Considering Buying a Shaper Origin

[crazyschultzie]

I am seriously considering purchasing the Shaper Origin, but am concerned about my relative lack of other tools. I have done a moderate amount of woodworking in the past, when my dad had a full setup in his barn.  I have no access to that at this point and have most of the smaller tools, but no table saw, no planer, only having a mounted miter saw and drill press. Is it reasonable to expect that I could make use of the shaper without these tools or would the lack thereof significantly negatively impact the use of the
Shaper Origin.  Not sure how this forum works or if I am in the right place, so thanks for putting up with this! Hope this finds you all excellent! 

 

[simonh]

I'd seriously consider what it is you want to make before buying one. An awful lot seem to be for sale constantly on the Shaper Facebook groups because people didn't use them anywhere near as much as they thought. I'd take a look at the Shaper Hub and ask yourself if the type of projects you see are what interests you. Invaluable when you need it, but very expensive to have sitting around gathering dust, especially if there are other tools you could spend the money on.

I use mine as a small router, so cutting small recesses, hinges and hardware, or if I have something where I want a specific layout pattern of holes for mounting something. It's great for the accuracy in these situations rather than free-handing with a standard router. I've also used it to make MDF templates for creating parts out of solid wood using other tools such as the bandsaw and router table. I also have the workstation but haven't used it for mortise and tenon or dovetail joinery.

It's also been used for my daughters DT project which required 43 pieces of plywood to be cut to form the shape of a hedgehog. An ideal tool as after a little tuition I was confident she was safe using it. It did however take 8 hours to cut all the parts! Pretty impressive to see how well it manages in a total novice situation and gets some level of hands on work compared to school DT class that is literally press send to issue the G-code to the CNC.

If you want to cut sheet wood to make cabinets or bigger projects or general around the house DIY etc. Then some of the other tools you mentioned are probably going to be more useful.

 

[woodwise]

In my view, the Shaper Origin is a bit like a Leatherman Multi tool. It is incredibly useful, but at least for me, it is typically not the perfect tool for most work. It is essentially a CNC router with the ability to be used on both large and small work (not specifically limited by table size etc).
If you can give more details about your projects, or the types of applications you intend to use it for, I am happy to share more thoughts. 

 

[rmhinden]

As [member=66875]simonh[/member] said it depends a lot on what you plan to make.

I have used mine for a variety of things.  This ranges from complete projects like found on ShaperHub, making templates, and many things that have curves.  Some of these need the ability to mill the wood before bringing it to the Origin, it depends on the specifics of project.

It is expensive, but I am happy with the purchase (maybe acquisition is a better word given the price...)

Bob

p.s. If you get one, I also recommend the Workstation.  I use mine a lot.

 

[cider]

I agree with the advice above: it depends on what you want to do.  It took me a little while to appreciate mine.  Now I use it all the time, but in a supporting role mostly: making templates, fixtures, & jigs, mortising for hardware, etc.  It's a brilliant tool, but it's a little slow.  Making a non-trivial project from start to finish with just SO would be excruciating for me.  Things like auto-pass, workstation, and plate improve productivity, but they also increase the price significantly.

 

[rmwarren]

I've had mine since the first release ~2019-ish and can't image not having it in the shop. That said, it's not the best tool to start your WW career with.

Wonderful toy that can seriously expand your game, but there are so many other foundational tools that can get you further.

RMW

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have had mine for several years, at this point, and it has been a great addition. The newest updates and accessories have really streamlined the process. I use it for all kinds of things, from templates, hardware installation, engraving and joinery.
Like Richard said, it's an "add-on" type tool, to be used with other tools. It's not really much of a stand-alone tool.
It's not a "production" tool. A normal flat-bed CNC is much more capable there.

 

[woodferret]

I have done a moderate amount of woodworking in the past, when my dad had a full setup in his barn.  I have no access to that at this point and have most of the smaller tools, but no table saw, no planer, only having a mounted miter saw and drill press. Is it reasonable to expect that I could make use of the shaper without these tools or would the lack thereof significantly negatively impact the use of the
Shaper Origin....

I don't have a table saw either, but I do have a way to break down sheet goods.  If you're looking to cut cabinetry for instance out of a sheet, note that at $26/roll of tape, you'd get one 8'x4' covered.  That's a lot of overhead to eat up.  For small nicknacks, the Origin with Workstation could work well enough coupled with a jig saw.

But without a planer, you're relegated to sheet goods only.  The surface you're riding on needs to be flat.  If there's a cup, it'll throw an error that the 'tape has moved'.  I don't think any solid wood you get S4S from a box store is going to work outside of the Workstation.

At the very least, I'd get a Bosch 1617 or a comparable router and make yourself a small rudimentary router flattening sled.

Things are going to be slow, (and painful when you make mistakes), but it's doable for the hobby woodworker.  More so if you're interested in doing inlays and fancier stuff.

 

[crazyschultzie]

Thanks for all of the replies!  Your insight is willingness to share it is much appreciated!

