About The Tool Contests

[Dave Ronyak]

Matthew,

I very muich like the idea of allowing a participant to post and then modify his/her project and photos and report and submit the "completed" effort as an entry into the tool contest.  That hopefully addresses the concern that the contest may impede disclosure of tool use ideas and tips.

Dave R.

 

[semenza]

Re: Ned's idea of sub categories.  Perhaps a number of rotating categories, (1) per month. 

May,   Best jig.
June   Best wood working project.
July,    Best ....
Aug,    Best...
Sept,   Back to best jig.

Or something like that.

Just a thought, Dan

Hi,

  This would help prevent having too few entries in each category.    Besides if they were all in one month that would be a lot of prizes to come up with.

Seth

 

[semenza]

Hi,

       O.K.   I just reread the entire thread.   The more I read the more I think that this seemingly simple concept for fun will not turn out to be so simple. One way or another.   I was going to post replies and thoughts on many points  made about this. But decided there are just too many to deal with.  It may seem that this whole deal is being blown way out of proportion. Maybe so.     But it is quite clear that many folks here have  been able to easily identify the problems.   They have also identified the good points.  That indicates to me that the fun , simple notion is just covering the surface of a whole pile of saw dust. I think that the basic idea is great. But if kept straight forward and simple , the result may not be so much a competition as a sort of random vote.
 
        Timmy Cs "junkie" contest, seemed to work pretty well though. But I was surprised at how few people voted in that. 

       I find myself in agreement with just about all of points / comments regardless of the positive or negative  ??? Maybe I am nuts on this time will tell.

Seth

 

[dltflt]

I like the idea of having a different catagory each month.  Although that will not get people to post thier projects which is Matthew's objective.

 

[jonny round boy]

Further to Dan/Ned's ideas on a 'rotating category' type system, how about a system of retrospective prizes?

This, I imagine, would work in a similar way to an annual award ceremony, but with one category being awarded each month.

Let's say you had 6 categories, for example; Best home building/renovation project, Best furniture project, Best jig, Best adult/child project, Best design project, and Best finishing technique.

In month one, you ask members to nominate the best home building/renovating projects from the last 6 months, and then vote a winner.

In month two, you do the same for furniture projects for the last 6 months, and so on and so on.

In month seven, you go back to the same as month one.

Note: there doesn't NEED to be 6 categories, it would work with any number (though 6 or 12 would be logical). If you had 12, then obviously you'd ask for nominations from the past 12 months, and if 8, then 8 months.

Doing it this way, everyone can post projects as they do now with no need to change the way they're posted, and no need to 'hold back' from posting. There's no time issues involved, so any project posted at any time will always be eligible for the relevant category once (and once only) eventually.

So to start, on 1st May you would ask for nominations for 'best home building/renovating project' posted within the last 6 months. You could have 2 weeks to gather nominations, after which you have 2 weeks for judging. Then the winner can be announced on 1st June, along with asking for nominations for the second category.

I think this would work well, and be fairly easy to administer. The hardest part would be choosing the categories!!!

 

[Matthew Schenker]

jonny,
What you're saying about the time period for nominations is covered in the fact that any project submitted at any time can be considered in the contest.  I made that change based on nickao's point about people holding back on submitting.  Now that I have thought about the "open" deadline, I see many other benefits to it, so thanks to nickao for challenging me with that issue!

OK, it seems we have a lot of support for rotating contest subjects.  That's great.  Because of the open-deadlines concept, a rotating schedule works even better.  We could have a schedule like this, for example...

• May 2008: Projects (including adult/child projects)
• June 2008: Jigs and Inventions
• July 2008: How-To
• August 2008: Projects

...And so on from there.

People can continue submitting projects and jigs at any time.  That will also allow a good number of entries to build up in between.

One last question needs to be addressed: choosing winners.  I've mentioned using polls, but that can be confusing, difficult to manage, and often gets too few responses.  The other way to do it is to have judges.  I've received e-mails from several members offering to be judges.  That sounds better than a poll.  We could have a panel of three to five judges.  They would all be respected members of the forum.  We'd work out a way to come up with winners each month.  The judge panel could rotate each month, or it could remain the same.  For example, the winner of the previous month's contest could become a judge the next month (of course, judges would not be eligible to compete).

I think this is moving in a good direction.  It may seem confusing now, as we have this messy debate, but I have confidence that in the end we'll come up with a terrific contest system.

