Anyone experienced with Flashing?

[skids]

Skids & Tom, Thanks for the seminar.  Altho i am no longer involved in construction, i have had some experiences in moons gone by.  This project has been very interesting.  My experiences with flashing ended just about the time everybody started using vapor wraps of various kinds to completely cover their buildings.

I built a barn for my equipment storage and my back gave out for heavy climbing and lifting before i could completely finish.  I hat to build a little shed overhang at the over the garage door opening and traded a planting job for the framing of the overhang with a carpenter i had recently met.  He framed, but left no allowance for flashing.  I had never used any sort of wrapping other than black felt paper.  He had never seen flashing for the type of overhang I had wanted.  I had left a couple of rows of shingles out so he could work with the flashing.  He put in the shingles with no flashing of any kind saying he never saw anything flashed in that situation before.  Oh well, gradually, i have managed to get flashing up under there and counter flashed out over the roof. no shingles on the roof yet.  a future project someday when my back lets me climb and work from a ladder (three legged orchard ladder that is)

My cousins have all moved out of the old farmhouse we all grew up in.  Nobody was in the house all last winter for the very first time since over 100 years ago.  There are winds that can blow thru the old structure leaving snow against inside walls.  I have torn back the two chimneys and reflashed, not because they were leaking, but they had been flashed with lead.  the lead would probably have lasted forever, but i had no experience working with it.  i did know how to solder and work with copper.  As far as I know, there appears to have been no flashing around or over any of the old windows (i am going to make a thoro inspection tour with my cuz and others some time this summer) but no signs of water damage ever.  The widow panes are the problem.  We have recaulked several times over the years, but the putty eventually cracks and pulls away.  Hence, the wind blows thru.

as i said, this past winter, the house remained empty with the furnace (installed 40 years ago) held at 50ºF.  My cuz expected a lot of musty smell from mold due to the closure.  The house can breath.  Consequently, not one sign of mold anywhere in the house.  No musty smell.  They were very surprised, but I told them my theory of air circulation. The house can breath.

Oops! Gotta run.  My son & grandson have arrived. we are going out for brunch.  I've alraedy had beakfast hours ago, but what the h---, i have a bad habit of being able to eat any time.
Tinker

Glad it could help you out a bit Tinker..This was a crash course for me..I have been an laborer on my decks with my brother for extra money when I was younger, but never the lead. Couple that with the fact this wasn't your everyday remediation and was a learning experience.

Tom has been the guiding light on this.

 

[tjbnwi]

skids (Please tell me that nickname did not come from the person who does your laundry [eek]),  

You owe me nothing, I had the option to ignore this. The choice to respond was mine. At least you did something with the info. I hate when someone ask a question, gets the same answer from 5-10 people and do nothing with it or, ask the same questions a different way. They end up with information paralysis.

On my way home from my parents (Happy Fathers Day to all it applies to by the way) I stopped and took a few more pics of the counter flashing on the two tone deck. The other decks are in Pa. and Mi. so no additional photos of their flashing.

Tom

 

[skids]

skids (Please tell me that nickname did not come from the person who does your laundry [eek]), 

You owe me nothing, I had the option to ignore this. The choice to respond was mine. At least you did something with the info. I hate when someone ask a question, gets the same answer from 5-10 people and do nothing with it or, ask the same questions a different way. They end up with information paralysis.

On my way home from my parents (Happy Fathers Day to all it applies to by the way) I stopped and took a few more pics of the counter flashing on the two tone deck. The other decks are in Pa. and Mi. so no additional photos of their flashing.

Tom

Haha, no thats not the origin of that name, but I can see how one would think that!

BTW..I love that firepit deck and how you scribed the decking. Nice touch.

I am going to put the copper in tomorrow..Any reason I wouldn't put that over the Protecto? I could sneak it up under the door a small amount..THen the Protect/Vycor as a Counter flash? No questioning your logic, I get why you would do it that way, just overthinking it a little I suppose, and making sure I am doing it right. You want it under right? Also, I love the idea of the double flashing you show in the two tone deck above, but that flashing at the decking concerns me with little ones, and the fact it's such an active entry area. Maybe I am being paranoid.