 

[LazyGretlWoodWorks]

I am seriously considering purchasing the Shaper Origin, but am concerned about my relative lack of other tools. I have done a moderate amount of woodworking in the past, when my dad had a full setup in his barn. I have no access to that at this point and have most of the smaller tools, but no table saw, no planer, only having a mounted miter saw and drill press. Is it reasonable to expect that I could make use of the shaper without these tools or would the lack thereof significantly negatively impact the use of the
Shaper Origin. Not sure how this forum works or if I am in the right place, so thanks for putting up with this! Hope this finds you all excellent!

FWIW, I use my Origin *all* the time for inlays, engraving, joinery, specially-shaped parts, production runs of odd parts, and did I mention joinery, joinery, and joinery...? It's the only tool I haven't had even a moment of buyers' remorse. Between my Origin, track saw, router table, and domino, I barely use my table saw any more. I just built a prototype barn chest and didn't use the table saw at all. Can't even remember the last time I even thought about dragging my miter saw out of the corner.

You can do a LOT of stuff without a table saw in particular. That's not me ragging on a table saw; I love having a nice one, but it's definitely reduced in daily usage for sure.

Food for thought.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

There are a lot of guys out there who use a bandsaw, rather than a table saw.
That and/or a track saw can do pretty much anything.
It's all about what you make and how fast you need to be. Some work-arounds might take a little more time, but still get the job done.

 

[SoonerFan]

As others have suggested it really depends on what you intend to build.

I looked at an Origin for a few weeks and was close to purchasing one. Then I started looking at flat bed CNCs and decided that was a better route for me. I ended up with a OneFinity Journeyman. It’s been a great addition to my shop. I did 8+ hours of cutting this week. But I still consider it an add-on. Before getting a CNC I got a planner, jointer and table saw. I build cabinets, vanities, shelving units, closet organization and lots of face frames. Planner, jointer, table saw get lots use in my shop with the table saw being the most used. The CNC is great for certain projects but it is not an every project tool for me. When I use the Journeyman I typically set it up to carve and start the job before lunch or dinner. This allows many jobs to complete while I am away from the constant noise of the router and dust collector. Building an enclosure to help with the noise and dust from the CNC is a “someday I will get to that project” for me.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

As others have suggested it really depends on what you intend to build.

I looked at an Origin for a few weeks and was close to purchasing one. Then I started looking at flat bed CNCs and decided that was a better route for me. I ended up with a OneFinity Journeyman. It’s been a great addition to my shop. I did 8+ hours of cutting this week. But I still consider it an add-on. Before getting a CNC I got a planner, jointer and table saw. I build cabinets, vanities, shelving units, closet organization and lots of face frames. Planner, jointer, table saw get lots use in my shop with the table saw being the most used. The CNC is great for certain projects but it is not an every project tool for me. When I use the Journeyman I typically set it up to carve and start the job before lunch or dinner. This allows many jobs to complete while I am away from the constant noise of the router and dust collector. Building an enclosure to help with the noise and dust from the CNC is a “someday I will get to that project” for me.

There are definitely differences (advantages/disadvantages) of each type.
Flat-bed (gantry type) machines are better at production, meaning multiple parts (repeated) or being able to do something else, while it runs without you. They can also "carve", as in 3-dimensional cutting.
Origin is not capable of that...yet anyway. Though the introduction of AutoPass has shown that the machine can control the Z axis, while cutting. Because of that, I wouldn't rule it out. Origin is also far more capable of working on edges, like hinge mortices, on doors. It is also far more portable, not only meaning use it anywhere, but also on any surface.
A gantry machine would have trouble with an inlay on a wooden floor. I suppose it is theoretically possible, especially with a One-Finity, but it would be quite a task. While it could cut mortices, in the sides of table legs, just as easily as Origin, cutting the matching tenons would be difficult. Again, it can be done, but most gantry machines are not equipped for it. The stretcher length would be limited to the height of the table where the machine is mounted.
Both are useful, it just depends on one's needs.
I have had my Origin for quite some time now, and it has served me well. They keep expanding its capabilities, though it can never be that "automatic, walk away, machine."

 

[SoonerFan]

There are definitely differences (advantages/disadvantages) of each type.
Flat-bed (gantry type) machines are better at production, meaning multiple parts (repeated) or being able to do something else, while it runs without you. They can also "carve", as in 3-dimensional cutting.
Origin is not capable of that...yet anyway. Though the introduction of AutoPass has shown that the machine can control the Z axis, while cutting. Because of that, I wouldn't rule it out. Origin is also far more capable of working on edges, like hinge mortices, on doors. It is also far more portable, not only meaning use it anywhere, but also on any surface.
A gantry machine would have trouble with an inlay on a wooden floor. I suppose it is theoretically possible, especially with a One-Finity, but it would be quite a task. While it could cut mortices, in the sides of table legs, just as easily as Origin, cutting the matching tenons would be difficult. Again, it can be done, but most gantry machines are not equipped for it. The stretcher length would be limited to the height of the table where the machine is mounted.
Both are useful, it just depends on one's needs.
I have had my Origin for quite some time now, and it has served me well. They keep expanding its capabilities, though it can never be that "automatic, walk away, machine."

