cdconey
Member
Have you measured your MFS when assembled in a square/Rectangle to see if it is exactly square?
Accuracy and the MFS as a Squaring Jig
- Thread starter Hotwheels
- Start date
A good reference square is useful to have in the shop. I have some smaller ones, but larger one would also have usefulness, especially for working with the MFT. The Woodpecker square seems to be a quality product. Since I have been pleased with products from Mr. Bennett, I ordered one of his 18" squares as a large reference square for my shop. Here is the link ... http://www.ts-aligner.com/accessories.htm The squares are at the bottom of the page. I am sure there are many other choices, but I know his other products so this is what I am going to try.
fidelfs
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- Mar 2, 2007
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I had so many issues with the mft and square cuts that I have decided some time ago that I will use my mft only for assembly and manual labor.
My trusty Unisaw and the incra 5000 are the king for my cross cuts.
I don't get it why to go to this extreme ways to use the mft when it is not accurate. Rails are not square to the top, fences are not square, etc.
It is a great assembly table and much more uses but not for square cuts. I remember when I started my hobby somebody told me you should use the right tool for the right job. I still follow that advise.
Festool has wonderful tools and some tools not that good. I in love with the Domino and the TS55, I don't like the jigsaw. I don't like the plastic accessories for the domino.
Just my opinion.
My trusty Unisaw and the incra 5000 are the king for my cross cuts.
I don't get it why to go to this extreme ways to use the mft when it is not accurate. Rails are not square to the top, fences are not square, etc.
It is a great assembly table and much more uses but not for square cuts. I remember when I started my hobby somebody told me you should use the right tool for the right job. I still follow that advise.
Festool has wonderful tools and some tools not that good. I in love with the Domino and the TS55, I don't like the jigsaw. I don't like the plastic accessories for the domino.
Just my opinion.
Steve Jones
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- Dec 23, 2007
- Messages
- 405
I read through this astonishing saga of heartbreak, anguish, and excessive investment with shock.
Tool collectors, stop here - do not read any further, you're going to hate me.
I mean it, if you love to have the latest and most expensive tools to impress you neighbors, stop reading, this message is for carpenters only.
1. Get a piece of plywood, about 6' x 3' is ideal, Run the long sides on your tablesaw, they MUST be parallel), make your best setup to bisect it (cut it in the middle through the width), flip one side and put both against a straight edge (cut edges together), if the joint pushed together is anything other than perfect it will form a "V" (You own a good long straight edge, your TS55 guide)
2. adjust your 90 angle and re-cut - repeat until the joint is perfect.
3. Once your cut lines meet up perfectly, you will have two squares, each with one perfect right angle joint, at least (and in my experience MORE accurate) than most store brought squares. Mark these pieces to keep track of which are the two "good" edges (those with a true right angle between them).
4. Now your MFT or cutting arrangement is set up perfectly.... place one of the new squares with one good edge against the fence and one ready to be cut a 3" strip from the good edge. make a cut stopping 2 inches from the far edge.
5. Flip the piece so the last cut is close to the fence on the MFT and make another cut like the last one, you just made a very accurate square.
6. repeat steps 4 and five to make more (smaller) squares.
(When I did this I ended up with a matching, accurate set of squares, ranging in size from 3' down to about 6") they are accurate inside and out, cost the price of a small piece of plywood, you made them yourself (you ARE trying to be a carpenter aren't you?)
Now your MFT (or other cutting arrangement) is accurate, and you have a full set of squares to keep it that way.
not only did you make a full set of squares, they are cheaply replaceable, if you need to shorten one leg of one to check cabinets (yes, did that) drill holes in them to fit clamps for making box clamps for square boxes (or any square glue up) (did that too).
Those of you who really, really want to spend money on simple accessories, I will be marketing these wonder tools soon under the brand "Fesfool" for only $399.95 a set (watch this space for developments)
For the rest of you - do a little carpentry guys, sometimes that involes solving a problem by cutting some wood.
Tool collectors, stop here - do not read any further, you're going to hate me.
I mean it, if you love to have the latest and most expensive tools to impress you neighbors, stop reading, this message is for carpenters only.
