CXS 18 , is it powerful enough?

[Sauvecreates]

Hi folks,

I have been obsessively eyeing up a lot of the Festool range lately, as my scope of work now is exclusively custom/high-end work. After 5 years of business, I can now niche out and start to pick my jobs.

I have a Midi I, and the TS60 - absolutely love both - but my question is about the CXS 18, and centrotec.

I get that everything Festool is basically amazing, and I should just buy it.... but I just got the Milwaukee m12 installation drill and 6.0 battery. It's a great little drill, but there's tons of play in the bits and its still underpowered to use it for more than tedious hardware installs. I keep having to go to a milwaukee m18 to drill fasteners into hardwood. I was looking at the cxs 18 but I wanted to make sure I can install screws into white oak without grabbing my big m18 drill. An example of this would be fitting hinges into a solid oak door jamb.

I've also been a bit hesitant to get into centrotec, as centrotec isnt as available as normal bits...but I suppose it's worth it to start slowly collecting centrotec if its superior.

I would love feedback from cxs 18 users  .

Thanks,

Scott

 

[Crazyraceguy]

You are kind of raising two points here, the CXS18 and Centro-tech attachment.
I can't help you with the CXS, since the one I have is the original 10.8v model. The Centro-tech aspect however, I do know something about.
As you have already discovered, the Milwaukee's hex chuck is nowhere near as stable as the Centro-tech.
It is bad enough with driver bits, but it gets even worse with drill bits.
Personally, I drive wood screws with an impact driver and reserve the CXS for hardware type screws and always pre-drill first.
It is indeed worth it to build up some Centrotech bits, starting with the driver tip type that you use most.
Then some drill bits. It can really save you to be able to drill with the 90 degree adapter and not get the actual drill chuck involved. Almost any type of driver that you might need is available with a Centrotech shank, but it might take a bit more effort. You would have to have a really good woodworking store to find them locally, but there are plenty of online sellers. Hartville Hardware has never failed me.

 

[GaryA]

I have the C18 and the CXS 10.8. The CXS 10.8 was my every day use drill driver and the C18 for heavier drilling use.
I then bought the CXS18 and the others just don't get used hardly any more. The only thing I changed was adding a 13mm chuck to the CXS18 box for occasional larger drill bits.
It is a bit bigger than the 10.8 and smaller than the C18.
I do a lot of door mortice latches etc with it and it handles them well.
I am a travelling carpenter and kitchen fitter that mainly works on domestics and the only thing that niggles me with the CXS18 is the mag holder on the front not being powerful enough as I lose driver bits now and then.

 

[Crispy]

You can still find the installer kit online through certain retailers..... This is the way i went - it will give you most things you may need in one hit.
Look for
Festool 104 Piece CENTROTEC Assembly Kit in T-Loc Case
or
Festool installers kit

View attachment 1

It comes with some normal hex bits and centrotec everything else - deburring/countersink bits, drill bits - including brad points, extensions, pilot holes , centrotec drivers bits etc
Its not a cheap purchase by any means, but it works out a lot cheaper than buying it all individually

 

[Cheese]

I would seriously consider the new CXS 12 if you're just installing hardware. For installing hinges I always use the proper Vix bit so you'll always have a pilot hole and most hinge screws are #8's, #9's or maybe #10. The CXS 12 would have no issues driving 1/4" lag screws.

For power, check this out , it starts at Reply 17.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/cxs12-buying-choice/msg715180/#msg715180

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I get that everything Festool is basically amazing, and I should just buy it

Run away from the PSC420 Carvex. Very, very fast. There are others, but this is a Festool forum and I’d hate to get banned.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm not a PS420 hater, but I don't use a jigsaw for any kind of precision cutting. To me it's not much more than a smaller version of a recip saw. It's a bit on the expensive side for that type of use, but it does what I need.
For most folks, the Trion is a better choice, however it is also significantly heavier, even to the point of shockingly so. D handle vs body-grip is a very personal choice too, again depending on what you use it for (and are comfortable with)

 

[FestitaMakool]

I can say that the CXS18 has gotten far more use than anticipated, also compared to my now sold C18 (Nothing wrong it’s a fantastic machine - especially the motor and the switch between screwdriving and drilling)

It handles very well, and I have gotten very fond of it. It does feel as it has more grunt than the CXS12. The 12V shines in confined spaces and holding in awkward positions!
It handles equally well whether I use my middle finger or index finger on the trigger - a very sound all rounder.

