Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.

[Cheese]

With each start of the motor, I found myself worrying if this would be the cut where it died.

I know it's irrational but the perception is there.

I certainly share your angst...everytime I pull the trigger it makes me think about these Kapex threads. Is today the day?

The only other piece of equipment I've owned that's caused me the same amount of trepidation when I used it was a 1958 Chevy Impala with a 348.  [big grin]  Fire it up...cross your fingers...and hope you make it home.  But that was 50 years ago and it was kind of accepted back then, this is now 2018, expectation levels have changed over the last 50 years.  [dead horse]

 

[ChuckM]

"Your usage puts you in an entirely different category than the ones experiencing failures... in other words your opinion isn't relevant what so ever."

My opinions are based on the experiences reported in this thread and on senior management behavior I witnessed working in two large companies. They are not based on my personal experience with the Kapex.

Useful and relevant opinions are not just limited to experience. People can offer helpful ideas or even advice based on observations and analysis, drawing on other experiences and assessments of theirs.

A case in point is Peter Drucker whom I admire for his insightful views and writings on organizations. He offered advice to governments, businesses, and non-profit entities. He had never been a CEO, a marketer, etc., but this Austrian thinker predicted, among other things, privatization and decentralization; the rise of Japan to economic world power; the decisive role of marketing (Facebook, Google. etc. were not even born!); and lifelong learning (the recent oil recession has caused many to take a new career path as their old jobs never came back).

I may never have used an XL (I have), but don't discount my opinion on it (if I have any), as I have had solid field experience with the DF500. Don't even discount the opinions of others who have only used a biscuit joiner but not a Domino joiner, because we shall look at the opinions themselves to decide what they are worth. Many tablesaw users, for example, are unsafe users, but I would not listen to them for their opinions on how to work safely in a shop, no matter how "heavily" their saws are used.

 

[MikeDVB]

So is it just the armature that needs replaced when they let out the magic smoke?  Is it an expensive replacement?  Can it be done by the end user?

 

[semenza]

So is it just the armature that needs replaced when they let out the magic smoke?  Is it an expensive replacement?  Can it be done by the end user?

Armature mainly but there could be other parts.

Yes.

That really depends on the end user.  But for three years it's on Festool.

Seth

 

[Cheese]

So is it just the armature that needs replaced when they let out the magic smoke?  Is it an expensive replacement?  Can it be done by the end user?

See reply 72 in this thread.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/another-dead-kapex-55656/

 

[demographic]

Is the Kapex 60 Brushless?
If it is I iimagine I'll wait till Festool make a cordless version of that and keep using my old but reliable Makita 110 volt chopsaw in the meantime. Thats been working fine since 2003 or so.
Can't see me buying the 120 anyway as its a big numb thing to move about on a daily basis and I don't need the extra capacity now that I have a HKC.
In the UK we have also kind of got out of the massive crown moulding fashion so its very rare indeed that I need the capacity in both directions the 120 has.
If I had a woodwork shop I might think otherwise but I'm out o  site every working day and for me the big ones size outweighs its usefullness. The 60 however is appealing, as long as its reliable and ideally cordless.
Possibly with a cord that plugs into the battery housing like the new DeWalt flexvolt tools.

 

[Cheese]

Is the Kapex 60 Brushless?

I don't believe it is.

 

[MikeDVB]

Kapex is not brushless.

 

[tiralie]

It's not the first brand miter saw I've had cook an armature, won't be the last.

Pretty well sums up my attitude. Use tools, break tools, fix tools finish project.
Tim

 

[Kodi Crescent]

This is the perfect opportunity to make a parody song to the tune of Cheech and Chong's "Up in Smoke".

"Up in smoke, that's where my Kapex goes..."

 

[john5mt]

Just to help with the documentation bought mine in 2013 died 12/19/2018

I used to believe it was a problem some people were having just because they were lemons.

Pretty sure now every kapex is a lemon.

I've been told the same BS
don't use them on the same circuit as a CT
They're not meant to be used in a production capacity.

BULL

every advertisement for the stupid thing shows it hooked up to a CT in a production environment.

between this and my carvex exploding my confidence in festool longevity is gone.

Gonna fix it because when it runs i really like it. But had to buy a big Yellow to get me through till the parts show up. Probably put an extra armature on the shelf so im not forced to wait for the repair next time.

 

[Coen]

I've been told the same BS
don't use them on the same circuit as a CT
They're not meant to be used in a production capacity.

BULL

every advertisement for the stupid thing shows it hooked up to a CT in a production environment.

Probably because the advertisements were shot in Germany, where they use the 230V version. Default circuit there being ~16A you can pick and match anything and get away with plugging it into the CT. It says "2400W" max here for what can be plugged into the CT.

 

[kevinculle]

Probably because the advertisements were shot in Germany, where they use the 230V version. Default circuit there being ~16A you can pick and match anything and get away with plugging it into the CT. It says "2400W" max here for what can be plugged into the CT.

There is an old engineering principle that a product needs to be engineered for the context you sell it into.  So if you are a car manufacturer whose home market is a temperate meticulously paved flatland and you decide to sell cars into the USA they'd better work in the very cold and the very hot on dirt and gravel roads and go up and down hills, etc.  If the Kapex depends on German electrical supplies to be reliable it should only be sold in Germany or the EU.  Don't get me wrong such mismatches can show up as a product is rolled out but there is no excuse for not fixing it 10 years later!

