3D printing options

[HowardH]

I'm now catching the bug to get a 3D printer. I can see a lot of applications for it. Where's a good resource for files that have a woodworking application like printing router bit holders, etc? Any recommendations for a unit in the $1000 range? Looks like the  Bambu Labs have a good offering. This could be fun and addicting I think. 

 

[Doug H]

I use Thangs.com a lot. It searches multiple sites for 3D print files. I think Printables.com has the best listings and they also appear in Thangs.com search results.

I helped a school set up a Bambu Labs X-1 Carbon printer and if I didn't already own a 3D printer, I would definitely look at the offerings from Bambu Labs.

Doug

 

[rvieceli]

Folks I know really like PRUSA

Ron

 

[mwolczko]

Got my kid a Prusa MK3+ a few years ago with which he made many nice things. Now he’s off in college and I’m dabbling.  So far, I’m impressed by the documentation and support.  Give them a look.

 

[Mini Me]

We have had a Prusa for some years and it has been trouble free and saved us thousands of dollars in prototyping for production and also shortened prototyping by months if not longer which is why we bought it in the first place. 

 

[Packard]

The first 3D printer I ever saw was at a trade show for the injection molding industry.

The machine was the approximate size of a small-ish full height refrigerator.  It had a tiny window in which you could watch it work. 

Little items the size of a teacup took upwards of an hour.

As I recall, the machine was selling for $250,000.00.

I think you needed and advanced degree in computer programming to make the thing work. 

Their booth was next to our booth at the show. This would have been around 1982 to 1985.  I cannot remember more accurately. 

As I recall, they would program a part for a fee if you bought the machine.  It was meant to prevent costly design errors before building tooling.  As slow as it worked, no one imagined that it would be one day making production parts for Porsche.  (I read about the Porsche thing a few months back).

This is not the article I read, but perhaps the source material for that article:
https://media.porsche.com/mediakit/porsche-innovationen/en/porsche-innovationen/3d-printed-pistons#


Innovative pistons created in a 3D printer have successfully completed their first endurance test in the engine of a 911 GT2 RS. Additive manufacturing processes (3D printing) enable the realisation of designs that are not feasible using conventional methods. It was therefore possible to optimise the piston structure to correspond to load conditions and also to integrate a cooling duct, while at the same time reducing each piston's weight by 10 per cent in comparison with a production forged piston. “This has allowed us to increase engine speed, lower the temperature load on the pistons and optimise combustion,” explains Frank Ickinger of Porsche's Advance Drive Development Department. “The result is more power and greater efficiency.” This means that a power increase of up to 30 PS is possible for the 515 kW (700 PS) Porsche 911 GT2 RS. The pistons have been developed as part of a cooperative project to develop an additive manufacturing process for highly-stressed drive components in which Porsche is working together with its supplier and development partner Mahle as well as the advanced technology company Trumpf. It has also been possible to include a further project partner in the form of the optical company Zeiss, which brings expertise in measurement and testing processes for additive manufacturing.

 

[festal]

Currently 2 best options would be prusa MK4 (or MK3S+) or Bambu Labs X1
I have x1c with ams and its awesome.

 

[bobtskutter]

I bought a Prusa MK4 "for the kids" for christmas.  It was kit and fun to put together.
The machine is solid and easy to move around, you can pick it up by the metal frame the printer is assembled over.

I hope to use it for printing templates and installation guides.  And also to get the kids interested in making things.

It has an auto bed level system for EVERY print, so there's no manual adjustments to make.  I think other printers do this, but the Prusa design has a load sensor in the extruder to do the bed levelling.

It's not fast, it's slooooooooooooooooow.
If you use the InputShaper it becomes faster.  You can dial up the speed and maybe half print times.

Printing slowly is needed for dimensionally accurate parts.

I'm spending a lot of my free time drawing in FreeCAD, printing, measuring and then redrawing in FreeCAD to get things dimensionally accurate.
Filament needs to be dried before use otherwise you get all sorts of problems.

I think I spend 75% of my time playing & fidling then 25% of the time getting something useful.
If you buy a 3D printer it is likely to consume large amounts of your free time - or end up on the "your most disappointing woodworking purchase" thread.

Regards
Bob

 

[dashboardpws]

Bambu all the way.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I'm not big into 3-D printing but few years back I built the Lego Millennial Falcon and was looking for a display stand. I found some I liked on the Thingiverse site. I'm local to a Microcenter store and they had a coupon for the Creality Ender-3 V3 for $99. I see they have an updated version for $179. I don't use the printer much but it is easy to use and has paid for itself several times over.

