Advance - orange peel

[mrFinpgh]

All set up and about to start sanding.  I need to find my headphones first!!

I was reading the TDS for Advance, and they specify applying at a thickness of 3mil wet.  I've never really thought too much about these specs, but decided to look into it.  3mil is basically a sheet of newsprint paper.  I would guess I was applying it at something close to double that.  So I think I may need to roll it a little thinner somehow, but without over-working the paint.

How would folks do this on a set of pieces?  Roll some out onto each piece and then spread it? 

Thanks,
Adam

 

[tiralie]

How would folks do this on a set of pieces? 

if you weren't happy the 3/8" nap use the mohair rollers . The mohair rollers have almost no nap. When first using the roller I like to use them on a scrap piece first and get them primed and then roll. They work better after the first cleaning and rinse out.

Roll some out onto each piece and then spread it? 

No, put paint into a pan, load the roller and roll onto the substrate.
Resist the urge to roll back and forth to correct the nap. Just make sure you have an even coverage and it should level out. If it doesn't thin (to 10%) until it does.

 

[w802h]

I was rolling Advance on cabinets this week and have been interested in this thread.  I initially used a Whiz roller with the velour cover so that the narrow diameter would roll right into corners, but I found the roller slid more than it rolled unless I had almost no paint on the roller. 

I had better luck with the mohair roller covers that go on a slightly bigger frame.  I liked those results better.  I may prefer to deliver more paint up front so I always start a freshly loaded in the field, going along corners, edges, etc. with less paint on the roller. 

 

[mrFinpgh]

if you weren't happy the 3/8" nap use the mohair rollers . The mohair rollers have almost no nap. When first using the roller I like to use them on a scrap piece first and get them primed and then roll. They work better after the first cleaning and rinse out.

I think the 3/8 nap was pretty good. The velour nap definitely wasn't enough.  I have the roller I used the other day in a bag right now to keep it from drying out.  I'm curious to see if it performs better now that it has some paint on it.

After spending some quality time (hours) with my sander this afternoon, I have all 25 pieces sanded to 150 and they are extremely smooth.  About a third of those pieces only had primer, and they took a lot of sanding to get a completely flat surface.  A lot of burn-through, so I may need to just re-prime a lot of it.  I think my primer coat was not so good, and this escalated with the additional paint coats.  It might be another issue with roller technique - maybe I'm overworking it and putting it on too thick.

I'm interested in how you are able to gauge how 'loaded' the roller ought to be for rolling onto, say, a 10" x 30" shelf.  For me, I often start of with a roller that is very loaded and puts down a thick initial deposit of paint.  This lasts for a little while, and then it's thinner and I'm redistributing the initial load.  The way I'm imagining what you describe, I envision somehow having a more consistently loaded roller and then just making this consistent strokes with little overlap.  But that doesn't seem like it would be right - maybe that's based on my previous painting experiences.

I watched a video this evening about using Advance, and the guy recommended laying off the paint after completing a section.  They all seem to emphasize not using too much paint.  I've been wanting to avoid starving the finish, but at this point I've probably spent 20-30x more time sanding the paint than painting.

-Adam

 

[frodo]

Went thru the same process as you on a large built in closet about a year ago. Painting and sanding over and over because of orange peel finish. Never did find a roller that laid down paint to my satisfaction. Now I know I just didn't have the right touch (skill) to roll/brush to a finish that I thought was acceptable. Finally gave up and bought an HVLP. That came with it's own learning curve for spraying paint. It also was not very fun spraying inside small cubbies.

I've since moved to SW Idaho and have found a whole new dimension of issues when trying to paint in a wide range of temperatures. Especially the cold. I have much more respect for these guys that can figure all these variables out and still lay down a beautiful finish.

 

[mrFinpgh]

I actually just gave it another shot this evening.  I found a few things made a big difference:

1 - I made sure to 'pre-load' my roller by getting it saturated with paint for about half an hour.  Dampening with water always seems to work out poorly for me, so this seemed better.