 

[Coen]

Probably because the advertisements were shot in Germany, where they use the 230V version. Default circuit there being ~16A you can pick and match anything and get away with plugging it into the CT. It says "2400W" max here for what can be plugged into the CT.

There is an old engineering principle that a product needs to be engineered for the context you sell it into.  So if you are a car manufacturer whose home market is a temperate meticulously paved flatland and you decide to sell cars into the USA they'd better work in the very cold and the very hot on dirt and gravel roads and go up and down hills, etc.  If the Kapex depends on German electrical supplies to be reliable it should only be sold in Germany or the EU.  Don't get me wrong such mismatches can show up as a product is rolled out but there is no excuse for not fixing it 10 years later!

With 110V you will always keep problems. I like to wonder why the US doesn't adopt 230 Vac and the metric system. After biting the bitter bullet once it's only savings. Or lead the way with 350 Vdc or something.

But are the Kapex saws sold today still the same internally? I hope they changed what was broken?

 

[southrider]

"I like to wonder why the US doesn't adopt 230 Vac and the metric system. After biting the bitter bullet once it's only savings. Or lead the way with 350 Vdc or something."

Because EVERY OTHER TOOL MADE BY EVERYBODY ELSE lasts for endless years on 110V in the US, and we don't need to retrofit the largest consumer market in the world over one bad product.

 

[Cheese]

Because EVERY OTHER TOOL MADE BY EVERYBODY ELSE lasts for endless years on 110V in the US, and we don't need to retrofit the largest consumer market in the world over one bad product.

Amen...and that was a great statement...certainly made my day.

As an aside, I own a Milwaukee Holeshooter drill purchased by my father in 1948. He used it every day on the job in the HVAC industry until he retired in 1985. It's had 4-5 sets of brushes installed but it still works to this very day. It's been dropped from scaffolding and been swung by its cord. It still survives...it still works like when it was new. There's a lesson to learn here.

 

[Coen]

"I like to wonder why the US doesn't adopt 230 Vac and the metric system. After biting the bitter bullet once it's only savings. Or lead the way with 350 Vdc or something."

Because EVERY OTHER TOOL MADE BY EVERYBODY ELSE lasts for endless years on 110V in the US, and we don't need to retrofit the largest consumer market in the world over one bad product.

Lol, we retrofitted our entire country decades ago. Now pure savings. Double the power over the same copper, half the copper for the same power or half the losses with the same copper.  [tongue]

 

[Job and Knock]

I've been told the same BS
don't use them on the same circuit as a CT
They're not meant to be used in a production capacity.

One of the reasons for buying Festool, for buying Kapex, is the superior dust extraction. And in the face of what we have in Europe, that is legislation mandating the use of class M dust extraction at all times on all tools which cut wood and wood-based products, it has become absolutely necessary to run a saw through a vacuum with automatic start. Secondly, if they aren't meant to be used in a production capacity why do Festool sell a 110 volt version of the Kapex in the UK? In this country we have two different voltages - 230 volts (nominal) @ 50Hz for general/domestic use and 110 volts (55+55 volts centre-tapped) @ 50Hz specifically for use on construction sites and in docks, harbours and on railways works. By selling any 110 volt tool here you are effectively stating that it is suitable for use in a production environment. This is why you rarely see low-cost Chinese power tools in 110 volt - they just aren't durable enough.

Does this mean Festool now saying that my £1500 saw/extension combination isn't suitable for the purpose I bought it for? Where did that comment originate?

 

[hemlock]

I have refrained from weighing in on this issue for quite some time. I re-tooled my shop over the past 7 years with mostly Festool. I started because of the need for dust collection and got hooked on that and their quality.  Overall, I am happy with them.  I appreciate their build quality, dust collection, and performance--especially those that are innovative (e.g., domino). I have 15 different Festool "tools" (including MFT and LR32).  I do not have a Kapex.  I have a Bosch Glide 12" CMS.  I just couldn't justify the additional cost of the Kapex years ago.  The Bosch has performed extremely well; however, recently I began reconsidering replacing the Bosch with a Kapex for better dust collection.  I will not until the Kapex issue is addressed by Festool.  I understand Festool reads these posts.  I hope they do.  Frankly, its insulting to their loyal customer base to, at best, "explain away" the problem or, at worse, seemingly ignore it.  As a constructive comment for the problem, I hope the US version of the REB includes some explanation of how the motor in it addresses previous problems (hopefully it does).  However, I suspect the liability of acknowledging there was a problem will prevent that from happening; in which case I will not upgrade my CMS, and my view of Festool will be diminished more than it already is. 

 

[ChuckM]

Like many of the current owners of a Kapex, I am concerned about the possibility of a motor failure in my saw. But since I have the saw and it is the only CMS I have, I just enjoy it to the fullest. For those of you who are waiting for the release of a new Kapex that is "motor-issue free," your waiting may never end. But that is ok as long as whatever CMS you have is all that you need.

Festool has not officially acknowledged the existence of any motor deficiency in its Kapex, and we as consumers or owners do not know either how bad the motor issue really is. Waiting won't solve anything.

I know I wouldn't have waited because by the time I had finished waiting (if there was such a thing), my woodworking life might have come to an end, given my age. In the meantime without waiting, I have used my Kapex on many of my builds, with excellent precision and dust control. The risk (of failure) is worth taking in my case.