 

[cdconey]

Bambu labs would probably be the best for ease of entry, but not the cheapest.

Another option would be to get an Ender 3 S1 and Sonic Pad ( or klipper on a Rasperry Pi ). 

Klipper is much better than Marlin for speed and settings. 

Unfortunately most of the machines are too small for what I need/want to print, so someday I will make a larger Core X-Y printer like the Voron when I get the time. 

 

[woodferret]

I'm now catching the bug to get a 3D printer. I can see a lot of applications for it. Where's a good resource for files that have a woodworking application like printing router bit holders, etc? Any recommendations for a unit in the $1000 range? Looks like the  Bambu Labs have a good offering. This could be fun and addicting I think.

Yeggi will search across thingiverse, printables, cults, and others.

I have a X1C/AMS.  Multi color printing is fun, but annoying slow and wasteful.  The AMS is acting more of a drybox than anything, but that feature is very convenient for me.  Note that if you want to print TPU or any really rigid carbon fiber filaments, you have to bypass the AMS.  Not too hard, but if you think you want to do that 100% of the time, then the AMS is a lead weight.

 

[woodwise]

IMHO the Prusa MK4 is the best option for durability. We have a bunch of them that run 24/7. The MK3S will easily go 10k hours with almost no maintenance and I expect the same from the MK4. The kit is a lot of work to put together (4~8 hours) and the more diligent you are the better. Also, don't forget to thoroughly lube the bearings (can't remember if they updated the instructions to do this).
The Prusa community is great, and the support is really good if anything goes wrong. If you go this option, you may consider the fully assembled version.
Print quality was OK on the MK3S, and much better on the MK4. Prusa puts a lot of time into the design of their machines and will offer support and an upgrade path for many years.

That said, the Bambu Labs printers are very fast and offer the closest to almost perfect out of the box prints as I have seen. I think we have about 5 of them now and 3 are down for repairs currently. We get about 1k hours out of them (on average) before somethings breaks. They are not easy to fix and though parts are very reasonably priced, they are often out of stock and a simple repair requires a huge amount of disassembly. The enclosure is also nice and lets you print more engineering grade plastics with less chances of warping.
I really like the Bambu printers and they have done a lot of work to deliver a machine that prints nice parts fast. In my opinion, reliability is not as high and there are lots of areas where they have cut corners to keep the price point low. From a price/performance perspective they make a compelling product.

 

[mino]

IMHO the Prusa MK4 is the best option for durability. We have a bunch of them that run 24/7. The MK3S will easily go 10k hours with almost no maintenance and I expect the same from the MK4. The kit is a lot of work to put together (4~8 hours) and the more diligent you are the better. Also, don't forget to thoroughly lube the bearings (can't remember if they updated the instructions to do this).
The Prusa community is great, and the support is really good if anything goes wrong. If you go this option, you may consider the fully assembled version.
Print quality was OK on the MK3S, and much better on the MK4. Prusa puts a lot of time into the design of their machines and will offer support and an upgrade path for many years.

That said, the Bambu Labs printers are very fast and offer the closest to almost perfect out of the box prints as I have seen. I think we have about 5 of them now and 3 are down for repairs currently. We get about 1k hours out of them (on average) before somethings breaks. They are not easy to fix and though parts are very reasonably priced, they are often out of stock and a simple repair requires a huge amount of disassembly. The enclosure is also nice and lets you print more engineering grade plastics with less chances of warping.
I really like the Bambu printers and they have done a lot of work to deliver a machine that prints nice parts fast. In my opinion, reliability is not as high and there are lots of areas where they have cut corners to keep the price point low. From a price/performance perspective they make a compelling product.

I would agree and digress at the same time.

If someone is just starting, the Prusa MINI+ is a better option. If it turns out an MK4 is what is called for, then the owner will already have some basic know-how to know why, what it brings, etc.

That said, to get better than an MK4, one would be looking at the industrial machines in the $3k+ range.

As for Bambulab ... these folks make what are essentially "consumer" (more like consumable) products. Effectively polished turds. Prusa's are workhorses which will last you a decade. AND will be software and hardware supported for that same decade. By which point the Bambu will be long gone on a landfill or recycled ..

