CT MIDI or CT 26?

[ChuckM]

Someone mentioned the setup with the CT15 + cyclone.
I was looking the specifications, and the CT15 is more used to clean construction sites.
It doesn't have an M or L dust class specification (in Europe), therefore I don't think that it's suitable to use in a woodworking environment.
Am I thinking correctly?
That explains why it's much cheaper than the the Mini or Midi.

The Mini also seems tempting, but the 7.5L bag doesn't seem to be enough, even with a cyclone... or is it?

A little off topic, since I'm based in Europe, I'm not able to buy the DD, so I think I will try the Dust Commander, it seems to have high user ratings.

I'm not familiar with (a.k.a. ignorant of) the dust class spec. But the CT15, mini and midi share the same HEPA bags, so my layman's take is that the CT15 is good for woodworking purposes (sanding, etc.):https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...-midi-and-ct-15-dust-extractors?item=ZA204308

My guess is also that the majority of shop vacs found in N.A. don't meet the dust class spec. as used in Europe. (I outfit my shop vacs with a HEPA filter where applicable though.)

All dollars are in CAD.

Here is a comparison table found on Highland Woodworking, and I don't see anything mentioned about CT15 being not suitable for woodworking tasks:
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/festool-vacuum-comparison.aspx

 

[antoniomcs]

It seems that in Europe the designations are different.
There isn't HEPA filters, but L, M and H filters:
You can see here for more information:https://www.protrade.co.uk/blog/dust-extraction-classes-explained/

Taking for example the Festool site in the UK.
So, for the CT15, it says this (https://www.festool.co.uk/products/dust-extraction/mobile-dust-extractors/574830---ct-15-gb-240v#Usage):

Main applications

    For cleaning offices, workshops, garages, motor vehicles and construction sites
    Absorbing water

And the filter doesn't have any classification.

While for the Mini (https://www.festool.co.uk/products/dust-extraction/mobile-dust-extractors/574843---ctl-mini-i-gb-240v#Functions):

Main applications

    For dust with limit values > 1 mg/m³
    On-site extraction for electric power tools for minor or brief sanding, routing, sawing and drilling work
    Ideal for mobile use in service and installation work and for final cleaning
    Suitable for both wet and dry extraction (special wet filter required for wet extraction)

And in the same page, you can check in the "Function" section that has the approval for dust class L.

 

[ChuckM]

My understanding of the Main Applications is that they are product/marketing descriptions, not necessarily defining what the product can do.

Not just filter bags, we also go by HEPA for the main filters:https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...i-midi-and-15-e-dust-extractors?item=ZA204201

(And as in the case of bags, the mini, midi and CT15 use the same filter.)

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
So do what you think is best for you - not someone else's idea of what is best for you.

This isn't how forum discussions usually work.

If the OP already knew what was best for him, he wouldn't have made his post in the first place. No?

I think the OP has narrowed down his choices (plural), but wanted to find out if he might have missed anything.

 

[ChuckM]

Lecture?

 

[antoniomcs]

Oh, for heaven's sake. Reading threads like these is always like trying to wade through molasses whilst wearing lead-weighted diving boots. I've said it before and I'll say it again - 95% of the 'advice' you're being presented with is from over-thinking hobbyists who don't do this for a living, and who think that spending grey-and-green $$$$$ is the only way to attain woodworking nirvana. It's NOT.

Anyone on here who has a CT15 will recommend a CT15.
Anyone on here who has a MIDI will recommend a MIDI.
Anyone on here who has a CT26 will recommend a CT26.
Anyone on here who has a Festool CA-VA-20 will recommend a Festool CA-VA-20.
Anyone on here who has a Dust Deputy will recommend a Dust Deputy.

The personal, private opinions of guys who have no clue what your individual situation is - they all mean zilch. It's not their own money these guys are spending - it's yours. The stellar Festool extraction setup I personally use is 100% irrelevant - because it's set up for my needs, not yours. I wouldn't dream of even mentioning what I use, because it won't benefit you in any possible way.

Would you come on here to get some unknown internet avatar to recommend a suitable wife or girlfriend for you? Would you maybe consider spending $$$$$$ thousands of your hard-earned money on a Bugatti Chiron or cherry-red Tesla Roadster just for you -  or maybe buy a V8, 5-litre, city-sized diesel Audi SUV for the family you just happen to have? Or a Honda Civic? Or maybe a pedal bike? Or a skateboard? Or a pair of nice walking shoes? Or a Zimmer frame?

Just do what you think is best for you - not someone else's idea of what is best for you.