Funny story...The builder who built my house is building a neighborhood right next to the one I am in..I went to his model home today to see how they framed up the deck, and to get any idea what my Town signing off on. Welp...it was flashed wrong!!! Copper behind the ledger! I literally laugh out loud. They haven't even moved to triple carrying beams with 6x6s in this town. Building inspector obviously doesn't care. Amazing such a critical area on a home can be wrong the house still given an occupancy permit.

 

[tjbnwi]

All seams need to be lapped top to bottom. The copper behind the the piece of Vycor sticking out at the door sill allows water to flow down without risk of entering the seam.

Think like a rain drop in normal wind.

Tom

 

[skids]

All seams need to be lapped top to bottom. The copper behind the the piece of Vycor sticking out at the door sill allows water to flow down without risk of entering the seam.

Think like a rain drop in normal wind.

Tom

Actually, your right..In looking at Mike Guertin's pic here thats the only way this is done. I am using the much thinner and cheaper roll copper..Custom pan would have been nice. Not for this house though.

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/tool-guide/departments/what-is-the-difference/ledger-flashing.aspx

 

[skids]

All seams need to be lapped top to bottom. The copper behind the the piece of Vycor sticking out at the door sill allows water to flow down without risk of entering the seam.

Think like a rain drop in normal wind.

Tom

[thumbs up]

 

[tjbnwi]

I'm going to have to stop responding to this thread. I just noticed you use a propane grill. Even though it is a Weber Genesis (my guess with the plastic side table 1996) it is still blasphemy. I had to cook on one of those things today for my parents (dad's has the teak side table 1995). Got home and hugged my 5 Weber Kettles & Weber Smokey Mountain Bullets , then made dinner on one of them.

I have to go to Kazoo to retrieve an original WSMB from my nephew. It belonged to my dad, it is #14 of the original 175 built. Broke my heart to see it gone.

The copper you are using will last 10 of our life times. Unless your a really good tin knocker stick with the tin stuff. If you need to form an inside corner you can solder it or fill a heavy garbage bag 1/2 way with sand, you can then hammer it into place. Heavier copper you have to warm it a special way to hammer form it.

Tom

 

[skids]

I'm going to have to stop responding to this thread. I just noticed you use a propane grill. Even though it is a Weber Genesis (my guess with the plastic side table 1996) it is still blasphemy. I had to cook on one of those things today for my parents (dad's has the teak side table 1995). Got home and hugged my 5 Weber Kettles & Weber Smokey Mountain Bullets , then made dinner on one of them.

I have to go to Kazoo to retrieve an original WSMB from my nephew. It belonged to my dad, it is #14 of the original 175 built. Broke my heart to see it gone.

The copper you are using will last 10 of our life times. Unless your a really good tin knocker stick with the tin stuff. If you need to form an inside corner you can solder it or fill a heavy garbage bag 1/2 way with sand, you can then hammer it into place. Heavier copper you have to warm it a special way to hammer form it.

Tom

Thanks..

I hate that grill, other than making my life easier with the kids it dries everything out. It was a wedding gift however so it's been reliable for the last 11 years. I want The Egg, but will settle for a weber kettle. The only reason I haven't sprung for it is because a 12x12 deck was too small for anything to fit on it!

Once done the gas will continue to be relegated to the grass. Only top draft picks will be allowed on the deck.

There is nothing like charcoal cooking. Gas is strictly for convenience not flavor.

 

[tjbnwi]

The BGE is nice, I've used my brothers. It is not as nice as using a Weber Kettle, I prefer the larger surface area and mine are equipped with cast iron grates and accessories.

I can have my Webers ready to go in less than 5 minutes. They can get a little warm also.

Pink foam follows me everywhere it appears.

