CT25 Use Cases

[AndyEl]

Hi All,

I am looking to up my game in woodworking and have decided to refit 1/2 of my 2-car garage into a workshop.  I've acquired a MFT/3, TS60 track saw, an OF1400 router, and soon a festool RO sander to start.  I was looking into the different dust extractors, and one local shop suggested I look at CT25.  That's great because it's affordable, but I am concerned about what I am being told and what I am reading/seeing on the internet around the use cases with it.

This will be 90% tool-attached, and most/all of the information I can find is marketing it as a good cleanup vac.  This confuses me since there is also a tool power plug - which hopefully can handle any hand tool at 2A.

Money is not an issue (to a point); I don't want to regret buying a budget-line when I could miss out on other features in higher models, or spend the equivalent $$ in modification like an upgraded hose. 

Thoughts?

 

[kotto]

CT 26 AC (or CT 36 AC) & bluetooth module a choice you won't regret later.

 

[jonnyrocket]

I see this as an ideal extractor for those looking for an extractor that will be used in combination with corded power tools and dedicated to the shop.

The two big differences to compare to either the MIDI model or the bigger CT-26:
1- CT25 lacks  Bluetooth and doesn’t have a way to upgrade it down the road. Trying to use the CT25 with any of the battery tools would require manually turning the extractor on or off.  Which may not be a huge deal for those who haven’t been spoiled by this feature previously.
2- Hose type. The black hose on the CT25 is an anti static hose, but it’s not the very nice braided sleeve hoses that everyone loves. The braided hoses shine for using while sanding as well as using inside a finished house where a hose could rub against finished baseboards or cabinetry. 

But with that said, even for a shop dedicated vac, I am a big fan of the Bluetooth remote.

So if money isn’t the deciding factor, I would consider the new MIDI or a CT-26 with the Bluetooth module.

 

[squall_line]

Using those fun logic diagrams from school:

CT 15 : CT 25 :: CT MINI-I : CT MIDI-I
and
CT 15 : CT MINI-I :: CT 25 : CT MIDI-I

That is, the CT 25 is either a larger-tubbed CT 15, or a de-contented CT MIDI-I.

If money isn't an issue and the size/use case fits your needs, the CT MIDI-I will make you happier than the CT 25 in the long run.  I still get a little bit of a smile every time I use the Bluetooth button.  I actually use the brake more than I thought I would, too, when I get out of the garage or basement and out on the driveway.

 

[mino]

For a hobby user - i.e. one who does not produce copious amounts of dust - you are better off with the Midi unit with the Bluetooth capability and the better hose.

If you were on a tight budget (you are not), look for the CT 15 instead. The CT 25 is a great vac compared to the competition, no question there. It is just that Festool has even better options and noting your current investment the Midi is the lowest end I would go.

ADD:
Just in case you were wondering ... yes, you can buy a CT 25 tub separately as a spare part. So you may want to go with a CT Mini (small tub, easier for mobile work around the house) and combine it with a spare-part CT25 tub which you would keep in the shop.

The CT 26/36/48 series are similar with the difference there are no "bare" motor unit options and AC is instead available. All those vacs form two series - "small"  series: Mini/Midi/CT 15/CT25 and the "big" series: CT 26/36/48 with the motor units and tubs intechangeable within the series.

These are just like LEGOs .. so happy playing!
[smile]

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Welcome to the FOG.

Contribution here from a professional woodworker with 36 years on the tools. I'll keep it succinct, honest, and very much to-the-point - but possibly divisive amongst those of us who love to over-complicate stuff;

1 - Bluetooth is a pointless red herring unless your tools are cordless, or unless you're too tired to walk the 3 steps/3.5 metres to your extractor and turn it on in 'manual' mode - then repeating the crippling 3-step/3.5-metre walk back, once you're done cutting or routing. Your TS60 and the OF 1400 aren't cordless, and neither will your future RO be. Plug them into the power output socket, set the extractor to 'Auto' and all will function beautifully without any unnecessary add-on gadgets.

2 - AC is 100% unnecessary unless you're going to spend half your life sanding drywall, and using your extractor without a bag. For woodworking, the standard 'Hepa' (or 'L' version in the UK) bagged version is absolutely the way to go. Whatever miniscule particles get through the bag will be captured by the secondary filter located in front of the turbine motor. Filling your 26-litre bags too quickly and spending fortunes on replacements? The CT-VA-20 cyclone separator will probably be a good friend to you in the future.

3 - CT25? The go-to industrial standard is the CT26. I do a lot of site work, and 95% of the pro's I work alongside rock up with one of these, myself included. Sure - the extra 1 litre of capacity could be construed as being similar to the Spinal Tap 'These go to eleven' scenario - but it's a beautiful machine which has an awful lot going for it. The bigger wheels alone are worth the extra IMO.