I understand what you're saying and I thank you for the advice, but I'm someone who is transitioning from hand tools to power tools and never used a dust extractor, or a CNC. I'm concerned about my health, and I want to make the right choices, about the dust extractors and the setup I need, according to my budget. That's why I asked advice about you guys, who already own the dust extractors, or have a similar setup, so that I can make my own choices.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecture

When I look for definitions or something of credibility, wiki is the last place I'd think of.

As far as all the posts in this thread are concerned, I see, sense and feel nothing lecturesome.

 

[mino]

...
A CT-VA 20 at €275... equals 55 bags. That's almost 1.5 cubic metres of dust...

For me as DIY user.. it will take way too long to get a return on that investment
...

I believe you missed the point about CNC use case.

Even a small CNC can produce an enormous quantity of dust. Basically one full cyclone bin per job is nothing out of the ordinary.

Does it mean that I would have to switch hoses in the festool every time I would use the CNC or a bench tool?

Not have to but want to.

You want the small, low-air-volume-high-suction and easy to hold hose for manual wortk - so the default D27.

Then, you want to add a D36 hose for CNC/big tools use to maximize air volume.

Also, the hoses can be connected to one another (without additional adapters), so you get a 7m "hose" for those cases where the basic 3.5m one is too short.

Someone mentioned the setup with the CT15 + cyclone.
I was looking the specifications, and the CT15 is more used to clean construction sites.
It doesn't have an M or L dust class specification (in Europe), therefore I don't think that it's suitable to use in a woodworking environment.
Am I thinking correctly?
That explains why it's much cheaper than the the Mini or Midi.

The Mini also seems tempting, but the 7.5L bag doesn't seem to be enough, even with a cyclone... or is it?

The CT15 does not have (compared to a Midi):
- hose garage (can do without)
- ships with basic, not-antistatic hose (you WANT the AS hose, unless for use on construction site, but you can buy an AS hose later allways, the AS hose costs €100 or so ..)
- Bluetooth (again, you WANT this in a multi-use vac)
- manual-clean lever (again, you WANT this in a multi-use vac)
- formal L/M/H class certification (this is just a sticker, nothing more, useless for home user)

EVERYTHING else on CT15 is identical to a CTL Midi. The parts are identical - you can check it in Festool parts catalog.

Ref. the 7.5 liter bag being "small": With a cyclone, the bag gets only 1-5% of dust in it so that is not a problem - as long as you do no over-flow the cyclone capacity, in which case any bag will be filled fast ...

But. The Mini being the smallest, is also an excellent mobile tool to use around the house/flat etc.

Full Disclosure:
I am a pure hobby user and went with the all-bells-and-whistles CTM36 + Bluetooth + Cleaning kit + addl D36 hose + CT-VA for €1200 or so.

But I had the budget and wanted the CTM36 for heavy concrete/gypsum work also. Still, now I know it was a mistake.

Today, doing it again, I would have got the Mini + CT-VA for 90% use cases, and from saved monye added a bare CT-15 dedicated to a mitter saw station with a big D50 hose for max air volume.

One thing to avoid, from all the great options - avoid CT15 as your main and only vac. You cannot add Bluetooth button to it and once you upgrade in future, you will hate yourself not getting a Mini or Midi with bluetooth button from the get go. The remote is highly addictive, even without having Festool battery tools..

 

[Coen]

...
A CT-VA 20 at €275... equals 55 bags. That's almost 1.5 cubic metres of dust...

For me as DIY user.. it will take way too long to get a return on that investment
...

I believe you missed the point about CNC use case.

Even a small CNC can produce an enormous quantity of dust. Basically one full cyclone bin per job is nothing out of the ordinary.

No I didn't. That's why I said that he needs to so the calculation for his own specific situation. But questions from DIY users are often answered here by users that assume a much higher bag fill rate basee on their own use.

For me it's simply not worth it. Not just because of the long payoff time... I have plenty of stuff that falls in that category, but also based on space. Garage space is a premium in a densly populated land where people live in row houses on 110 m² (1184 sq ft in funny units) plots of land.

 

[gunnyr]

snip.

As an aside, IMHO a cyclone or separator is best used to increase capacity, not save money on bags.  You have to buy a lot of bags to get your money back on the Festool Separator.  Trend makes aftermarket bags that I've found to be more than adequate.

So, imagine you're using the CNC with the MIDI or the 26, without a cyclone.
And what if the bags are full in the middle of the work?
You can't pause the CNC (I think), just to change bags... isn't the best solution to use the dust extractor + cyclone?

Seems that the CNC is your main concern.  Given that I'm not sure a Festool Extractor is the best solution for you.  Have you considered one of the stand alone cyclone dust collectors?  Even the smallest of them have a much larger capacity than a CT-48 with the benefit of being able to attach 4-6 inch hose to it.