smallest legal service is 100A, standard is 200A, many homes have 400A services to them.  We don't have to concern ourselves with trying to use as few amps as possible for fear of running out. I'm not against the 240V stuff, but the focus on safety in this country makes elimination of 110V power very unlikely.

The lighter gauge cord is just something Festool never had to do.

 

[ChuckM]

A few local contractors I know here carry only the 20amp electrical wires even though they handle jobs for both 15amp and 20amp breakers. They said they no longer wanted to keep both types of wires in their trucks, and the costs were easily passed onto the clients.

 

[gunnyr]

Me thinks its all about the money [wink] [wink].....  At the volume a company like Festool operates on, saving even $0.20 per item adds up to big bucks. 

I've mostly relegated the 16ga cords to the bottom shelf in the back of my shop.  Like others I've trimmed the tab off one or two cords....

 

[Wood_Slice]

Wow, learned something new today. I have the DF500 and the ETS EC 125/3. Im guessing both have same cables. Side question are all of their cables the same length? I also have the new CT Midi and the above tools but when I attach the cable to the anti-static hose and tie it with velcor ties the tips do not line up. Skme tools like the domino have hose at the front of tool while cord at the back vs sanders pretty much on same line distance wise.

 

[mino]

They could just use the heavier cord only, it would be fine. I don't think anyone in usage would even notice the difference.

We have 1 plug for a whole continent. Nema 5-15 is most likely the most common electrical plug on earth, it is not the issue.  Very few items ever run near 15A even at 110V.  As most items got more efficient (tvs, computers, etc) most items barely use an amp.  So there is no reason to change things.  When we have big stuff, we have other plugs, such as those for ovens and such, these are far more powerful than the plugs you guys have. We have plugs that do 60A at 240V.  Many 110V circuits in our homes are 20A circuits. Code requires them in various places (bathrooms, kitchens).  Custom  built homes and such often have all their outlets as 20A.  Of course almost no appliance comes with a 20A plug, but that's ok, it means the circuit can handle more items at once.

For the big tools like the OF2200, Festool could have given it a 20A plug.  They also could have gone to 240V, we have 15 and 20 plugs for that too.  They just aren't required by Code, so builders don't install them.  But folks wire them up in their shops and garages regularly to run tools that run on 240V.

240VAC is nice, but it's not without issues.  The main thing is safety.  US is 120VAC to ground/neutral, and due to split phase power, even when something is 240V, the potential is still 120V to ground, only directly across the pins is 240V, so you would have to short it and not ground out at the same time.  So there is a big safety benefit.  The trade off for some higher amps isn't much and few items push this limit. We wire with heavy gauge wiring, and high temp limits. Trying to use the smallest gauge wire is not a priority. A zap of 120V isn't pleasant, but you manage. A 240V zap is not good at all.  As has come up in various threads here. We are not amps limited in this country. The smallest legal service is 100A, standard is 200A, many homes have 400A services to them.  We don't have to concern ourselves with trying to use as few amps as possible for fear of running out. I'm not against the 240V stuff, but the focus on safety in this country makes elimination of 110V power very unlikely.

The lighter gauge cord is just something Festool never had to do.

I think this discussion is moot as the US simply got stuck with the worse system due to the fact it was the "first mover" and changing over was just too expensive when tech progressed.

(Most) European providers went directly to AC as it was available by the time mass installations were being done. Hence 3-phase power being standard as opposed to a split-voltage for high-power devices. They did not have the need for the split-voltage arrangement which invented for DC current delivery initially.

There is one thing to be corrected though.

Standard wiring in most of Europe (least 20+ years over here) is that every socket must be wired as 16A@230V. No exceptions. You can use lower amperage protection circuits, but the wires and connectors etc. are all required to be 16A.

For anything which needs more power, we use 16A@3x400V balanced connections. I think that gives about the equivalent of 60A&240V or so but with much less copper needed. The 3 phases in question are 230V from the ground in turn, shifted by 60 120 degrees. This is usually socket-less but also industrial 3-phase sockets are common in homes when owner has a use for it. A common home connection is 3x25A.