Agree that both types have advantages and disadvantages. For me the ability to walk away while the CNC is running was the determining factor. I have used it enough now that I am comfortable walking away for a couple hours. I have also had times in the previous couple years I wish I had purchased the Origin. Never hear anyone that has the Original complain.

 

[Duckler]

There are a lot of guys out there who use a bandsaw, rather than a table saw.
That and/or a track saw can do pretty much anything.
It's all about what you make and how fast you need to be. Some work-arounds might take a little more time, but still get the job done.

I really like my bandsaw. Actually I have two Shopsmith bandsaws. I have them set up with different blades. While Shopsmith is sort of a compromise it is definitely an improvement over the little Craftsman bandsaw that I had bought (back in the last century).

 

[smorgasbord]

They can also "carve", as in 3-dimensional cutting.

This is why I got a CNC. I may still get an Origin, but I suspect that while waiting for a project that "needs it," I'll just continue to find other ways to accomplish tasks.

As for the 3D, here are the contortions it appears Shaper people need to do:

AutoPass Pattern: 5-point Star Created by Nico22 — This is a three-dimensional 5-point star that can be cut by creative use of AutoPass' ramp phase. The star comes win eight sizes, metric and imperial sizes: 9 mm, 15 mm, 20 mm, 30 mm, 3/8 in, 1/2 i

hub.shapertools.com

And here's an explanation of this trick:

AutoPass Ramp Art

I experimented a bit with AutoPass’ ramp phase and apparently it wasn’t just me who had this mischievous idea. I thought about some patterns and tried out on them how I can cut more or less three-dimensional patterns with the ramp. The fine tuning of the ramp phase of the plunge speed etc. is...

community.shapertools.com

On the CNC, those stars and flute ramps are straight-forwardly modeled and milled.

That said, the shaper is designed for woodworking carving and joints, so if that is what you mostly want to do, it'd be the better choice. For instance, I don't know how there's still a market for the expensive dovetail jigs like the Leight FMT/D4.

 

[rmhinden]

I have had a Shaper Origin for about four years. I have used it for a range of projects, some of which were complete projects, others for specific cuts or for making templates. It fits what I do pretty well, I don't have room for a standalone CNC. For me, better to bring the tool to the work. It also requires some skill to learn how to use it correctly. It's more than using a CAD program. For me, this is a feature.

I am happy I got it. I like that it get's new features periodically. None of my other tools do that

The other part of the Shaper Origin or a CNC, is learning a CAD program. Shaper's Studio program works well for me. Much easier learning curve than a more sophisticated CAD program.

 

[smorgasbord]

I went whole hog into Fusion 360 when I started CNC'ing. I'm glad I did, because that's a fully featured design tool that's suitable for both CNC and 3D printing, and has optimized tool paths for CNC machines (ramping into adaptive pocket clearing, etc.), that most other CAD programs don't have. While I have no experience with Shaper nor Shaper Studio, I'd be hesitant to dive too deeply into a CAD program tied to a specific brand of machine. My CNC is a Shapeoko, and while it's a great machine for me, I hardly ever use the software Carbide3D developed for it (Carbide Create), if only because I don't want to get locked into having to buy/use Carbide 3D machines in the future. But, some people love that software, too. And, it does have a shallower learning curve than Fusion. And note that a lot of the people saying Fusion is hard to learn are coming from another CAD program, and so they're unhappy about the differences in modeling. My observation is that it's not nearly so bad learning Fusion from scratch as there's nothing to "unlearn."

 

[Crazyraceguy]

. While I have no experience with Shaper nor Shaper Studio, I'd be hesitant to dive too deeply into a CAD program tied to a specific brand of machine.

It's not really machine specific, it is file type specific. Anything that can run an SVG file can benefit from it. Laser cutters, Vinyl cutters (Cricut) even embroidery machines.

 

[SoonerFan]

I went whole hog into Fusion 360 when I started CNC'ing. I'm glad I did, because that's a fully featured design tool that's suitable for both CNC and 3D printing, and has optimized tool paths for CNC machines (ramping into adaptive pocket clearing, etc.), that most other CAD programs don't have. While I have no experience with Shaper nor Shaper Studio, I'd be hesitant to dive too deeply into a CAD program tied to a specific brand of machine. My CNC is a Shapeoko, and while it's a great machine for me, I hardly ever use the software Carbide3D developed for it (Carbide Create), if only because I don't want to get locked into having to buy/use Carbide 3D machines in the future. But, some people love that software, too. And, it does have a shallower learning curve than Fusion. And note that a lot of the people saying Fusion is hard to learn are coming from another CAD program, and so they're unhappy about the differences in modeling. My observation is that it's not nearly so bad learning Fusion from scratch as there's nothing to "unlearn."

I am considering moving to a new CAD/design software and considered Fushion360. I currently use Easel for CAD and Cabinet Planner for cabinet design. Main advantage of Cabinet Planner is it costs about $125 and is not a subscription. Easel is easy to use but can be limiting. I could add the Easel cabinet subscription as well. Hard to find something with good features, easy to transition to, which supports for CAD/G Code and cabinet design, and comes at an affordable price point.

Suggestions welcome!