Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop

[atogrf1]

I love the SawStop product itself.  If it wasn't for the way they went about things, I would have one personally and my company would have a few of them.

I just have a personal aversion to patronizing businesses that I can't respect ethically is all.

 

[Birdhunter]

Regarding the post about the Sawstop safety feature adding complacency, my reaction is exactly the opposite. I've had the Sawstop Industrial (largest) for a couple of years. Knowing the safety feature is there is both comforting and, at the same time, adds a sense of being extra careful so as to not set it off.

I really appreciate the saw's great design and build quality. I think the saw's almost total lack of vibration and dead nuts accuracy are big safety features.

 

[jeh]

I just don't ever understand the GREAT merits of the SS technology.  It only mitigates one scenario of bad TS usage and leaves you complacent if you rely on it for what are many other ones.  It's also a bad sense of security to get formed when you move around using different TS's on different occasions forgetting ultimately the fundamentals in doing so for the one that the the sawstop protects you from.

For anybody who uses TS's regularly and/or who know best practices in using, this technology is useless largely and can only add to other non sawstop type saw usages that can now more readily result in injury if a SS type saw user becomes accustomed to but forgets about when using non-sawstop styled equipment.

Good for newbies (somewhat with still some exception in general) or those who are generally derelict in TS usage probably or who don't have any guards and bring their fingers mm's from their blades for which I myself never do.  For everybody else....beware!

Nothing to say here other than you are severely out of touch with reality. We all now know that you are perfect and have never had an accident, so yes the SawStop is not for you, but why stop there? For starters take the airbags out of your car and remove the smoke alarms from your home. As you know airbags cause people to drive more recklessly and smoke alarms allow people to get a good nights sleep.

I am detail oriented and use sound safety practices with all of my tools. The fact that I have a SawStop and it has an extra safety feature does not change the way I go about using the saw. It's there to cover me the one day there is a mishap and no matter how safe you think you are they do happen and they might not be related to your use of the saw. I'll start with a simple one: a seizure, heart attack, pass out. You can't predict these no matter how safe you are.

Finally let's consider any company that uses table saws. One accident and OSHA is all over you, Workers Comp costs increase, an employee (or yourself) can't work, and you may get sued. All those are reasons to get a SawStop or the Bosch.

 

[jeh]

I love the SawStop product itself.  If it wasn't for the way they went about things, I would have one personally and my company would have a few of them.

I just have a personal aversion to patronizing businesses that I can't respect ethically is all.

If it is ethics you are concerned with then turn in any electronic item in your house. They are all build with what is tantamount to slave labor, which is much worse than trying to push your safety device on to other manufacturers.

 

[atogrf1]

That is why, other than Festool, I use as many Made in the USA hand tools as possible.
(I'm a liar, I use a lot of Made in Canada, too).

 

[Sean7a]

Some info presented today were sale price and a SOMETIME in 2015 release date.  We've got it up on the site with some comprehensive video, photos and details.

Bosch REAXX Table Saw

 

[Cheese]

That is why, other than Festool, I use as many Made in the USA hand tools as possible.
(I'm a liar, I use a lot of Made in Canada, too).

I agree, if it says made in China I put it back on the shelf and look for something else.

 

[Cheese]

Some info presented today were sale price and a SOMETIME in 2015 release date.  We've got it up on the site with some comprehensive video, photos and details.

Bosch REAXX Table Saw

Whoops...Bosch suggested retail price is $1499. I guess Saw Stop just got bailed out of their potential conundrum.

 

[elfick]

Wouldn't a 15 amp 4 HP saw require 220v?

 

[Paul G]

The irony of this thread is some folks get all bound up about sawstop trying to legislatively mandate their safety devices in table saws, and Bosch is now coming out with a new approach of doing the same thing based on their airbag technology which is legislatively mandated here in the US for about 20 years. Should I be angry at Bosch also? This can get confusing fast LOL. FTR I oppose legislating table saw blade brakes as well as airbags in vehicles, let the market decide these things, not bureaucrats.

 

[Cheese]

Some info presented today were sale price and a SOMETIME in 2015 release date.  We've got it up on the site with some comprehensive video, photos and details.

Bosch REAXX Table Saw

So let me try to understand this:
Bosch 4100 saw/stand = $600
Bosch 4100 saw/stand + REAXX option = $1500
Therefore REAXX option = $900
Hmmmmmm maybe there are some other options out there for me.

 

[elfick]

Some info presented today were sale price and a SOMETIME in 2015 release date.  We've got it up on the site with some comprehensive video, photos and details.

Bosch REAXX Table Saw

So let me try to understand this:
Bosch 4100 saw/stand = $600
Bosch 4100 saw/stand + REAXX option = $1500
Therefore REAXX option = $900
Hmmmmmm maybe there are some other options out there for me.

You're missing the part of the equation where list_price != street_price
The list price of the Bosch 4100-09 10-Inch Worksite Table Saw with Gravity-Rise Stand is $1170 according to Amazon.

