C12 vs. TDK

[mlawrenc]

I am interested in potentially getting one of these guns, but I am not sure which one is the best to choose.  For those of you who have either, what would make you choose one over the other..?  Also, with the price increases coming, does anyone know how much the kits will go up in price..?

Thanks

Marcus

 

[Ted Miller]

Marcus, Here is the $ increases:
http://www.mcfeelys.com/festool/bti.asp

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Here is the pricing part of your question.  The C12 will remain unchanged.

564136 Festool 12v TDK-CE "T" Handle Cordless Drill      Current: $345.00    New: $350.00
564163 Festool TDK 12 CE Cordless Drill Set                  Current: $460.00    New: $470.00
564139 Festool 15.6v TDK-CE "T" Handle Cordless Drill    Current: $408.00    New: $415.00

564178 Festool C12 12v, 1.3Ah Cordless Drill    Current: $345.00    New: $345.00
564179 Festool C12 12v, 2.4Ah Cordless Drill    Current: $365.00    New: $365.00
564180 Festool C12 12v, 3.0Ah Cordless Drill    Current: $395.00    New: $395.00

564178S Festool C12 12v, 1.3Ah Cordless Drill w/FastFix Chuck Kit    Current: $460.00    New: $460.00
564179S C12, 12v w/2 - 2.4 Ah NiCad Batteries & FastFix Chuck Kit    Current: $480.00    New: $480.00
564180S Festool C12 12v, 3.0Ah Cordless Drill w/FastFix Chuck Kit    Current: $510.00    New: $510.00

 

[mlawrenc]

Thanks for the info - looks like not much of an increase in $.  Anyone have opinions one way or the other on why to choose one of them over the other..?

Thanks

Marcus

 

[Dan Uhlir]

I've had the tdk 12 for two years now and it's works as good today as when I purcased it, in the winter I use it all day everyday, so I'm quite pleased, hopefully it will last for years to come, and for myself time is an important consideration when purcahsing festools.i.e. the drill cost me fifty cents a day and getting cheaper everyday. As to why the tdk in lieu of the c12 well for me me it was the pistol grip and I liked the balance I was used to that type and I wasn't going to need it in tight corners which is the one of the benefits of the c12 extremely compact but again for myself not an issue, and the other benefit with the c12 is the brushless motor, which is again beyond my comprehension or needs. I just can't type anymore. Geez Dan

 

[Dan Clark]

I can't comment on the TDK because I've never had one.  I do have the C12 and love it.  The original reason that I bought it was to drive 5/16 X 3" lag screws into 3" of joist + joist sister while sistering the joists under my master bathroom.  AFAIK, it's got the shortest head of any drill except for the special purpose angle drills.

When I got it, it felt strange at first, partially because I have fairly short fingers.  My old Dewalt 18V drill felt much better.  That is, until I started drilling with it.  With traditional drills like the Dewalt and Festool TDK, you hand position is under the drill head and farther forward.  With the C12, you hand and arm are much closer to the torque line of the drill.  So, there's less twisting of the drill and it's easier to keep the drill in a stright line with a screw or drill bit.

Now, my old Dewalt sits on a shelf.  I use the C12 pretty much constantly.  I've probably drilled about 1000 holes in the last year and screwed in at least 4,000 screws (most of them large). 

Regardless of which one you buy, make sure you get the chuck kit!  Also check out the Depth Stop Chuck.  Here's my Depth Stop Chuck review:http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=331.0.  If you will be using the drill to install drywall, sub-floor, fencing, etc...  The Depth Stop Chuck is worth every penny.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[mxlars]

Have had my C12 for less than a week, but are really impressed of what this puppy can do!

Still getting use to the 'feel' of it's special ergonomics but it's really not awkward.
In a way it feels heavier than it is, but it's an illusion and a quality feel on it's balance.
Love the electronic clutch (

 

[Mirko]

I have the C12 and The TDK, and always reach for the C12, its a perfect drill!

Mirko

 

[mlawrenc]

Thanks for the feedback, that is what I was looking for.  I am leaning toward giving the C12 a try - but I have one more question.  I have a small amount of electrical work to do still on a remodel I am working on and I need to bore some 3/4 to 1 inch holes through some floor joists and some wall studs, would you use the C12 for that type of work..?

Thanks

Marcus

 

[pteubel]

Marcus,

Last year, I rewired/replumbed my shop for electricity and compressed air lines, respectivily. I needed to drill lots of 1" holes in the joists. My 3/8" Dwealt corded drill wasn't up for the task and my 1/2" drills were too large to get in between the joists (with the 1" self feeding auger bit). Ended up using the C12 and it really worked great. Drilled ALOT of conduit holes with that drill and it still amazes me what it can do.

The best part is the fact you can't damage it by overloading it. If you do overload it, it'll just beep and stop.

 

[Mirko]

Marcus,

There seems to be nothing my C12 drills can't handle, and thats comparing them to my TdK 15.6 volt, I think its the brushless motor in the C12's that makes them so powerfull.

Mirko

 

[Dan Clark]

Marcus,

IMO, the C12 with chuck kit is the exactly right drill for that.    I bought mine specifically for working on my joists.  The short head fits between the joists and studs.    Many times you can drill holes using the C12 alone with no chuck.    1/4" bits fit (loosely) directly in the head with no chuck.  Sometimes you will need to use the Festool right-angle chuck for the really tight spots.  With the C12, you have multiple options and can use one hand in many cases.