1. Get a piece of plywood, about 6' x 3' is ideal, Run the long sides on your tablesaw, they MUST be parallel), make your best setup to bisect it (cut it in the middle through the width), flip one side and put both against a straight edge (cut edges together), if the joint pushed together is anything other than perfect it will form a "V" (You own a good long straight edge, your TS55 guide)
2. adjust your 90 angle and re-cut - repeat until the joint is perfect.
3. Once your cut lines meet up perfectly, you will have two squares, each with one perfect right angle joint, at least (and in my experience MORE accurate) than most store brought squares. Mark these pieces to keep track of which are the two "good" edges (those with a true right angle between them).
4. Now your MFT or cutting arrangement is set up perfectly.... place one of the new squares with one good edge against the fence and one ready to be cut a 3" strip from the good edge. make a cut stopping 2 inches from the far edge.
5. Flip the piece so the last cut is close to the fence on the MFT and make another cut like the last one, you just made a very accurate square.
6. repeat steps 4 and five to make more (smaller) squares.
(When I did this I ended up with a matching, accurate set of squares, ranging in size from 3' down to about 6") they are accurate inside and out, cost the price of a small piece of plywood, you made them yourself (you ARE trying to be a carpenter aren't you?)
Now your MFT (or other cutting arrangement) is accurate, and you have a full set of squares to keep it that way.
not only did you make a full set of squares, they are cheaply replaceable, if you need to shorten one leg of one to check cabinets (yes, did that) drill holes in them to fit clamps for making box clamps for square boxes (or any square glue up) (did that too).
Those of you who really, really want to spend money on simple accessories, I will be marketing these wonder tools soon under the brand "Fesfool" for only $399.95 a set (watch this space for developments)
For the rest of you - do a little carpentry guys, sometimes that involes solving a problem by cutting some wood.
Me either, Eli, I routinely take the fence and rail off and return them to square without any tweaking. I also have little trouble setting the MFS to a square rectangle. I just set the ends below flush to the sides by the least amount detectable with my finger (about .0005", +/-.0003" 
) and check with a pencil line. It is always within a few thou by eye over the 400mm length. Close enough.
Steve is right, though, that we get awfully hung up on these things when there are simple solutions around. I haven't taken his approach because I have not needed to. If I had to fuss then I would make up some squares and be done with it. I think we sometimes fall into the trap that we should be able to be accurate without exersizing any care at all and that when we don't get that accuracy we can blame the tool instead of the technique.
) and check with a pencil line. It is always within a few thou by eye over the 400mm length. Close enough.Steve is right, though, that we get awfully hung up on these things when there are simple solutions around. I haven't taken his approach because I have not needed to. If I had to fuss then I would make up some squares and be done with it. I think we sometimes fall into the trap that we should be able to be accurate without exersizing any care at all and that when we don't get that accuracy we can blame the tool instead of the technique.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2007
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I've only had my MFS for the better part of a week. I've read the complaints about squaring it up and according to my squares it is as square as square can be.
Last night I took a chunk of plywood and using a long profile as a fence squared up to my guide rail on my MFT I made a perfectly square .... square.
I've come up with a couple of brackets which attach the Extension profile (known as a fence in this operation) to my MFS 700 and make it easy to slide the MFS 700 back and forth without using quick clamps or clamps below the table. I'll post pics tonight on this bracket. Tried to last night but the camera battery was dead.
I haven't pulled out my digital calipers or anything like that. Just simply held up the newly cut piece of wood and checked for light through my engineer's square on all four sides
Dan C
Last night I took a chunk of plywood and using a long profile as a fence squared up to my guide rail on my MFT I made a perfectly square .... square.
I've come up with a couple of brackets which attach the Extension profile (known as a fence in this operation) to my MFS 700 and make it easy to slide the MFS 700 back and forth without using quick clamps or clamps below the table. I'll post pics tonight on this bracket. Tried to last night but the camera battery was dead.
I haven't pulled out my digital calipers or anything like that. Just simply held up the newly cut piece of wood and checked for light through my engineer's square on all four sides
Dan C
Let me close the loop on this issue since I started the thread ... I checked the MFS for square when it arrived and found some problems. I did not know the source of the problems, but it was not producing square cuts after following JWs suggested setup procedure. After some problem solving, I then closely examining one element of the MFS, it seemed as if there was a small dent on the edge of the profile that resulted in the out of square condition. I suspect this happened in shipping.
