After years of box building...

[Jonhilgen]

So after years (about ten), I finally get a chance to build a piece of furniture for a client.  I don't have the job yet, but I need to get a quote together stat.  But I can't do that until I figure out how to replicate the pattern on the table in the picture.

The client wants to match her existing dining room furniture, but the company discontinued the line.  Luckily for me, I
was doing some work in her kitchen and here we are.

First;  veneer type.  I know its cherry, but the longer/thinner sections? (edit:  found out it is a medium to low burled ash, thanks to Certainly Wood)

Second;  how in the heck do I do this pattern?  Do I veneer larger sections on to plywood, cut them up then assemble like a puzzle?  Or do I cut each piece of veneer to size and carefully glue to one piece of plywood? (glue type?) \

Third: how do I do the door?  Do I veneer four sections onto a cherry raised panel door?

Edit:  how do I do it without a vacuum press?  

Ten years as a cabinetmaker, and no experience with veneer...good grief.

Thanks ahead of time.

Jon

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Jon,
That's a doozy.  My quote would be something like "all the paella in Barcelona."

Here's a few thoughts:

1. Matching existing furniture is a bear.  Its next to impossible to get the color and grain patterns exactly the same.  If you get the job, I suggest the first thing you might do would be to prepare a sample of the veneer and the solid pieces and get the customer's sign-off that this is the color she will pay for.  Don't wait until the end for that, they almost never buy off on the first sample and you sure don't want to have to sand and refinish a done piece.

2. When you are ready to buy the veneer, just take some good clear pictures of the pieces (no napkins, etc.) and send them to a veneer distributor.  I use www.certainlywood.com.  Tell them you need to match that and they will propose specific lots of veneer, you will probably be able to see a picture online.

3.  I wouldn't worry a lot about the color of the veneers.  You will need to develop those colors with your finish, probably a combination of dyes and glazes.

4.  Typically, the process would be to color the two types of veneer, then slice them into the desired shapes.  The assemblies are made by taping the pieces together with special veneer tape, which is scraped off after the glueup.  Once all the assemblies are taped together they are glued onto plywood or mdf (I use MDF, its flatter and more stable).  Lots of different glues will workVA, epoxy, plastic resin, hide glue.  I use Titebond Cold Press, a pva type glue.  For the tabletop, you will need a vacuum bag and pump to apply even pressure.  Your piece will need to be veneered on both sides at the same time or it will cup.  The bottom side can be veneered with inexpensive veneer.  The problem is that you will put a lot of glue on the surface (= moisture) and if one side is wet and the other isn't it will cup.

5.  If you haven't done veneer before, since this is a pretty complicated job, you might want to sub that part out.  If you do it yourself, practice a few times on cheap veneer before you cut up the money wood.

6.  Judging from the consistency in the original, I wonder if the pattern wasn't just printed on a piece of laminate....

7.  This will be a lot of work, don't shortchange yourself on that bid!

Hope some of this helps, sorry I ran on so.
Jess

 

[Jonhilgen]

Jess,

Thanks for the input, it is greatly needed.  I did contact certainlywood and they were incredibly helpful.  This sounds like it might be a bit more than I can handle, and I may just sub it out.  Or just simplify the design (solid cherry top, or cherry ply top) and match the doors.  Or go with a completely different wood/design without veneers so this piece stands out a bit more instead of just blending.

Once again, thanks. 

Jon

 

[Wood_Junkie]

Just some thoughts from someone that doesn't know that much about veneering...

It seems very onerous, time consuming, and error prone to try to veneer each little piece onto a large panel.  One error and you're sunk.  And the paper thin veneer is hard to work with.
And it also doesn't seem like you'd get the structural strength needed for a table by just gluing together a bunch of full thickness pieces (creating a puzzle-assembly glue up as the body of the table).

What about veneering onto a thin substrate (like 1/8" thick), in order to build the working show-stock?  For example, create some 24"x24" veneered panels of each wood.
Cut these up into the strips and squares that you need, using conventional methods (e.g. tablesaw), and then using *those*, glue them onto a larger sheet of MDF core, to create your full tabletop with the veneered pattern.  So, you have two sets of "veneering" going on in this approach.

You'd get enough body with the 1/8" thick pieces to confidently put together the puzzle, but also have a solid, single-piece core to provide the structure of the table.
What it looks you have there, in terms of pattern, are a bunch of ~4" square, and a bunch of ~2" x 10" strips.  Crank out a bunch of those and assemble onto the full size MDF sheet in that basketweave.

 

[Jonhilgen]

Just some thoughts from someone that doesn't know that much about veneering...

It seems very onerous, time consuming, and error prone to try to veneer each little piece onto a large panel.  One error and you're sunk.  And the paper thin veneer is hard to work with.
And it also doesn't seem like you'd get the structural strength needed for a table by just gluing together a bunch of full thickness pieces (creating a puzzle-assembly glue up as the body of the table).

What about veneering onto a thin substrate (like 1/8" thick), in order to build the working show-stock?  For example, create some 24"x24" veneered panels of each wood.
Cut these up into the strips and squares that you need, using conventional methods (e.g. tablesaw), and then using *those*, glue them onto a larger sheet of MDF core, to create your full tabletop with the veneered pattern.  So, you have two sets of "veneering" going on in this approach.

You'd get enough body with the 1/8" thick pieces to confidently put together the puzzle, but also have a solid, single-piece core to provide the structure of the table.
What it looks you have there, in terms of pattern, are a bunch of ~4" square, and a bunch of ~2" x 10" strips.  Crank out a bunch of those and assemble onto the full size MDF sheet in that basketweave.

Was thinking along those lines, which sounds less complicated, and less expensive (i.e. no need to purchase a vacuum press), but a tad time consuming.  Thanks Robert.

Jon