Cedar Decking by ME and Mate

[AlexThePalex]

I'm equally awed as the rest, this is a very fine job you and your mate are doing here jmb. I already knew from other projects you posted that you really know what you're doing, but this one proves it once more and then adds some. [not worthy]

 

[jmbfestool]

I'm equally awed as the rest, this is a very fine job you and your mate are doing here jmb. I already knew from other projects you posted that you really know what you're doing, but this one proves it once more and then adds some. [not worthy]

thank you much appreciated.   Im hoping to do more off these.  

JMB

 

[mattfc]

I'm equally awed as the rest, this is a very fine job you and your mate are doing here jmb. I already knew from other projects you posted that you really know what you're doing, but this one proves it once more and then adds some. [not worthy]

thank you much appreciated.   Im hoping to do more off these.   We already have two lined up after this one!   

Not far from this job a large plastic conservatory wants replacing with a cedar  AND I have showed my parents these pictures and they want one also.   They want it a little bigger than this one though.   This one is 4.3 meters by  7.3 meters   and my parents want one at 8.5 by 5.5 but a green house and are debating if it to be rectangle with hips or round like this one.

JMB

If you do go done the route of a few more curved ones I would look into laminate bending.. I recon you could save quite a lot of time on the roof plinth (not sure what you call it) but the big bit you have made out of curved sections. If planned right, the jig for making it could be used at the end for the floor panel (e.g. like the ply thing you made and painted black) also.. am sure after having done this one you have also plenty of idea for short cuts!

 

[jmbfestool]

I'm equally awed as the rest, this is a very fine job you and your mate are doing here jmb. I already knew from other projects you posted that you really know what you're doing, but this one proves it once more and then adds some. [not worthy]

thank you much appreciated.   Im hoping to do more off these.   We already have two lined up after this one!  

Not far from this job a large plastic conservatory wants replacing with a cedar  AND I have showed my parents these pictures and they want one also.   They want it a little bigger than this one though.   This one is 4.3 meters by  7.3 meters   and my parents want one at 8.5 by 5.5 but a green house and are debating if it to be rectangle with hips or round like this one.

JMB

If you do go done the route of a few more curved ones I would look into laminate bending.. I recon you could save quite a lot of time on the roof plinth (not sure what you call it) but the big bit you have made out of curved sections. If planned right, the jig for making it could be used at the end for the floor panel (e.g. like the ply thing you made and painted black) also.. am sure after having done this one you have also plenty of idea for short cuts!

Oh yes!  Der is ALOT of things we would do differently.  Still happy with what we have achieved so far just like you said the methods on how to achieve the same result will be very different next time but thats the beauty with joinery der is many ways to do things just gotta find the best way for you.     We avoided laminating mainly because lack of clamps!  We properly only have about 8-10 clamps between us so we would have to make something to some how clamp stuff together unless one of use is willing to spend some money and buy alot of clamps.  

We managed with the wall plate (roof plinth?) buy using the clamps we had to apply pressure and then screwing from above and work our way round.

JMB

 

[Deansocial]

JMB,

Looks awesome!

As for the steam bending, I've never personally done any, but I've seen it done up-close and assisted with clamping the pieces. I can see a few issues straight off:

1. The profile you're trying to bend is wedge-shaped, so it will have a natural tendency to bend in a different plane to what you want;

2. Your steam box isn't insulated. With a long box like that, by the time the steam gets from one end to the other, it won't be steam anymore, just hot water;

3. No timber should need to be steamed for 9 hours! The main idea of the steam is to get the timber hot, not wet;

4. As Matt mentioned, you need firm support for the timber. Ideally a male former, and a flexible steel strap with end stops.

For something like this application, laminating would have been a better idea, and wouldn't have been quite as big a headache as steam bending.

When I was at college, I remember seeing a video on steam-bending, and there was an old B&W clip from the thirties, in a factory where there were 3-4 guys in shirts & waistcoats with a massive press, and they were steam-bending 90 degree bends in massive (I'd guess 12"x8") oak beams! [eek]

I've looked for that clip online, but never found it...

you missed out that he is using kiln dried timber that can not be steam bent

 

[Ken Nagrod]

If you inject moisture back into the KD timber, the MC goes back up and there should be no difference bending it compared to non KD timber.  Right?  Just verify this with a moisture meter prior to bending.

Anyway, I think JMB would have an easier time just bringing the timber into his parents sauna and bending it in there.  [tongue]

 

[woodguy7]

I'm no expert but i thought once timber was kiln dried it became more brittle & would stay brittle even if moisture was re introduced to it ?

I could be totally wrong on this of course !

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I'm not totally sure, but from my experience, because wood is cellular, a living thing, the cells can reabsorb moisture bringing the wood back to its pre-kiln dried state.

 

[jmbfestool]

I'm no expert but i thought once timber was kiln dried it became more brittle & would stay brittle even if moisture was re introduced to it ?

I could be totally wrong on this of course !

You are correct WoodGuy!  Once wood has been kiln dried  it can not be brought back no mater how much moisture your introduce.  You can leave it underwater for weeks and it would not make any difference.  Kiln dried wood can not be steamed bent.