Matthew

 

[The Dude]

jonny,
What you're saying about the time period for nominations is covered in the fact that any project submitted at any time can be considered in the contest.  I made that change based on nickao's point about people holding back on submitting.  Now that I have thought about the "open" deadline, I see many other benefits to it, so thanks to nickao for challenging me with that issue!

OK, it seems we have a lot of support for rotating contest subjects.  That's great.  Because of the open-deadlines concept, a rotating schedule works even better.  We could have a schedule like this, for example...

• May 2008: Projects (including adult/child projects)
• June 2008: Jigs and Inventions
• July 2008: How-To
• August 2008: Projects

...And so on from there.

People can continue submitting projects and jigs at any time.  That will also allow a good number of entries to build up in between.

One last question needs to be addressed: choosing winners.  I've mentioned using polls, but that can be confusing, difficult to manage, and often gets too few responses.  The other way to do it is to have judges.  I've received e-mails from several members offering to be judges.  That sounds better than a poll.  We could have a panel of three to five judges.  They would all be respected members of the forum.  We'd work out a way to come up with winners each month.  The judge panel could rotate each month, or it could remain the same.  For example, the winner of the previous month's contest could become a judge the next month (of course, judges would not be eligible to compete).

I think this is moving in a good direction.  It may seem confusing now, as we have this messy debate, but I have confidence that in the end we'll come up with a terrific contest system.

Matthew

Matthew count me in as for donating the prize for the Kids Contest....

I would offer a ETS 125 with 50ish bucks of sandpaper as first prize award, and and then incremental Gift Certs for the second and third place prizes.

PS.  I still think that we / judges should put forward 3-5 plans to choose from.  This will take away from the creative side of things (I know, I know) but it will set an equal playing field.

Timmy

 

[Fred West]

Timmy C., I love your idea and think that it adds so much to this board. Putting your proposed projects in conjunction with FestoolUSA's/Matthew's and we have a marvelous opportunity to see not only the various and sundry ways that the Festool tools can be used but the beauty of parents and children working together as maybe they have never been able to before. What a great set of ideas and what a marvelous place to have it happen. Fred

 

[Per Swenson]

Hi,

I e mailed Matthew my opinion and its only that.

Ever seen a decision made by committee?

Ever seen a Harmonious committee?

Ever seen politics enter a committees decision making process?

Only two ways to go here.

Elect Pico the Festool dog sole Judge or

Let Matthew be the sole judge, jury and executioner.

I see no reason that he would not be able to listen to suggestions

on democratic principle. But still.

This would stifle controversy and anyones hurt feelings.

Per

 

[tvgordon]

Matthew,

Has Festool USA stated how long they plan on supporting the contest?  I think it's great that they have generously supplied the prizes and that you have agreed to spend the time and effort on the contest.  Thank you both!

I'm still concerned about how the projects will be judged.  A beginner who just owns one Festool and has a limited budget would be at a disadvantage to the pro who owns a dozen Festools and builds on the client's dime.  Also, many hobbyist build fewer projects a year - hence fewer projects to enter.  I know it would be difficult for me to vote for a simple bread box over an elaborate project build flawlessly out of exotic woods.

And to John, as a side note, while I'm glad (and maybe a little jealous) that most members can afford to buy any Festool they want, this is not the case with all members. Until I get a few more debts paid off, I'm doing good to buy a tool a year and welcome the chance to be able to add to my tool collection a little earlier than planned.

Tom.

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Well, Tom, I understand what you are saying, I'd like to see the projects be judged by the best thread the member puts together, not necessarily the best or highest quality project. An example, is Eiji's entry, his work is outstanding! However, its not that exciting of a thread. No pictures of the building process, not much of a description of the build. Members haven't learned much from his thread.

  I think if we look at the overall quality not just the finished project it would help level the playing field for all members.

 

[joraft]

And to John, as a side note, while I'm glad (and maybe a little jealous) that most members can afford to buy any Festool they want, this is not the case with all members. Until I get a few more debts paid off, I'm doing good to buy a tool a year and welcome the chance to be able to add to my tool collection a little earlier than planned.

Tom, I do understand that it's not the case with all members, which is why I said MOST. And it does seem to me that MOST around here somehow find a way to get the particular Festools they REALLY want or need.

As for me, I'm realistic enough about my abilities not to count too heavily on winning contests to build my Festool collection, I've been financing that by selling my wife's stuff anyway.  After seeing the MFK700 and OF2200, I'm wondering if she'd notice if her car was missing, which would also end the fight over use of the garage. That would be a win/win (with of course both wins in my column).