 

[Cheese]

The irony of this thread is some folks get all bound up about sawstop trying to legislatively mandate their safety devices in table saws, and Bosch is now coming out with a new approach of doing the same thing based on their airbag technology which is legislatively mandated here in the US for about 20 years. Should I be angry at Bosch also? This can get confusing fast LOL. FTR I oppose legislating table saw blade brakes as well as airbags in vehicles, let the market decide these things, not bureaucrats.

Paul, you have a great point. This whole Saw Stop/Bosch thread has turned pretty bizarre. Especially with the Bosch pricing now emulating the pricing of Saw Stop's entry for a job-site saw.

 

[Cheese]

Some info presented today were sale price and a SOMETIME in 2015 release date.  We've got it up on the site with some comprehensive video, photos and details.

Bosch REAXX Table Saw

So let me try to understand this:
Bosch 4100 saw/stand = $600
Bosch 4100 saw/stand + REAXX option = $1500
Therefore REAXX option = $900
Hmmmmmm maybe there are some other options out there for me.

You're missing the part of the equation where list_price != street_price
The list price of the Bosch 4100-09 10-Inch Worksite Table Saw with Gravity-Rise Stand is $1170 according to Amazon.

If you go to the Tool Nut website, they have priced the saw at $1499 retail. Unless Bosch reconsiders their pricing schedule, Tool Nut will be asking $1499 foa a REAXX saw.

 

[elfick]

Some info presented today were sale price and a SOMETIME in 2015 release date.  We've got it up on the site with some comprehensive video, photos and details.

Bosch REAXX Table Saw

So let me try to understand this:
Bosch 4100 saw/stand = $600
Bosch 4100 saw/stand + REAXX option = $1500
Therefore REAXX option = $900
Hmmmmmm maybe there are some other options out there for me.

You're missing the part of the equation where list_price != street_price
The list price of the Bosch 4100-09 10-Inch Worksite Table Saw with Gravity-Rise Stand is $1170 according to Amazon.

If you go to the Tool Nut website, they have priced the saw at $1499 retail. Unless Bosch reconsiders their pricing schedule, Tool Nut will be asking $1499 foa a REAXX saw.

That's absolutely correct. My point was your math should thusly:

Bosch 4100 saw/stand = $1170
Bosch 4100 saw/stand + REAXX option = $1500
Therefore REAXX option = $330

Comparing list prices for both.  [smile]

edit to note that I see your point that the 4100 is available right now for $600, but if you wanted to stick to that, the cost of the reaxx is actually infinite since it isn't available right now... since we won't know the street price until it's released, your only other option is to compare the price we do know, the list price.

 

[Cheese]

Some info presented today were sale price and a SOMETIME in 2015 release date.  We've got it up on the site with some comprehensive video, photos and details.

Bosch REAXX Table Saw

So let me try to understand this:
Bosch 4100 saw/stand = $600
Bosch 4100 saw/stand + REAXX option = $1500
Therefore REAXX option = $900
Hmmmmmm maybe there are some other options out there for me.

You're missing the part of the equation where list_price != street_price
The list price of the Bosch 4100-09 10-Inch Worksite Table Saw with Gravity-Rise Stand is $1170 according to Amazon.

If you go to the Tool Nut website, they have priced the saw at $1499 retail. Unless Bosch reconsiders their pricing schedule, Tool Nut will be asking $1499 foa a REAXX saw.

That's absolutely correct. My point was your math should thusly:

Bosch 4100 saw/stand = $1170
Bosch 4100 saw/stand + REAXX option = $1500
Therefore REAXX option = $330

Comparing list prices for both.  [smile]

If you're comparing list prices of each you are absolutely correct. And the $330 option isn't that hard to swallow.
What I'm saying is that if I want to purchase a 4100 right now, I'll pay $600. If I want to purchase a REAXX right now, I'll pay $1500.

 

[elfick]

heh heh, I snuck my edit in before your reply  [big grin]

edit to note that I see your point that the 4100 is available right now for $600, but if you wanted to stick to that, the cost of the reaxx is actually infinite since it isn't available right now... since we won't know the street price until it's released, your only other option is to compare the price we do know, the list price.

 

[Cheese]

heh heh, I snuck my edit in before your reply  [big grin]

Good job...I owe you one for that. [smile]

 

[GregBradley]

Wouldn't a 15 amp 4 HP saw require 220v?

15a at 220v would only get you closer to 4hp.

120v 15a only gets you 4 nonsense HP. Some high RPM vacuums are claiming 6.5hp out of a 120v circuit.

To put it a bit more clearly, that motor will do 4hp worth of work for a part of one second with the overload circuit disabled just before it turns itself into useless junk.

Universal Motors are rated differently than Induction Motors.

That 4hp Universal Motor Saw will do about the same work as a 1.75hp Induction Motor saw for a VERY short time. It will do about the same amount of work as a 1.25hp Induction Motor saw for the typical use of a jobsite saw

 

[wow]

The rule of thumb I was taught back when I was a pup was that you could run a REAL 1.5HP motor on a typical 120 Volt circuit, but that was it. You couldn't run a 2HP one - period.

In addition to the 'downhill, with the wind, and once' nonsense ratings that are batted about these days, there have been some companies that have come out with REAL 1.75 HP motors to eek the last little bit of power out of a typical !20 Volt circuit. I think I *might* even remember a 1-7/8 HP rating one for the same reason.