Bob Marino helped to get a replacement piece and when I checked the replacement, all was fine. There are times when it is more convenient to use the MFT/MFS for making cross cuts and other times it is easier to use the table saw. I like having the options based on the project and work flow ...
Bob Marino helped to get a replacement piece and when I checked the replacement, all was fine. There are times when it is more convenient to use the MFT/MFS for making cross cuts and other times it is easier to use the table saw. I like having the options based on the project and work flow ...
Dave Ronyak
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- Jan 23, 2007
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fidelfs said:
I'll add my second. I used the table saw last night to rip a 3" x 64" piece from a ~ 10" W strip of birch ply because I had the rest of the hollow door box I was building already set up on my joined MFTs. Save me a lot of time.
Dave R.
Steve Jones said:
Awww, Steve, so very unfestoolian! We can be so much like magpies, attaracted to the bright accessories and doodads that catch our eye.
I've used your idea for the square to assemble cabinet cases for years. I cut plywood scrap with square corners, cut an inner slot to take the head of an F clamp and we're off to the races. It's a great use for smaller pieces of ply that would otherwise go in the dumpster and I can make a bunch in less than 20 minutes. I already have a bunch of F clamps, so I'm OK there. It beats spending the money on a Klampet system.
They'd even fit into a systainer! ;D
I guess I'm a little suprised how much a MFS costs, it is after all, t-slot aluminum framing. You can make your own for about 1/3rd the cost?
Steveo48 said:
A number of people have explored this, including me. If you view all the manufacturing of an MFS as chopping extrusion, it sure is expensive.
95% of the MFS engineering is in the extrusion itself. Other extrusions might work for a particular MFS-like use, but can't compare with the real thing for versatility. It's "just like an MFS" except it's thicker than it needs to be (limits depth of cut) or doesn't have the clamps or pins, or it's not as wide, or, or...
As I said, a number of us tried. To date, no one's announced that they've built something with all the flexibility and accuracy of an MFS.
I bought an MFS kit, and I've been back for more. Worth every penny.
Ned
Yeah, I agree with the above. It's a fairly common male trait to say you can make one yourself. I didn't realize how often I said it until my wife starting calling me on it every time. You shouldn't be surprised by the cost of the MFS. Even if you went to an extrusion manufacturer and had them replicate the pins and v-nuts, it would be more expensive, if not in parts alone, then when you added in your time.
If you're the guy that likes messing around with something forever to get something that works sort of like the original, go for it. Post a video when you're done. But you'll never convince me you got the better deal. I'd rather just buy it and have it do what it's supposed to. I'm way over fiddling around with stuff when I could just be getting the work done.
If you're the guy that likes messing around with something forever to get something that works sort of like the original, go for it. Post a video when you're done. But you'll never convince me you got the better deal. I'd rather just buy it and have it do what it's supposed to. I'm way over fiddling around with stuff when I could just be getting the work done.
Steve Jones
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- Dec 23, 2007
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Steveo48 said:Awww, Steve, so very unfestoolian! We can be so much like magpies, attaracted to the bright accessories and doodads that catch our eye.
I've used your idea for the square to assemble cabinet cases for years. I cut plywood scrap with square corners, cut an inner slot to take the head of an F clamp and we're off to the races. It's a great use for smaller pieces of ply that would otherwise go in the dumpster and I can make a bunch in less than 20 minutes. I already have a bunch of F clamps, so I'm OK there. It beats spending the money on a Klampet system.
They'd even fit into a systainer! ;D
Steve, you're not fooling me with your claim for magpie tendancies, you're a carpenter! you let slip that comment about making your own tools when appropriate!
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Eli said:
I personally think this is just one mis-understood tool. When you look at it in the catalog you think who would pay all that money for 4 pieces of aluminum extrusion.
You really need to see them in person and try them to realize they are quite powerful and useful. I do wish they would change some things on the extrusions but am very happy I have a MFS 700 with the extra long profiles.
Dan C
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