CSC SYS 50 sled and runner

[njt1000]

I was making a small sled for my table saw to hold down small pieces at odd angles and thought to reuse the rail from the included miter gauge. However, whilst most of it came apart with a couple of screws, the final piece is proving hard to disassemble. Has anyone managed to do this? The fit is so good, I was hoping to reuse the original.

I’ve also added some t-track to the back of the sled so I can attach it the the mitre just by removing the fence, but it’s a little sloppy.

I had also looked at the matchfit solution, but it doesn’t support this table saw.

Interested if anyone else has built a sled for this saw, and if so, did they just make their own hardwood runner, or was something available?

 

[ElectricFeet]

I’ve got some form here, yes. 

FWIW, here are my scruffy notes of the measurements for making rails. Because the sliding table is slightly concave, and depending on your use-case, you may need to make the bar more or less tall. Alternatively, you can add shims between the sled and the bar for each use-case.

[attachimg=1]

First, here is a rip sled that I made, with POM / slippy plastic rails. The doesn’t use the CSC’s sliding table as a slider per se. Instead, it uses the tracks in the table and runs through them.

[attachimg=2]

Pros:
- The rails / the sled can be as long as you want.
- The final result works, albeit a little sluggishly and it’s a bit grabby in use.

Cons:
- I found the POM to be really difficult to rip, as it slides and bends all over the place.
- Cutting this on the CSC accurately without other machines is difficult. The rails aren’t running through traditional deep tracks with rectangular sides; they’re running through rounded aluminium profiles just ~2mm deep, along the tangents. So you need to get the fit absolutely right, yet the bendiness / slipperiness of the POM made it really almost impossible to creep up on the fit. And because you need 2 rails for stablity, you have to multiply the accuracy problems by two, to cut the second rail a different size.
- The dust it creates gets everywhere and it’s static/clingy, so it’s a mess.
- Once cut, the rails are bendy, so it’s difficult to fix the rails straight on the sled.
- Despite drilling very accurate holes (Shaper Origin FTW), the plastic has a little bit of give to it, which means that if bolts want to dig in irregularly, they can. (I used nuts and bolts, rather than screws, which would have bulged out the plastic. Maybe screws would ultimately have been easier.)
- trying to sand down the high spots just clogged the sandpaper.

I’m not a fan of this solution at all. It was very frustrating. However, in the end, it did the job I needed it to.

Second is my favourite solution for clamping into the sliding table: a short rail made from bamboo. I have yet to finish the rest of this jig, but the bamboo is a dream to cut / size / work with and the bar clamps perfectly into the table.

[attachimg=3]

[The bamboo in the pic is actually from a cheap cutting board. If you don’t already have any bamboo in the shop, it’s a great way to get a tiny amount cheaply. ~10mm thick is best for this.]

Cutting to the exact size is easy. Just place the Festool CSC mitre bar between the fence and the blade and move the fence to fit. This gives you the perfect width; no measurements needed. The material needs to be about 10.5mm thick, but there’s some leeway: the last key step is cutting some rebates with a router and this allows you to dial in the up/down position in the track (see measurements pic above).

Pros:
- Extremely easy to cut.
- The bamboo seems to be really stable.
- Clamps a dream — it’s very hard and is very similar to the aluminium in this respect.

Cons:
- None so far.

Third was me trying to find a solution that will allow me to use a standard 3/4” aluminum mitre bar and clamp it into the sliding table. This was so that I could attach a commercial aluminium router sled I have, which attaches to a standard 3/4” bar.

[attachimg=4]

Basically, take a standard cheap-as-chips aluminium mitre gauge bar that you can buy online. Remove the adjustment washers. Glue on a thin strip (exactly) 1.2mm x ~8mm on one side (I cut mine from a 1.2mm plate of Dibond, which I happened to have). Then glue on a ~2mm x ~15mm strip on top — one that you have drilled with strategically-placed holes, to give access to the pre-tapped threads in the standard bar. You may need to re-buy the hardware fixings for whatever jig/sled you are attaching to the bar, as the threads are now deeper in the assembly.

Pros:
- Clamps perfectly.
- It’s not much effort to make.
- It allows you to use a myriad of commercial sleds/jigs that are based on standard mitre gauge bars and clamp them into the sliding table — including for example, a 3rd-party mitre gauge.
- It doesn’t depend on any cutting accuracy; just the exact thickness of the side material (and not using too much (or uneven) glue).

Cons:
- It’s a bit trial-and-error and feels “botched”, but it actually works fine.
- Getting hold of the right thickness materials might be difficult. It took me a few evenings of measuring virtually everything I had to see what would work.

There’s no perfect solution for every scenario. And no 3rd party solutions to my knowledge. But these are 3 approaches for you to mull over.

p.s. I wouldn’t disassemble the original mitre gauge bar. It’s a one-way path, I think, and it doesn’t buy you anything as all the holes are in proprietary places too.