Tom

 

[Tinker]

The copper you are using will last 10 of our life times. Unless your a really good tin knocker stick with the tin stuff. If you need to form an inside corner you can solder it or fill a heavy garbage bag 1/2 way with sand, you can then hammer it into place. Heavier copper you have to warm it a special way to hammer form it.

Tom

I did many copper flashings (chimney).  Most were very simple 3 or 4 stepups.  When it came to putting a hip from backside to roof, i had more precise cutting and soldering to do and hired a very skilled "tin knocker".  Almost all of my flashings I used crimp fold overs to join instead of soldering.  Very few of my flashings were aluminum, but those i had to crimp the joints.  (Sorry, i am not familiar with exact terms, but I am pretty sure at least Tom knows what I am talking about.) I have a breaking tool that i used at first.  Later on, i discovered Work-Mates.  From then on, it was my brake. I used it for all of my flashings with the only extra jig I needed was a dead blow rubber mallet or wooden mallet and sometimes extended the capacity by usng a couple of 2x's to extend length of fold or increase capacity for folding corners on the steps.

for Tom:  In looking at your most recent pics where you flashed steps under siding, I am wondering why you did not bring the flashing far enough to fold down over the nose of the step. I have flashed like situations where i brought the flashing out beyond the nose and folded down to about 1/4" below the edge of the step.  i even carried the counter flashing behind the clapboards down to same level.  Just off the top of my head, i am not sure i remember exactly how i made all of the folds, but I know i was very fussy about redirecting of water as well as allowing wood to breath. I'm not shotgunning, but want to know. 

I am going to be looking over the 100+ year old farmhouse mentioned earlier post.  Except for the two chimneys, there is almost zero metal flashings anywhere on that old house.  My cuz just had an insurance inspection from which he received several complaints.  almost all of the complaints were obvious that the "reporter" knew zilch about construction, and especially about very old houses.  I saw nothing mentioned about lack of flashings anywhere.  That old house has NO metal other than nails and water pipes any where.  The fire places don't even have dampers and the chimney flashings are very slopilly done.  One of them was my own very early work, done a couple of years before i started my own mason biz.  I am sure that somewhere along the line, before we can sell the house  :'( we will come across an inspector who will be telling us we need to flash windows, steps, porches, chimneys and doorways.  i will be taking my own measurements so Cuz will have an idea of what he will be in for.
Tinker

 

[skids]

More uses for the ts and rail. I wanted an additional connection point between old and new deck so using the band joist. Had to cut back old one to install one new piece across the seam of old and new deck. Saw and rail strike again.

Changes how you look at problems having this thing in my arsenal

 

[tjbnwi]

Tinker, that is not the ledger side of the porch. Look closely at the pictures, you will see the siding is still in place. The end joist was installed ledger to beam with no penetrations into the home.

I just looked, I don't have any ledger side shots. I'm sure I would have run it behind the skirting so it would not be visible anyways (maybe the hem edge would be).

They're called seams (go figure), they will be flat, rolled, standing depending on how you made them with the brake/bar folder/seamer. 

Tom

 

[Tinker]

Tinker, that is not the ledger side of the porch. Look closely at the pictures, you will see the siding is still in place. The end joist was installed ledger to beam with no penetrations into the home.

I just looked, I don't have any ledger side shots. I'm sure I would have run it behind the skirting so it would not be visible anyways (maybe the hem edge would be).

They're called seams (go figure), they will be flat, rolled, standing depending on how you made them with the brake/bar folder/seamer. 

Tom

Tom, i have forgotten all of the terms, but i still have other memories.
when i was in HS, we had a "Tin Knocker" putting in heating ducts in our house.  I managed to get involved.
when i graduated, he tried to get me to come to work for him in a large sheet metal shop.  By then I knew that was not the work i wanted to do.

A few years later, when i had my own masonry biz, i called on him to do most of my chimney flashings.  many of his jobs, he used Rutland Red Roof Cement (a mastic put on with putty knife).  He always charged the roof cement out as having used a full five # can.  Realizing he had to make his profit, i ever complained or even made comment.  It was all just part of his job.