All that is besides the point.

Festool sees value in providing their sanders with a slightly lighter cord. Actually, that is the cord type in use throughout the world.

To accommodate 110V/120V systems they have created a special high-amperage plug to allow the plug-it to work on those systems too even with the bigger tools.

If you think this was all to "save money" you are mistaken. These are peanuts in the production costs.

Just keep in mind, that the solution for such complains will be to ONLY offer the higher-amperage and heavier cables in the US market as carrying the lighter ones as only special accessories will not make sense.

The same way the US lost the light 3.1 Ah batteries as they would "be seen as weak". Despite the fact they exist because the are simply "the optimal thing for certain tasks".

 

[DeformedTree]

N.A. doesn't have a worse system. It has a more complete system.  We have 240VAC just like Europe, plus a 120V overlaid with it. We have the ability for devices to use both at the same time.  We have 3 phase power too, just not often run to single family residential homes. We have receptacle designs to handle every situation possible, while not trying to work around a once size fits all. I don't want a 50A plug for a clock, and I don't want to run a dryer on a 15A plug.

Many options are there because while nice, they aren't a must.  the 20A options on 120 and 240V circuits are there so if someone wants extra capacity it's there, they can have it built into the structure, but since 15A plugs work in 20A outlets (not the other way around) there is no drawback to adding the extra capacity. This is why as was mentioned, some folks just wire everything in 12 gauge, even if they intend to use a 15A breaker.

Having plug/receptacles vs a hardwire connections is great.  Buy a new dryer, plug it in, no electrician needed, buy a new range, plug it in, no electrician needed,  welder in the garage....plug it in.  Guest has an EV car and wants to plug it, not a problem.

They could have got rid of 120V stuff in the past, but it didn't happen.  Like a lot of things, there wasn't a great reason to, it worked. The US  plug has been around for over 100 years and keeps going. It's been unchanged for 1/2 century. I can plug most things into an outlet in a century old house that has original electrical system.  The focus is on safety, and why the plug got revisions such as polarization, grounding, tamper resistance, which didn't break compatibility.  Add to it safety like GFCI and AFCI.  Doubling the voltage is not something that increases safety, thus makes eliminating 120V something that won't happen.

 

[Coen]

Just like with Imperial this is the pain you endure when you stick to something else (110V) compared to the rest of the world (230V). In Europe we have 1 Plug-It Cord [well, per country..], so we don't have that problem. Nor do we have problems with the OF2200 and the vac running from one circuit.

With 110V the tradeoff is either incompatible cords or always using the heavier cord...

They could just use the heavier cord only, it would be fine. I don't think anyone in usage would even notice the difference.

We have 1 plug for a whole continent. Nema 5-15 is most likely the most common electrical plug on earth, it is not the issue.  Very few items ever run near 15A even at 110V. 

1 plug for a whole continent (ignoring Mexico) and then you go right ahead summing up a whole list of different sockets used, lol.

Vacuum cleaner, oven, hair dryer, paint stripper, OF2200, washing machine, water kettle; all items that usually are 10A at 230V and are connected to a regular socket here.

As most items got more efficient (tvs, computers, etc) most items barely use an amp.  So there is no reason to change things.  When we have big stuff, we have other plugs, such as those for ovens and such, these are far more powerful than the plugs you guys have. We have plugs that do 60A at 240V.  Many 110V circuits in our homes are 20A circuits. Code requires them in various places (bathrooms, kitchens).  Custom  built homes and such often have all their outlets as 20A.  Of course almost no appliance comes with a 20A plug, but that's ok, it means the circuit can handle more items at once.

Really? Everything in households is regular 16A Schuko and for the cooktop we have 3-phase, using same cross section wiring for 11,1 kW. Usually 1 per home. Or empty conduit in case the cooktop uses gas.

And even things like computer powersupplies run more efficient on 230V

For the big tools like the OF2200, Festool could have given it a 20A plug.

It doesn't? It has a 15A plug? So the US gets a nerfed OF2200? OF1650?

