CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?

[DeformedTree]

Normal blades are 5/8" arbor here.

American blades. But not normal.  [tongue] [wink]

Correct, that was part of my point.  It's hard to get folks here to understand that a lot of what we have is not normal/standard to the world, just the US/Canada.  You show something that is used globally but not here, and they think it is oddball, wrong, non-standard, etc.  Companies continuing to support this mindset helps nothing.  It also leads into the issue that the global solution would be cheaper, but since it's un-common here, it cost much more than what we have, thus people dig into the idea of the standards they know are cheaper, when big picture they very well may not be. 

 

[AlexThePalex]

Globalisation is a fact. Not too far in the future the concept of separate countries with their own borders will be a thing of the past. We'll evolve towards one common language and, due to the cultural influence of the English in the past, and the Americans currently, it will probably be English.

But you wil not win all battles, and staying with imperial and fractions like 5/8'' is a losing game. Metric's gonna win, and the sooner you convert the more you gain.

But not to derail the conversation. I think a FastFix nut on a table saw is also a losing game. It is not the same as an angle grinder, forces with a table saw involved are bigger, and the connection should be secure, no place for experimenting.

When I decided to get a Precisio saw I first thought the CS50 would be just fine. But the special arbor totally put me off, and as luck would have it, the CS70 came by as the perfect deal for me. In retrospect, I thank God on my knees I got the 70 instead of the 50, it is just so much more saw due the extra power and table size.

 

[Svar]

I think a FastFix nut on a table saw is also a losing game. It is not the same as an angle grinder, forces with a table saw involved are bigger, and the connection should be secure, no place for experimenting.

Regarding CS50 FF blade fixture. Am I right to assume that as long as the green lever is folded the nut can't be unscrewed? Than it must be secure since centrifugal force keeps it from unfolding.

FYI. FastFix on blades is not very unique. Felder uses "Easy-Lock" tool-less blade change, which is just finger tight nut. I'm sure there is some internal locking mechanism.

 

[DeformedTree]

Globalisation is a fact. Not too far in the future the concept of separate countries with their own borders will be a thing of the past. We'll evolve towards one common language and, due to the cultural influence of the English in the past, and the Americans currently, it will probably be English.

But you wil not win all battles, and staying with imperial and fractions like 5/8'' is a losing game. Metric's gonna win, and the sooner you convert the more you gain.

But not to derail the conversation. I think a FastFix nut on a table saw is also a losing game. It is not the same as an angle grinder, forces with a table saw involved are bigger, and the connection should be secure, no place for experimenting.

We are getting there, it's generational as has been mentioned in the past on this. Even the hold out industry groups are slowly moving. It's just frustrating for all of us who wanted this to be done when we were kids.  I don't know if you have spent time in the US.  You would be shocked how much people don't really accept globalization when it comes to stuff like this. Large groups actively against using what the world uses, they actively want to be different. If the world had stuck with inches, the US would be 100% metric right now.

I can see the odd blade being a turn off if there wasn't a clear push/support for it by both Festool and others. I would have pretty much gone the same as you.  Also the CS50 just seams so small to not be useful for a lot of stuff.  A TS55 in a CMS would have been a good option for when you really needed a saw. Of course that is gone now.

To Svar, it think they must have a spring (Belleville) with an over center cam, in there that actively holds it tight, otherwise it would come off. It don't see it putting a pin in, so I would assume you could overcome it if things went south.

 

[threesixright]

Globalisation is a fact. Not too far in the future the concept of separate countries with their own borders will be a thing of the past.

Not in our lifetime. Forget it. Would be great actually, but with the current idiots at the wheel.

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[ChuckS]

A "borderless" world may (or may not) happen, but I'm 101% sure that it won't happen during my lifetime. The world is now simply too unpredictable.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Not in our lifetime. Forget it. Would be great actually, but with the current idiots at the wheel.

Indeed, not in our lifetime. But compared to the grand scale of things, a human lifetime is pretty short. Our grandchildren will see it differently.

 

[jeh]

Globalisation is a fact. Not too far in the future the concept of separate countries with their own borders will be a thing of the past. We'll evolve towards one common language and, due to the cultural influence of the English in the past, and the Americans currently, it will probably be English.

But you wil not win all battles, and staying with imperial and fractions like 5/8'' is a losing game. Metric's gonna win, and the sooner you convert the more you gain.