 

[njt1000]

[member=64013]ElectricFeet[/member] Thank you so much for the detailed designs and solutions. It’s going to save me a lot of trial and error. I’ll take a go at options two and three for a sled and mitre solution.

I have an Incra 1000HD that I’d like to use, so I spoke with Incra to get their input on replacing the rail, and they’ve provided some very detailed instructions. I’ll include them here in case it’s useful to others.

Yes, transplanting the protractor mechanics to a different bar is a straightforward job in your own shop.  A wooden or plastic runner won't give you the consistency you want…the bare minimum would be a stiff composite like phenolic, but a steel or aluminum miter bar is best.

You can either use the guide bar from the saw's original miter gauge as a destination, or sometimes spare bars are available from the saw's manufacturer.  Because Incra miter gauges are calibrated for “squareness” after they're assembled, there's some forgiveness in the locations of the 4 threaded holes…+/- 1/64" (0.4mm) is close enough.

Also, if the original miter bar is loose in the slot, this doesn't affect accuracy with proper technique…I can expand on that if you like.

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If you want to transplant the Incra mechanics onto a different bar, this method doesn't require special tools beyond the standard thread taps found in hardware stores –

1 - Remove the adjusting discs, protractor, & lever assemblies from the Incra miter bar. Take a photo or otherwise note the location of the various spacers and washers around the angle lever before disassembling. The pivot bolts for the lever and protractor are usually very tight.

2- Clamp the bar on top of the saw’s original miter bar so the long edges are parallel.  The bars don’t need to be centered on one another, just align them flush along one edge and clamp them down on your workbench.

3 - Select drill bits that are sized to fit through the threaded holes in the Incra miter bar without a sloppy fit, and then use a hand-held drill to gently mark the hole locations in the destination bar using the Incra bar as a template.  You can wrap masking tape around an undersized drill bit to snug up the fit in the Incra miter bar’s threaded holes and help keep the bit centered. 

4 - Mark the hole locations, but don’t drill large dimples that will cause the bit to wander during the final drilling.  Unclamp and separate the bars after you've marked the holes.

5 - Set up a fence or clamp a board across your drill press table to provide a reference for the edge of the miter bar as you drill it.  This guarantees that the series of holes will be in a straight line and parallel to the edge of the bar.  The holes don't need to be centered on the miter bar.

6 - The thread sizes used are 1/4”-20 at the knobs and #10-24 at the pivot bolts, so the holes should be sized appropriately to accept those thread taps.  There is some leeway, but the ideal sizes are a #25 drill bit (0.1495”) and a #7 drill bit (0.201”).  Bits sized to the nearest 1/64" should also work fine. 

Make sure the drill bits are SHARP… Traditional hardware stores sell bits individually, and it's worth buying a couple fresh ones if there's any question.

7 - When threading the holes, a few drops of thread cutting oil is perfect (sold in the plumbing aisle), but heavier machine oil can work.  There's a ton of info on the Internet & YouTube about tapping threads into mild steel like our miter bars if you need a refresher on the process.

8 - With the holes drilled and threads tapped, transfer the parts to the new bar.    The pivot bolts should be fully tightened, and they bottom out against the top of the miter bar.  It's normal for the nylon spacers under the head to be loose after the bolts are tightened.

9 - With the pivot bolts fully tightened and the locking knobs in place, loosen the fence mounting bracket and calibrate the gauge to cut square when the gauge is locked at zero degrees.

The miter gauge owner's manual will illustrate squaring against the saw blade as a starting point, but calibrating against the saw’s miter slot is better because there are fewer variables like saw alignment & blade flatness…this is the most accurate no-test-cut method. 

This photo illustrates the process –
link to diagram

 

[smorgasbord]

... calibrating against the saw’s miter slot is better because there are fewer variables like saw alignment & blade flatness…this is the most accurate no-test-cut method.

The easiest, accurate way to align a miter gauge is to simply align the fence to the bar using a trusted square. Like this:
[attachimg=1]

You can then test using the 5-cut method. Note that things such as slop of the bar in the slot, the fence not being perfectly flat, etc. can interfere with any method's accuracy. If you're really anal, you do the 5-cut method with different sizes of stock to compare and help isolate issues.

 

[Rocket Designer]

I'm in the process of getting some bamboo to mill the profile to make a few mitre bars for my Festool CSC. Has anyone other than ElectricFeet done this yet, and have you made any sleds etc. to attach to the mitre bars? I'm also going to try making a mitre bar out of Baltic Birch plywood. I will post photos if they work.  Ideally I'd like to be able to use a Incra or other quality mitre gauge with the CSC, but this is somewhat problematic due to Festools propriety mitre slot in the CSC. I  also have ideas for making Baltic Birch plywood fences for both the mitre gauge and a 1 metre long fence with infeed and outfeed supports.