 

[smorgasbord]

 

[mino]

...

Our MK2s (actually MK2.5s by now) Prusas have each about 50k + hours. Yes. 5+ years of non-stop printing equivalent.

And that is in a community hackerspace where all kinds of abuse are doled out on them, including wood dust, metal dust, fatty smoke from grilling inside (do not ask, erm) etc.

Printer parts wear out. As anything. What makes Prusa printer a Prusa printer are three main things:
- software/firmware support *), but that is not really "support", it is more like software maintenance contract, think of it more in context of you iPhone updates than a Makita or Festool "support" that just makes the thing run but does not improve its capability
- serviceability, every single small component can be purchased AND easily replaced, upgraded etc., or printed in case of all the plastic parts.
- that high-quality core components like the stepper motors are used, or a very special print head now on the MK4,

Is prusa the cheapest ? No.
The fastest ? No.
The bestest ? No.
The best combination of a reliable and maintainable workhose ? Absolutely.
Is it a better value over a Bambu printer over its 10+ years lifetime. Absolutely per before item.
Is it a better value as an occasional plug&play home printer that will be forgoten after a first year of "wow I can print". Absolutely not, go to Bambulab for that.

Nothing agains Bambulab. They made the first truly "consumer" printer of note. The same way Prusa made the first trully affordable-and-reliable printer of note with the MK2 series.
A "consumer printer" is something a Prusa i3 series printer never was, and probably will never be. They may make an enclosed lower-spec "consumer" printer eventually, but not today. They make only maintainable and tinker-able workhorses so far. including the XL.

If someone likes the tools of old which were passed from father to son, one would like Prusa printers. IMO for a Festool lower it is the right tool.
If someone like the modern "plug and play, no fuss" consumer products which are understood to have a limited lifetime but are cheaper /at the capability/, then one would love Bambulab and be relieved, as it is one of the first true no fuss "consumer" style 3D printers around.

If someone wants for a kid to learn, then Prusa MINI all the way, mainly for the straightforward ability to tinker with it - if desired. After that the kid will know enough to state own wishes - if interested still.

Nough said.
My 2c.

 

[AstroKeith]

Somethings to consider are size of print, and material used.

My theoretical print size is about 320mm cubed, but I found it best to keep away from the very edges. So I get 280mm cubed. A few times I've needed all of it.

Material. PLA is easy but not very stable with temperature and UV. ABS and ASA are much better all round, but make a nasty smell when printing and the fumes are toxic. The more stable materials also need heated chambers.

So for learning and experimenting an entry model as suggested is good, but you may soon want to upgrade. I went straight in for a upmarket machine (Qidi XMAX-3) and didnt regret it. The slicer is based on Prusa and the machine is managed with Klipper - both excellent.

 

[todd_fuller]

My 2 cents. I had a upper-end budget printer that was just a take-off of the Prusa. For anyone out there, don't go this route. It's a complete waste of time unless you want your hobby to now be making the printer work rather than printing things.

I bought a Bambu Lab X1C. I mainly print PLA since it's cheap and you don't need to worry about off gassing, filament drying, etc. I don't run a business and I just want a machine that prints my parts reliably and quickly. This does that. A Prusa will do that too, but will be a lot slower. CoreXY is just better for speed.

AMS is debatable. I have it, I don't use it much. It does offer some benefit for printing if a spool runs out, it can switch over. Be cautioned that if you let your filament get too brittle, AMS is a PITA to use. All depends on your use case though.

Regardless of what you buy, get an E3D CHT hot end or a clone. This will *dramatically* boost your speed. On the X1C, Bambu Lab plays some tricks with the flow rate so out of the box, they have higher speed options, but you usually cannot reach these for reliable printing. With better hot end, you can print the 1.5x motion speeds and still get good flow rate.

 

[woodferret]

Consumer printer term is kinda weird.  If anything, it reminds me of the old power tools of Delta, General, etc where they'd give you a parts diagram, the mfg part no, and support troubleshooting page in the manual before you hit customer service for assistance.  It's not the Apple or HP "Consumer" printer where you're expected trash the old and to grab a new one next year.

Like Prusa, there's an awful lot of handholding on the Bambu printers.  But you are also expected to understand, or develop an understanding of the physics of 3d printing - otherwise you're going to become frustrated.  The 'plug and play' marketing of Bambu can be a bit misleading.  It is a generalized power tool after all.

 

[tjbnwi]

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