BUT Dean saying my Cedar was Kiln dried im not to sure about now I did say to Dean it was but ALL of the cedar we have used has been absolutely saturated  when cutting you can see the water coming out  and some of it was really light weight and some of it weighed twice as heavy.

I dont know if it had been kiln dried and the timber place just stored it out side and it got wet.

JMB

 

[jmbfestool]

I'm not totally sure, but from my experience, because wood is cellular, a living thing, the cells can reabsorb moisture bringing the wood back to its pre-kiln dried state.

Its not the wood fibres kiln drying affects.  As you say wood will absorb water again BUT it will not bring it back to its pre-kiln sate because kiln drying affects  the (''GLUE'') which is called  lignin in the wood which holds the fibres together thats what stops you bending the wood so to soften this ''GLUE'' you can use chemicals or STEAM and it allow the fibres to move from each other but once kiln dried the glue will never soften up.

JMB

 

[Deansocial]

I'm no expert but i thought once timber was kiln dried it became more brittle & would stay brittle even if moisture was re introduced to it ?

I could be totally wrong on this of course !

You are correct WoodGuy!   Once wood has been kiln dried  it can not be brought back no mater how much moisture your introduce.   You can leave it underwater for weeks and it would not make any difference.  Kiln dried wood can not be steamed bent.

BUT Dean saying my Cedar was Kiln dried im not to sure about now I did say to Dean it was but ALL of the cedar we have used has been absolutely saturated  when cutting you can see the water coming out  and some of it was really light weight and some of it weighed twice as heavy.

I dont know if it had been kiln dried and the timber place just stored it out side and it got wet.

JMB

you got it from silva timber didnt you? if so it is kiln dried, they go on about it on there site why it is better

 

[jmbfestool]

I'm no expert but i thought once timber was kiln dried it became more brittle & would stay brittle even if moisture was re introduced to it ?

I could be totally wrong on this of course !

You are correct WoodGuy!   Once wood has been kiln dried  it can not be brought back no mater how much moisture your introduce.   You can leave it underwater for weeks and it would not make any difference.  Kiln dried wood can not be steamed bent.

BUT Dean saying my Cedar was Kiln dried im not to sure about now I did say to Dean it was but ALL of the cedar we have used has been absolutely saturated  when cutting you can see the water coming out  and some of it was really light weight and some of it weighed twice as heavy.

I dont know if it had been kiln dried and the timber place just stored it out side and it got wet.

JMB

you got it from silva timber didnt you? if so it is kiln dried, they go on about it on there site why it is better

Nope the client got it from some where else almost half the price than silvatimber

 

[Ken Nagrod]

JMB,

I'm not so sure, even though I understand what you're getting at, I still have some doubts.  I'll do a little research on my own and see what I come up with.  Maybe the U.S. Forestry Department has the info I'm looking for.  In the meantime, how 'bout a video for us?  [poke]

 

[jmbfestool]

JMB,

I'm not so sure, even though I understand what you're getting at, I still have some doubts.  I'll do a little research on my own and see what I come up with.  Maybe the U.S. Forestry Department has the info I'm looking for.  In the meantime, how 'bout a video for us?  [poke]

Only air-dried wood of an appropriate species should be used.
Kiln-dried wood must not be used; the lignin in the wood has been permanently set during the hot, dry kilning process. No amount of steaming or soaking will weaken the lignin bond sufficiently for successful bending. The same applies to air-dried wood that has been allowed to dry and stabilize below 10% moisture content; the lignin will only partially plasticize with steam, not enough for successful bending of anything beyond a shallow curve.

Source: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?c=&cat=1,45866,45867&p=45869

 

[Deansocial]

oh right, you will have to phone them and find out then.

 

[Alan m]

when you dry timber there is water in between the fibers that is easily removed. once that is gone there is water in the fibers , this comes out slower and cant go back in

 

[jmbfestool]

Oops forgot to upload more recent pictures! 

Well we did worked couple days last week and finished of the roof with cladding AND plywood! 

I had second thoughts on using 12mm plywood as I thought we would not of been able to bend it and my mate was having second thoughts also BUT  as you can see the ply bend round very easily!  The only place we struggled was right at the top and so we did a few cuts to help bend it round!

A painter started staining the some of it so on the pictures where the curve is the rafters look lighter thats because they have not been treated yet

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[Deansocial]

the cladding looks to fllow around quite nice.

 

[jmbfestool]

This I started on the job but ran out of time and decided to make and finish it off at home not quite finished yet but it need to be finished for 2 moro ready for putting the decking boards down as this is the centre piece to go in the middle!   The client wanted a centre piece in the middle of the decking sooooo I made this I hope he likes it [unsure] [unsure]

Using Kapex TS55 Domino made it alot easier!

I used the TS55 to cut them all tapered and once the middle section was glued up I used the TS55 to put the grooves/rebates and the same with the mitre joints.

Alot of Dominos where used to fix this all together! 
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[jmbfestool]

the cladding looks to fllow around quite nice.

Yes we where selective with the cladding trying to make it flow as best as we could BUT der are one or two but the problem was that  we where running out of colours which matched BUT also  some of the boards where dark on one end but then would go very light on the other end making it difficult to get a good flow but we still tried to keep it flowing around  nicely as best as we could with out waisting to much time.

I hate it when its all over the place

JMB