2 - I 'unloaded' a lot of the paint into the tray before putting the roller on the surface.

3 - I rolled and laid off a lot slower than I had been.  I was rolling a 9' x 8' wall of beadboard in a navy blue, so it's pretty obvious where I lost my focus and rolled at my habitual speed.  Where I rolled about twice as slow, the surface is glass-like.  Where I rolled faster, there is a bit more texture. 

4 - On a couple pieces that are destined for bookcase backs, my girlfriend tipped off with a brush after I rolled it out.  That also looks fantastic.

I'm ambivalent about how much I'm interested in sanding back the orange peel on the wall. It's not as egregious as it was on the bookcase parts (which I need to hit with 220 still).  I'm wondering if I should scuff sand, put down another coat, and then see how much texture I'm dealing with.  Given how thin this stuff goes down (1.5 mil dry if I'm doing it right), it sort of feels risky to go too crazy on the sanding right now.  Especially since this is the 3/16th hardboard paneling style beadboard.

-Adam

 

[tiralie]

... my girlfriend tipped off with a brush after I rolled it out.  That also looks fantastic.

She sounds like a keeper.

I'm wondering if I should scuff sand, put down another coat, and then see how much texture I'm dealing with. 

On a more serious note, most walls have some texture so it would probably be acceptable. It depends on the look you or more importantly your girl friend wants. Sanding and laying done another coat, won't hurt and you will get lots of practice.
Tim

 

[mrFinpgh]

She sounds like a keeper.

For sure! She actually was the one to encourage me to take the dive into Festool territory.

On a more serious note, most walls have some texture so it would probably be acceptable. It depends on the look you or more importantly your girl friend wants. Sanding and laying done another coat, won't hurt and you will get lots of practice.

I'm going to wait and see how severe it is after this next coat.  I need to remind myself that this is not something I'm going to be examining from 6" away most of the time. 

I was looking at the pre-primed finish on some of the poplar I ordered for this project, and it's actually just as orange-peel textured as my roller finish.

Either way, I've determined that the main culprit in all of this is probably my primer coat.  I am using Zinsser primecoat2 and it just does not level.  It goes on pretty thick, and stays pretty much as the roller leaves it.  I really like using the shellac primer, but heard this stuff was good for trim too. 

Anyways, I thinned it out some this morning -- about 3oz of warm water in 1/2 gallon of primer.  I also switched to a foam brush.  This seems to be working way, way, better than the roller cover did. There are some brush marks, and it's a little slower, but it's going to be much easier to knock this back as compared to the roller texture - it's going on thinner and the texture is a lot less deep.

Hopefully someone will be able to refer to this in their own misadventures in the future.  8)

-Adam

 

[tiralie]

I am using Zinsser primecoat2 and it just does not level.

Adam:
Primer coat must be sanded if you want it to be smooth.
If you want the texture, the finish coat will amplify the texture.
If the primer is smooth the finish coat will level.
Tim

 

[mrFinpgh]

Hi Tim,

Typically, how much sanding would you expect to do on the primer coat?

I plan for some, but expect with a RO sander, it shouldn't take me more than 10 minutes per board on a single grit.  Maybe I have inaccurate expectations, though. 

I'm used to (with BIN) being able to go directly to 220 with a sanding sponge and have it smooth in a matter of minutes.  I don't usually sand my walls beyond sanding out mud, so I'm not used to sanding back latex primers.  Maybe they are harder to sand? 

Either way, with the thinned primer and brushed application, I was able to get it smooth very easily this afternoon.

-Adam

 

[tiralie]

Typically, how much sanding would you expect to do on the primer coat?

It depends. But usually I sand till it powders up and is smooth to the touch. Doesn't take that much effort even when hand sanding. I don't sand after priming my walls.

Either way, with the thinned primer and brushed application, I was able to get it smooth very easily this afternoon.

Good to hear. I would skip the thinning of the primer, sand and coat for cabinetry and just coat for walls.
Tim