But not to derail the conversation. I think a FastFix nut on a table saw is also a losing game. It is not the same as an angle grinder, forces with a table saw involved are bigger, and the connection should be secure, no place for experimenting.

When I decided to get a Precisio saw I first thought the CS50 would be just fine. But the special arbor totally put me off, and as luck would have it, the CS70 came by as the perfect deal for me. In retrospect, I thank God on my knees I got the 70 instead of the 50, it is just so much more saw due the extra power and table size.

Never hurts to dream. The EU is teetering with only a handful of countries carrying the rest (Germany and France are the main ones). Germany and France have had some political flare ups in past several years and it is coming from the right. A world without borders is the most ridiculous concept ever. The US won't do it, nor will China, Russia, Australia, Canada, UK (except amongst themselves). The problem is the desirable countries do not want the baggage of the undesirable ones. No one will volunteer to subsidize the rest of the world nor will they allow them to flow into countries with viable economies.

A tables with an odd arbor is weird and probably not desirable, but there probably is a reason for it.

As for the subject of this thread wait for the SawStop version or just buy the current SawStop model. The safety aspect alone makes it worth it.

 

[jeh]

Not in our lifetime. Forget it. Would be great actually, but with the current idiots at the wheel.

Indeed, not in our lifetime. But compared to the grand scale of things, a human lifetime is pretty short. Our grandchildren will see it differently.

They will until they realize all of the earnings will go to subsidize people who do not work. On a smaller scale consider the Middle East where some countries have different groups who cannot stand one another. They already are living border free and it does not work. If you have ever worked with anyone of hispanic decent they are offended if they are thought to be from a country other than theirs. Calling a Guatemalan a Mexican is not cool. Same holds for calling an African who lives in the United States an African American. There is a strong distinction maintained by them that will not be going away.

Throw in religious intolerance and whole idea of globalism is ridiculous.

 

[ChuckS]

Snip.
Our grandchildren will see it differently.

True.

Or may be the great grand grand grand...children if not the grandchildren. 30 or 50 years ago who would have thought that the young generation would become the crusade force behind clean energy and environment, and how their demands and influences would affect the big investment funds in that regard.

 

[threesixright]

Not in our lifetime. Forget it. Would be great actually, but with the current idiots at the wheel.

Indeed, not in our lifetime. But compared to the grand scale of things, a human lifetime is pretty short. Our grandchildren will see it differently.

Cant hurt to dream, but as long we have idiots like Johnson, Trump, Putin and Xi on the controls (and people that think they are doing great). $£¥€ is unfortunately what counts. By the time “we” figured it out, there is no more planet to rule. This planet is going one way,and that’s down the hill. The best part we have behind us.  Sad.  Very sad actually.  Maybe another miracle (or a few more variants of Covid will get us in check). Personally, I have very little hope. No offense, people are idiots.

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[AlexThePalex]

Never hurts to dream.

.... and whole idea of globalism is ridiculous.

It's not a dream. Just extrapolation of facts.

Once people get to know each other, they are very tolerant of each other. The human psychology is more geared towards cooperation than opposition. Nevertheless tribalism is an old survival mechanism that's universal of all species. Like your tribalism. But luckiliy it is on the retreat amongst humans.

Why do borders exist? Territorial behavior from our ancestors, who grew up with lots of land and few people. They didn't know the other people so by default they regarded them as a danger and needed to establish their own safe zone. But the world population was 2,55 billion in 1950, now it's 7,5 billion. That's means in JUST 70 years humanity tripled in size. That means empty spaces get filled, people encroach on each other and get to know each other.

And technology gets better. In 1600 it took 3 months to get from Europe to America, now it takes 5 hours. If you wanted to communicate with someone far away, a letter also took 3 months to arrive. Now I can whip my phone out of my pocket and call or App you in America. Communication is instant.

And we have the internet. It will function as an interface between all people of the entire world. It will become a real nervous system were every human on the planet is a node.

The world is evolving, better realise that. Don't stand still. It's gonna happen anyway.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Cant hurt to dream, but as long we have idiots like Johnson, Trump, Putin and Xi on the controls (and people that think they are doing great). $£¥€ is unfortunately what counts. By the time “we” figured it out, there is no more planet to rule. This planet is going one way,and that’s down the hill. The best part we have behind us.  Sad.  Very sad actually.  Maybe another miracle (or a few more variants of Covid will get us in check). Personally, I have very little hope. No offense, people are idiots.