  They also could have gone to 240V, we have 15 and 20 plugs for that too.  They just aren't required by Code, so builders don't install them.  But folks wire them up in their shops and garages regularly to run tools that run on 240V.

240VAC is nice, but it's not without issues.  The main thing is safety.  US is 120VAC to ground/neutral, and due to split phase power, even when something is 240V, the potential is still 120V to ground, only directly across the pins is 240V, so you would have to short it and not ground out at the same time.  So there is a big safety benefit.  The trade off for some higher amps isn't much and few items push this limit. We wire with heavy gauge wiring, and high temp limits. Trying to use the smallest gauge wire is not a priority. A zap of 120V isn't pleasant, but you manage. A 240V zap is not good at all.  As has come up in various threads here. We are not amps limited in this country. The smallest legal service is 100A, standard is 200A, many homes have 400A services to them.  We don't have to concern ourselves with trying to use as few amps as possible for fear of running out. I'm not against the 240V stuff, but the focus on safety in this country makes elimination of 110V power very unlikely.

The lighter gauge cord is just something Festool never had to do.

The safety thing is taken care of by reduced risk of fire from currents half as big and partly insulated plugpins. Likelyhoid of getting zapped with 230V is enormously reduced. Use savings in copper for full coverage with 30mA RCD's. These stories of people zapping themselves by disconnecting their phonecharger are something US-only with the bare pins. Impossible with the europlug.

And that you guys in de US don't particularly seem to limit energy use is known yeah :+

 

[Coen]

N.A. doesn't have a worse system. It has a more complete system.  We have 240VAC just like Europe, plus a 120V overlaid with it. We have the ability for devices to use both at the same time.  We have 3 phase power too, just not often run to single family residential homes. We have receptacle designs to handle every situation possible, while not trying to work around a once size fits all. I don't want a 50A plug for a clock, and I don't want to run a dryer on a 15A plug.

Many options are there because while nice, they aren't a must.  the 20A options on 120 and 240V circuits are there so if someone wants extra capacity it's there, they can have it built into the structure, but since 15A plugs work in 20A outlets (not the other way around) there is no drawback to adding the extra capacity. This is why as was mentioned, some folks just wire everything in 12 gauge, even if they intend to use a 15A breaker.

Having plug/receptacles vs a hardwire connections is great.  Buy a new dryer, plug it in, no electrician needed, buy a new range, plug it in, no electrician needed,  welder in the garage....plug it in.  Guest has an EV car and wants to plug it, not a problem.

They could have got rid of 120V stuff in the past, but it didn't happen.  Like a lot of things, there wasn't a great reason to, it worked. The US  plug has been around for over 100 years and keeps going. It's been unchanged for 1/2 century. I can plug most things into an outlet in a century old house that has original electrical system.  The focus is on safety, and why the plug got revisions such as polarization, grounding, tamper resistance, which didn't break compatibility.  Add to it safety like GFCI and AFCI.  Doubling the voltage is not something that increases safety, thus makes eliminating 120V something that won't happen.

In the past we had 127V here and once 230V was decided on you could immediately change yourself by connecting circuits in between phases.

Seems you confuse 'more complete' with 'more confusing'.

Btw someone commented on 3-phase above being 60° apart; it's 120°

 

[Bob D.]

Me thinks its all about the money [wink] [wink].....  At the volume a company like Festool operates on, saving even $0.20 per item adds up to big bucks. 

I've mostly relegated the 16ga cords to the bottom shelf in the back of my shop.  Like others I've trimmed the tab off one or two cords....

I think any perceived savings is offset by additional costs of having to maintain near duplicate items in inventory  and all the other duplication associated with the two items. In the warehouse you have to create a unique space to stock each cord that are nearly identical and difficult to tell apart by eye without close inspection.

And then you create the aggregation for users with two cords.

It would be easier on all just to have the one cord rated for all Plug-It tools. And it would cost nothing to make the change, just include the 16Ga cord from here on out, and let the 18Ga cord fade away.