If you look at other drills, the head is WAY longer than the C12's head and that includes the TDK.  The Festool right-angle chuck fits both tools so you could use the TDK too.  However, the downside of the right-angle chuck is that you need two hands to use it. 

Take a look at the pics at the bottom of my Depth Stop Chuck review thread:http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=331.0.  One pic shows my joists with lag screws pre drilled.  The fuzzy brown thing running between the joists is a 1/2" copper water pipe.  In the background, you'll see a white power wire hanging down.  That was then.

Now, months later, the piple turns right and goes through three sistered joists between 3" and 4.5" thick (double sistered).  The white wire goes to the left through two sistered joists.  I used the C12 with 3/4", 1" and 1-1/4" spade bits to drill the holes through the fir and Microllam joists.  FYI, Microllam is MUCH tougher to drill than standard wood joists.  Drilling a 1" hold through a single joist is nothing. 

One strong recommendation...  Use the Lee Valley Speed Bore spade bits:http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32238&cat=1,180,42240,53317 for this kind of workl.    They are relatively inexpensive and work very well.  Their only downside is that they only go up to 1".  They come in a standard length shaft.  Other companies offer extension shafts that work fairly well and you can get some short shaft spade bits for the really tight spots.

Also, if you're doing a lot of holes, get at least two 3/4" and 1" bits in each size.  The probability of hitting a hidden nail head is pretty high and then the bit is toast.

Good luck with your decision.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[mlawrenc]

Thanks a ton guys - that was my only fear about the C12 was that it might not be up to some of the tougher jobs.  I think I am gonna give that one a shot.

Thanks

Marcus

 

[Dan Clark]

Marcus,

Last year, I rewired/replumbed my shop for electricity and compressed air lines, respectivily. I needed to drill lots of 1" holes in the joists. My 3/8" Dwealt corded drill wasn't up for the task and my 1/2" drills were too large to get in between the joists (with the 1" self feeding auger bit). Ended up using the C12 and it really worked great. Drilled ALOT of conduit holes with that drill and it still amazes me what it can do.

The best part is the fact you can't damage it by overloading it. If you do overload it, it'll just beep and stop.

Peter,

I agree completely on all points.   I caused mine to heat up when screwing in lots of BIG lag screws one after another.  When that happened, it just beeped and stopped.  When I took off the hot battery and loaded it to the charger, the charger just flashed red and would NOT charge it until it cooled down.   The drill electronics protected the drill and the charger electronics protected the charger and battery.   

One subtle point about all of this - Some people would argue that we don't need this.  That we should be smart enough to make those decisions.   That's a nice thought when you're sitting in a comfy chair writing a post (like this one).  However...

When you are standing on a work platform 4 feet off the ground, with your head stuck with between sistered joists, and you've just screwed in 70-80 5/16" X 3" lag screws into 3 inches of fir and Microllam in 10 minutes, and your hand is knotting up, your shoulder is cramping, and you are dripping with sweat from the effort, you will NOT be thinking about the drill overheating!  The only thing on your mind is getting the damn screws in the wood before the glue sets up.  When you are in those real world conditions and the drill saves itself from destruction, that's when you REALLY appreciate the C12.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[mlawrenc]

One more question - which batter pack (1.3, 2.4, 3.0) do you guys have and are you happy with the choice.  Not a lot of price difference between the higher ah and lower ah, just curious.

Thanks

Marcus

 

[VictorL]

Hello,

There is no single answer, it depends. Festool USA has a file with batteries description.http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=2&prodid=564178&tab=access# then go to “Downloads..” and select “Which C12 battery version to get.”  The difference in price is very modest and you have to consider other parameters.

Regards,
Victor

 

[mlawrenc]

Thanks for the link - that clarifies the differences, however it brings up one more question.  The 3.0 is NiHM and the 1.3 and 2.4 are NiCD.  From doing a little reading on the difference the NiCD is generally preferred over NiHM for power tool use, now I am assuming that other than time before charge I will not notice a difference between the 2 (at least I would hope).  I am a little fuzzy on this, and I dont want to buy the 3.0 for more money and then wish I had the 2.4, so does anyone have an opinion on this..?

Thanks

Marcus

 

[VictorL]

NiMH has a bigger capacity that’s important when you work away from the power source. And it is less toxic for produce/recycle.
Regards,
Victor

 

[Dan Clark]

I got the 2.4 NiCD.  My decision was partly because I perceived that the NiCD was a bit better for my needs than the 3.0 NiMH.  Most of my decision was based on availability.  The 2.4 was in stock and the 3.0 was was not. 

I'm hoping that Festool will come out with a Lithium Ion battery version and offer an upgrade kit for current TDKs and C12s.  If the upgrade price was reasonable, I'd upgrade in a flash.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[mxlars]

Got the 2.4Ah, but actually wanted the 1.3..  Lower weight, 25min recharge, and wanted to test the stated 240-250 5x40mm screws on one charge 
Have given the batteries a initial charge (+1hour for good measure), ran one down to test the low-warning beep feature. Have only used it moderately since I got it (still less than a week ago) and the first recharged battery show no sign of discharge.
*Noticed the top rpm of the C12 dropped when I ran one down after delivery, another warning that cell voltage is dropping - and then after 10-12 minutes of screwdriving the battery beep came. Was still able to finish what I started (reactivated trigger) and drive 5-6 more screws before the final beep came and power was drained.

In my opinion the C12 vs. TDK12 is a no brainer, just for heavier use the TDK15.6 may have a small nose ahead.