I wouldn't presume to go down the 'buy this, buy that' route since it's your hard-earned money - not mine. What I would advise, however, is a potential future upgrade to the 36mm hose over the already-superb smooth, braided, superflexible 27mm hose supplied with the CT26. Think those additional 9 millimetres won't make a difference to extraction quality? They do. They really do.

Hope you get fixed up.

Kevin

Edit = you've unwittingly plunged straight into the FOG danger zone with your first 'what would you do?' post. You'll almost certainly receive a bunch of well-meaning (and equally-valid) replies from members (myself included btw) telling you what they have, why they use it, and what works for them. Just remember that your situation is unique to you. Buy equipment which is going to meet your needs. Not everyone else's.

 

[ghhsolutions]

This is my use case as an example. I have a CT25, Midi-I and CTL-SYS. The CTL-SYS is equipped with a CT-VA 20 and is dedicated to a TS55 on the MFT/3. The CT25 has a 1.75m 36mm hose and moves between my Kapex, router table and table saw. The Midi is used for sanding and any site work. It has the optional SB-CT handle that makes it easier to move around and the handle storage is populated with a cleaning kit. I also have the bluetooth remote which makes cleaning easier and also using cordless non-Festool tools. The ability to T-Loc Systainers to the top of the Midi is invaluable out of the workshop.

If I could only have one it would be the Midi.

 

[AndyEl]

Thanks for sharing your use cases and perspective!  I'm leaning towards the MIDI with options to beef up the bagging capacity, but the 26 has a clear edge which does increase cost/size a bit with the BT option, Hose diameter, and separator.  As much as I think it won't happen, there may be a table saw in the next 6 months coming (my wife is not sold on my idea of being able to do most everything a table saw can do with just a router and track saw).

Decisions, decisions!  This is an awesome forum, and I feel like I have the right and practical data to decide.

 

[ChuckM]

If the table saw you have in mind is a cabinet saw, the CT series won't be suitable. You'd need a dust collector for a full-size table saw.

 

[woodferret]

Re: the BT.  I used to have an old MIDI (non BT) that I hooked up to an outdoor remote.  Velco it to the hose and you get 90% of the functionality.  When I upgraded to the MIDI I BT, that 10% is nice.  Noice.  BT and plug work interchangeably, where previously I always had to remember to manually remotely start/stop since the vac was set to MAN mode.  It's a tiny mental alleviation, but it's noticeable quality of life. 

Can I do the crippling button press before using a plunge saw if the apocalypse hit?  Yes.  But now, with the BT, I don't have to turn it on before facing off with zombies if I don't want the guts all over the place.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=80676]AndyEl[/member]  I probably wouldn't have contributed to the confusion (dead horse) but for the penultimate sentence. With the exception of Festool's new mini table saw I don't remember the number yet) none of the CT extractors moves enough volume of air for a table saw.  CTs pull high pressure/speed but it doesn't do much inside of a relatively large space, such as a table saw's lower case.

Now that I am here anyway, you get the rest too  [big grin]
I am in about 95% agreement with [member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member]. The CT-15 (or 25) will do the same as any of the others as far as the suction part, along with the tool-triggering function. For a hobby woodworker, that is more than adequate.
Where the details start to matter is whether the ability to attach Systainers to the top of the CT is important or not?
Although the Bluetooth capability is very handy, is not that big of a deal for a weekend or evening guy.
I have one, as a pro cabinet maker, because I use it frequently (and with a router table that draws too much power to run through the CTs outlet) I definitely did without it for years and wouldn't go out of my way to spend the extra $ to get it. As a hobbyist, I wouldn't bother.
When I needed a second unit, I bought a CT15. (The 25 wasn't available yet)
The CT VA-20 (or another separator) may or may not be useful, depending on your volume.
Sanding and track saw use don't make large chips, and that smaller dust packs very well into a CT. Bags can last surprisingly long, until you get into routing or planing.
The newer black hoses are anti-static, as opposed to the old silver ones, which were not.
If you intend to take advantage of the dust collection ability of the OF1400 (many do not) it would be great to get a 36mm hose. You could use it with the TS60 too, but it's not really necessary.

Either way, good luck with your adventures

Edited to add You really can do most things with a track saw and a router. It may take some creativity and a jig or two, but it can be done. There are guys out there with a bandsaw instead of a table saw.

 

[Coen]

CT 26 AC (or CT 36 AC) & bluetooth module a choice you won't regret later.

26 is something else than 25

 

[mino]

CT 26 AC (or CT 36 AC) & bluetooth module a choice you won't regret later.

26 is something else than 25

That and AC being pretty much a net negative for a woodworker. The risk of accidentaly triggering the AC "thorough cleanup" function, destroying the bag in the process ... been there, done that. No, thanks.