One day, he called and asked me to do a small patch job on some stonework on his own house. I went over and did the work using no more than a trowel or two of mortar.  In my itemization for the job, i charged him for a full bag of cememt and sand was charged in proportion to the full bag of cement. 

He took one look at my bill and said, "Now, Tink, just how many times have you charged for that bag of cement you have on here?"

"Jim, i have charged for that bag of cement exactly the same number of timmes you have charged me for your can of roof cement."

End of conversation and i was paid on the spot and even got further work from him.  he continued charging me for that darned can of roof cement and i continued charging for full bags of cement.  ;D
Tinker

 

[skids]

Tom..Which end of the deck do you recommend starting with the install of the decking? House of end of deck?

I still have a few things to tie up before getting to that, like hauling 2 yards of stone to the backyard to put under the deck. I am just wondering if it matters. I was thinking of starting at the end of the deck so I could dictate my overhang. I am thinking of putting a PVC fascia around the deck when done, and I am told Kleer makes 1/4 inch sheetstock--so would need about 1/2 inch or so.

Just curious to how you handle this.

thx!

 

[skids]

Tom..Which end of the deck do you recommend starting with the install of the decking? House of end of deck?

I still have a few things to tie up before getting to that, like hauling 2 yards of stone to the backyard to put under the deck. I am just wondering if it matters. I was thinking of starting at the end of the deck so I could dictate my overhang. I am thinking of putting a PVC fascia around the deck when done, and I am told Kleer makes 1/4 inch sheetstock--so would need about 1/2 inch or so.

I may be answering my own question..Just curious to how you handle this.

thx!

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

More uses for the ts and rail. I wanted an additional connection point between old and new deck so using the band joist. Had to cut back old one to install one new piece across the seam of old and new deck. Saw and rail strike again.

Changes how you look at problems having this thing in my arsenal

A sawzall would have been 10x quicker and will be covered by a fascia board.

I have not left any PT framing exposed in the last 5 years of building decks.

They either get Miratec painted to suit, or if they want white (barf) it gets Ex-Cell.

 

[skids]

More uses for the ts and rail. I wanted an additional connection point between old and new deck so using the band joist. Had to cut back old one to install one new piece across the seam of old and new deck. Saw and rail strike again.

Changes how you look at problems having this thing in my arsenal

A sawzall would have been 10x quicker and will be covered by a fascia board.

I have not left any PT framing exposed in the last 5 years of building decks.

They either get Miratec painted to suit, or if they want white (barf) it gets Ex-Cell.

I suppose..The sawzall would have left me with a squirly cut, and then when I butted I would have had a gap there etc..I hear you, but it was pretty damn easy to set that rail against it and make the cut. And I just set the depth and didn't have to worry about hacking up anything behind it..Overkill yes, but what the heck is what I say..I agree, it's a little like taking a scapel to gut a deer.

I will look into the Miratec..Looks like a nice product. Who makes ex-cell?

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

It is sold under the Ex-cell name, made by Jain.  It is just pvc trim.  It just happens to be what my lumber yard carries.

They are also making it now in about 15 different factory applied pre-finished colors.  Just used some on my last exterior project.

 

[skids]

It is sold under the Ex-cell name, made by Jain.  It is just pvc trim.  It just happens to be what my lumber yard carries.

They are also making it now in about 15 different factory applied pre-finished colors.  Just used some on my last exterior project.

Out here it seems to be Azek and Versatex that are getting traction..Well Azek has traction, they're so well branded people just call everything Azek.

I just dont' want to see that ugly band joist when I am done after all this work. White is still better than PT thats in a full sun location, and seen a few New England Winters  I think you can paint that PVC too.. It all comes stark white, which doesn't look bad on my house, it's Colonial. Having the ability to paint it is nice though.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Yeah, you can paint Azek/PVC.  I use SW Duration.