Blum concealed hinge - problem with screws

[ReneS]

I recently got some Blum concealed hinges (73B3550). The slots of the adjuster screws are deforming easily, and the slot for the overlay adjuster screw is very shallow, which leads to even more deformation.

They look like phillips slots, although the slots for the overlay screws look kind of strange. I am using pozi drive screwdrivers and bits.

I don't believe the screws for the different adjusters should have different slots, but these seem to.

Has anyone run across this?

Thanks.

 

[tjbnwi]

They are Pozi Drive screws, you need a PZ 2 screwdriver to adjust them.

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

This is the screwdriver Blum markets for the hinges. (I have them because the Blum rep gave us a case of them)





Tom

 

[ReneS]

Thanks, Tom. I thought I was using a pozidrive, but it was JIS.

I just ordered some pozidrive bits and a screwdriver.

 

[Mini Me]

To avoid confusion between the different bit types I put some coloured heat shrink on each bit so selecting the correct one is easy and fast.

 

[morts10n]

To avoid confusion between the different bit types I put some coloured heat shrink on each bit so selecting the correct one is easy and fast.

Or just look at the tip and notice all the add'l grooves that are present on pozi, but not on phillips

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It is a little misleading. The screws in the mounting plate have proper Posi-Driv heads, with the tiny extra grooves, between the main cross. The adjusting screws are indeed made to use the same tool, but they don't have to. A properly sized slotted screwdriver will turn them too. This may be to simplify adjustment for the "average Joe homeowner", who probably does not own the correct tool (Posi-Driv) It doesn't require much force to turn them.
I certainly can't speak for Europeans, but in the US, it's almost guaranteed that they don't have a PZ-2. Most wouldn't even know what it is. JIS is even more rare here.

@ReneS It's a bit of an oversimplification, but the main difference between Phillips and Pozi-Driv is the shape of the blades/wings/lugs of the cross. Phillips is tapered in all directions. This does several things. It makes insertion of the driver tip into the screw easier, but the main point is "cam out". This occurs (intentionally) because the two tapers are fighting each other. After enough driving force is applied, the driver "climbs up" the tapered face. This is why drywall guys use them. It becomes a self-releasing situation. Once the screw is in deep enough, it will not go anymore, the drive just slips.
However, that is not the desired outcome in a whole lot of other uses.
Posi-Driv looks essentially the same, with 4 driving lugs, but they are not tapered. The driving faces of the driver tip are perpendicular to the rotation of the screw. They do not cam out and the fit is much closer. Thus, it takes a little more care to insert the driver into the screw.

A Posi-Driv tip probably won't even fit into a Phillips screw head, unless it is really worn, and Phillps drivers chew up Posi Driv screws.
JIS is quite a bit closer to the Phillips shape. They are sharper in the bottom of the flutes and slightly smaller overall. They would be loose in a similarly sized Phillips screw.

Nerdy over-explanation off...

I have several different brands of all of them, (in different form-factors) except JIS. I've only got a couple of them, since they are pretty rare around here. I only ever see them in Japanese-made equipment/tools.
The only hinge-manufacturer branded one I have though is Grass. We have a sales rep that carries a box of them in his car and gives them away. That Blum is a lot nicer, more modern looking.

 

[ReneS]

Thanks, CRG.

I like nerdy discussions about things I am interested in.

Funny thing for me is that the different tips look very similar. Kind of hard to believe the small differences make such a big difference, although I suppose if I stop to think about the size of the slots in the head of a screw, it makes sense.

In the picture here, from left to right, the tips are pozi, JIS, and phillips. Some of you guys will probably say the differences are obvious, but to me they are pretty subtle.

On a related topic (for me), I finally got a handle on how to use the LR 32, and I am really liking it. Without the posts here at FOG and some of the LR 32 youtube videos, I would have been lost forever. And Erock's video series really locked things in for me. I was glad to stumble across that.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

@ReneS They are obvious, if you look in the right places.
PZ, the sides of the blades are parallel to each other
PH, the gullet between the blades is rounded, and the blades taper to a point.
JIS, the total angle is more pointed, the gullets are more angular.

It does help to hold the Phillips and JIS together, for comparison. There are also manufacturing differences, just to confuse things. I have PH2 bits from a bunch of different companies and they are quite different. I'll put them together next week.

 

[ReneS]

@ReneS They are obvious, if you look in the right places.
PZ, the sides of the blades are parallel to each other
PH, the gullet between the blades is rounded, and the blades taper to a point.
JIS, the total angle is more pointed, the gullets are more angular.

It does help to hold the Phillips and JIS together, for comparison. There are also manufacturing differences, just to confuse things. I have PH2 bits from a bunch of different companies and they are quite different. I'll put them together next week.

Okay, now I see the straight sides of the pozi versus the tapered sides of the phillips. To be honest, I have held the JIS and PH next to each other multiple times. I usually focused on the angle of point and didn't see a lot of difference.

Some things are hard to see until I see them and understand what I am seeing.

 

[woodferret]

Ya, it's subtle enough that I just dab a bit of nail polish on all my PZ and JIS bits (different colors) so I don't have to look that closely.