 

[kotto]

CT 26 AC (or CT 36 AC) & bluetooth module a choice you won't regret later.

26 is something else than 25

I meant that 26 (36) is a much more universal thing, the redundant capabilities of which can easily be used in a variety of jobs

 

[kotto]

That and AC being pretty much a net negative for a woodworker. The risk of accidentaly triggering the AC "thorough cleanup" function, destroying the bag in the process ... been there, done that. No, thanks.

it's just a matter of accuracy, nothing more

 

[mino]

it's just a matter of accuracy, nothing more

Not really. The AC mode thorough cleaning function is just a bit of a knob rotation away when turing on the vac. Sure, walking on toetips around the vac solves this .. but even that falls right through once a second person is involved.

A better behavior would be for the thorough-clean function to be disabled when the AC knob is on zero ... we can wish.

 

[squall_line]

[member=80676]AndyEl[/member]
I am in about 95% agreement with [member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member]. The CT-15 (or 25) will do the same as any of the others as far as the suction part, along with the tool-triggering function. For a hobby woodworker, that is more than adequate.
Where the details start to matter is whether the ability to attach Systainers to the top of the CT is important or not?
Although the Bluetooth capability is very handy, is not that big of a deal for a weekend or evening guy.
I have one, as a pro cabinet maker, because I use it frequently (and with a router table that draws too much power to run through the CTs outlet) I definitely did without it for years and wouldn't go out of my way to spend the extra $ to get it. As a hobbyist, I wouldn't bother.

As someone whose garage is always in a state of flux, I haven't physically caught sight of my CT-26 in a month or two, but with the BT remote I don't have to worry about being able to access it to turn it on and off when drilling or cleaning up, either.  The hose and plug-it cord are just sitting there waiting for me to grab them and put them to use while the rest of the project pieces block my path to and from the vac.

In the house, on the MIDI, it's definitely a luxury, but one I've grown quite accustomed to having around.

I didn't realize until a month or two ago, but my old school CT MINI (pre-I) has a 12 gauge cord on it  [eek]  I no longer hesitate to plug my Kapex into that little guy, other than wanting to shorten the cleanup-kit hose quite a bit.  I'm pretty sure I'm on a 15 amp circuit, so I'll trip a breaker before I even come close to heating up the cord on that thing.  Also explains why there's only just barely enough room in the hose garage for the hose and the cord at the same time.  The cord wrap from the MIDI-I was a game changer when I mounted it on the MINI.

 

[HighlandMarine]

Hi All,

I am looking to up my game in woodworking and have decided to refit 1/2 of my 2-car garage into a workshop.  I've acquired a MFT/3, TS60 track saw, an OF1400 router, and soon a festool RO sander to start.  I was looking into the different dust extractors, and one local shop suggested I look at CT25.  That's great because it's affordable, but I am concerned about what I am being told and what I am reading/seeing on the internet around the use cases with it.

This will be 90% tool-attached, and most/all of the information I can find is marketing it as a good cleanup vac.  This confuses me since there is also a tool power plug - which hopefully can handle any hand tool at 2A.

Money is not an issue (to a point); I don't want to regret buying a budget-line when I could miss out on other features in higher models, or spend the equivalent $$ in modification like an upgraded hose. 

Thoughts?

If it’s mostly consuming saw dust and chips, CT26 would be my suggestion. We run this on anything that makes chips/sawdust, then the midi runs the sanders mostly or anything wi fine particulate, and the Ctc-sys for quick cleanup, single pass type work.

 

[Coen]

[...]

I didn't realize until a month or two ago, but my old school CT MINI (pre-I) has a 12 gauge cord on it  [eek]  I no longer hesitate to plug my Kapex into that little guy, other than wanting to shorten the cleanup-kit hose quite a bit.  I'm pretty sure I'm on a 15 amp circuit, so I'll trip a breaker before I even come close to heating up the cord on that thing.  Also explains why there's only just barely enough room in the hose garage for the hose and the cord at the same time.  The cord wrap from the MIDI-I was a game changer when I mounted it on the MINI.

What? 4 mm2? That is insane.

 

[mino]

What? 4 mm2? That is insane.

For wiring, 12 gauge is 2.5 mm would be 3.3 mm2 in the metric parlance.

EDIT:
I remembered that generaly 2.5 is "replaced" by 12 GA for US ... but these are not really equivalent:https://www.batteryequivalents.com/12-gauge-wire-ampacity.html

Kinda makes sense given the currents these see at 110V ... reminds me I wanted to retrofit my CTM 36 with a 3G2.5 TITANEX and an industrial plug after the warranty expired .. which was like a few months ago.
[smile]