John

 

[Matthew Schenker]

  Well, Tom, I understand what you are saying, I'd like to see the projects be judged by the best thread the member puts together, not necessarily the best or highest quality project. An example, is Eiji's entry, his work is outstanding! However, its not that exciting of a thread. No pictures of the building process, not much of a description of the build. Members haven't learned much from his thread.

  I think if we look at the overall quality not just the finished project it would help level the playing field for all members.

Excellent points, Brice!  The idea here is to have a contest where people really push themselves -- not just in what they build but how they share what they build.  It all should be factored in.

OK, thinking about what Per said, maybe I should judge the contests myself?  I don't mind doing that, but I'd feel better if I had at least two experienced woodworkers weiging in as well.  Anyone want to be a friendly judge?

Matthew

 

[jonny round boy]

Well, since I can't enter (as I'm in the UK), I'd be happy to be a judge for the competition. Maybe you could find a whole panel of NINA judges? Christian A. and Eli spring instantly to mind!

 

[joraft]

OK, thinking about what Per said, maybe I should judge the contests myself?  I don't mind doing that, but I'd feel better if I had at least two experienced woodworkers weiging in as well.  Anyone want to be a friendly judge?

Matthew, while I still don't favor the idea of a drawing, I'm beginning to better understand the position of those in that camp. It seems to me that whoever the judge(s) is/are they may often find themselves in an uncomfortable position. And that could especially apply to you.

John

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Well, since one could argue that my suggestions for judging criteria is an attempt to sway the contest towards the type of information sharing I've already done here on FOG. So, I'd be willing to remove myself from the contest and be a judge, what do you guys think?

  I'd like to have time to start a thread in the photography section, "Taking better pictures for beginners". With the idea of helping people who don't have experience taking pictures for the Internet, so members can improve their picture taking skills for the contest. Not professional stuff, but ideas to get better results with inexpensive cameras.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

It seems that so far we have three basic ideas:

A raffle or random drawing from everyone who submits a project that month
A vote from all the members for the best project
One or more judges who decide on the best project

How about a mixture of these? For example, members could vote for the best three projects, and then a random drawing could be made to select the winner. Or some judges could select the best five, and then leave it up to the members to cast the final vote.

One of my worries about having a total random drawing is that the winning project might not be much good. Having a random drawing to short-list the candidates, and then putting it to the members or some judges for a vote, would lessen the possibility of this happening.

Forrest

 

[Fred West]

As for me, I'm realistic enough about my abilities not to count too heavily on winning contests to build my Festool collection, I've been financing that by selling my wife's stuff anyway.  After seeing the MFK700 and OF2200, I'm wondering if she'd notice if her car was missing, which would also end the fight over use of the garage. That would be a win/win (with of course both wins in my column).

John

[/quote]

John, I like your attitude but wonder about your direction? I mean, heck yeah, I am getting the MFK700 and probably the OF2200 but what about the Kapex man?? I do understand that you may need to step it up and sell your wife rather than her stuff but man up!!!! 8) Fred

 

[PaulW]

Matthew,

Has Festool USA stated how long they plan on supporting the contest?  I think it's great that they have generously supplied the prizes and that you have agreed to spend the time and effort on the contest.  Thank you both!

I'm still concerned about how the projects will be judged.  A beginner who just owns one Festool and has a limited budget would be at a disadvantage to the pro who owns a dozen Festools and builds on the client's dime.  Also, many hobbyist build fewer projects a year - hence fewer projects to enter.  I know it would be difficult for me to vote for a simple bread box over an elaborate project build flawlessly out of exotic woods.

And to John, as a side note, while I'm glad (and maybe a little jealous) that most members can afford to buy any Festool they want, this is not the case with all members. Until I get a few more debts paid off, I'm doing good to buy a tool a year and welcome the chance to be able to add to my tool collection a little earlier than planned.

Tom.

I totally agree Tom.
I am in the same boat as you for tool buying right now.

 

[joraft]

John, I like your attitude but wonder about your direction? I mean, heck yeah, I am getting the MFK700 and probably the OF2200 but what about the Kapex man?? I do understand that you may need to step it up and sell your wife rather than her stuff but man up!!!! 8) Fred

Fred, her car is pretty nice, so there should be enough for the Kapex too. But I'll have to be sure to set aside something to get her a bicycle, without her car she'll need SOME way to get around. I'll even move my woodworking equipment some to create a little spot for it in the garage.

Sometimes I'm just so thoughtful. 

John