It saddens me to read you have such a bleak vision of the future. I think we have a period ahead that might be harder than it was before. But progress does not go without its growing pains.

And thanks for calling me an idiot.  [scared] [poke]

 

[FestitaMakool]

I think a FastFix nut on a table saw is also a losing game. It is not the same as an angle grinder, forces with a table saw involved are bigger, and the connection should be secure, no place for experimenting.

Regarding CS50 FF blade fixture. Am I right to assume that as long as the green lever is folded the nut can't be unscrewed? Than it must be secure since centrifugal force keeps it from unfolding.

FYI. FastFix on blades is not very unique. Felder uses "Easy-Lock" tool-less blade change, which is just finger tight nut. I'm sure there is some internal locking mechanism.

I’m pretty sure the lever or “D-ring” doesn’t lock. It seems to act as a handle just as it would on a flanged nut on ie a quick release screw found on many photo tripods. I’ll have a closer look, I might have missed some details though. I rather think it’s the mass of the “nut” that means it will self tighten, it has a large diameter as a big washer, but also with substantial mass.

 

[threesixright]

Cant hurt to dream, but as long we have idiots like Johnson, Trump, Putin and Xi on the controls (and people that think they are doing great). $£¥€ is unfortunately what counts. By the time “we” figured it out, there is no more planet to rule. This planet is going one way,and that’s down the hill. The best part we have behind us.  Sad.  Very sad actually.  Maybe another miracle (or a few more variants of Covid will get us in check). Personally, I have very little hope. No offense, people are idiots.

And thanks for calling me an idiot.  [scared] [poke]

[oops]

Exceptions confirm the rule  I'm sure you (and many others here) are "non idiots". I was merely pointing to the majority.

Whichever way I look, North, East, South or West. All horror. If people are not fleeing for bullets, then its hunger. And if not that, than some f-ed dictator using them as pawns. And this list goes on and on and on. A life is worth next nothing in big parts of this world. And dito for nature. I don't see in the coming century border's disappearing. Growing pains sure, but politics are invested to much of lobby. They (the lobby) makes moving truly forward impossible: Oil, Sugar, Weapons (to name a few), basically mafia. 3 steps forward, 2 steps back.

Just looking at the last 24h of news, is enough to be horrified for the whole year. I wish there was a silver lining, I truly do...

SORRY for going off topic!

 

[peter halle]

Let’s stick to talking about the tools and leave the political or governmental stuff for some other place on the internet please.

Peter Halle - Moderator

 

[threesixright]

Let’s stick to talking about the tools and leave the political or governmental stuff for some other place on the internet please.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Agreed. Sorry, got carried away :X

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[DeformedTree]

Borders are not one kind of thing.  There are many types.  Some borders go away, others do not.

Everyone is talking in this thread on an internet, that is basically borderless, we can talk like there are no borders.  Meanwhile there are nation borders, those are unlikely to change, and folks get upset when someone(s) does something to alter them. None of us would be talking across these our countries borders 40 years ago.  Alex wouldn't waste postage to send me a random (but I'm sure nicely written letter) to tell me my country is doing it wrong.

Standardization is borderless. The only thing that stops everyone from being on the same page is people.  Some stuff everyone accepts pretty well, like using English for air traffic control.  Other stuff like Electricity Spec is pretty close 2ish Voltages, 2ish frequencies.  But within that a mess of plugs.

Standards and the borders they cross change in large part from economic forces. 

Blade sizes may standardize, arbors may standardize (maybe even something completely new).  Blade stop tech may get standardized. Maybe blade stop tech gets mandated, not standardized in method/parts, but it would cause people to no longer have the discussion of the OP.  Still, if people aren't exposed to different ways, and or are unwilling to change from what they know, nothing will change.

(edit - agree with Peter, posted while he put up his post)

 

[CeeJay]

So back on topic....

Can’t help with star-shaped arbors which does seem a bit ‘special’ but there are such things as arbor shims.

So long as you get a larger arbor size eg 30mm you can always (safely) shim down to 1”, 25mm or 5/8”. My mitre saw takes 30mm, table saw 5/8”. I have a couple of blades (fine cut crosscuts) that occasionally I swap from one to the other. The arbor shim is my friend.

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[Woozal]

That saw looks hilarious. I’d be afraid to use it.Not enough stable weight to it. How do you put a $200 woodworker blade o it?