[member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member] - You’re banned..
I’ve the PSB420.. Yes it’s a bit “funny” grip wise.. but the cuts I get with it (Festool blades…) are in another class of anything jigsaw I’ve used before.. Mafell might be better, but the Carvex is still a step above. For us in Europe, there’s the Trion as well, it might be just as good - but it’s only available corded.

 

[ear3]

[member=81747]Sauvecreates[/member] A number of years ago [member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member] did a great review video of the Centrotec standard, which covers all the advantages.  Putting aside the functionality of the bits themselves, the choice of whether to adopt or not the Centrotec standard is kind of microcosm of the overall Festool system approach.  That is, the more you buy in/convert your drilling accessories to Centrotec, the more gains you realize.  The problem is that the bar is pretty high in terms of expense to get a workable range of Centrotec bits, which is why an Installer's set is a good way to go at the beginning.  Snappy tools also makes a bunch of Centrotec bits that are cheaper alternatives or that Festool doesn't offer, like a vix bit.  They also have a quick change adapter so you can continue to use "legacy" bits.

 

[HighlandMarine]

Hi Scott!

As someone who owns both an M12 install driver and a CXS18 for almost a year here’s a few insights to share. First, Centrotec is a far superior system, although we lack availability of the whole line here in the states. The best centrotec kit they offer currently imho is 576804, the 100mm driver bits, and stubby brad point drill bits are some of my favorites, and especially the counter sink bits with depth stop also.

As for usage, the CXS18 is a great drill/driver, but I wouldn’t try driving screws into solid oak without predrilling first. (Compact Xtra Small 18) it’s not an M18 gen4 hammer drill replacement in terms of power. For that, personally I think feathering the screws in with a TID18 would be the more appropriate tool choice.

 

[mrboult]

I’ve owned every Festool drill sold in the last 10 years except the new 18v CXS/TXS.

The first CXS was a wonder of ergonomics and made the world realise that a small, light, precise drill was a dream for the smaller hardware type jobs. BUT the original CXS was so underpowered that it simply couldn’t be the only drill with me. Just too risky that it wouldn’t have the power needed.

The new CXS 12 has more power, and could conceivably be my only drill for an install job. But it still lacks power next to an 18v standard, and it gets quite loud when using all of its torque. For lightweight hardware it doesn’t work hard enough to be that loud.

HOWEVER - if i could only have one drill it would be the T18 with compact batteries. 18v power with 12v weight and ergonomics. The smoothest and most silent 18v drill ever made!

 

[waho6o9]

"CXS 18 , is it powerful enough?"

Yes it is powerful enough.

Concerning the  centrotec: It's nice to have if you have backup  centrotec accessories, but in a production situ using readily

available 1/4" accessories is best.  So having both is optimal to keep production going. 

All the best

 

[thudchkr]

One other item of note for the Centrotec user. Amana makes some very nice drill/countersink combinations available through Toolstoday.com and I would assume others. One of my personal favorites has a ball bearing stop for the countersink and the shank accommodates both Centrotec and the standard 1/4” hex drive. 

Replaceable drill bits and carbide edges on the countersinks.  Pretty much my most used countersinks.

I do have the CXS18 and I take it along when I want extra power with Centrotec precision. That being said, the original CXS drill is used the most, followed by a M12 surge driver. I tried one of the M12 installer kits found too many things about it I didn’t care for, so I sold it and picked up a second CXS kit. And I have a huge amount of cordless Milwaukees in both M18 and M12.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I guess I just don't understand the CXS and power dynamic? The point of XS is literally eXtra Small. 18v power an extra small don't seem to be that much of a thing?
My older CXS is the updated 2.6ah version and it has all I could ever need. In fact, I have the clutch set pretty low, so power is a non-issue.
The only reason I could ever see for changing, is battery compatibility. The older units have unique batteries/chargers, but that is the only cordless Festool item I have.

 

[mino]

I guess I just don't understand the CXS and power dynamic? The point of XS is literally eXtra Small. 18v power an extra small don't seem to be that much of a thing?
My older CXS is the updated 2.6ah version and it has all I could ever need. In fact, I have the clutch set pretty low, so power is a non-issue.
The only reason I could ever see for changing, is battery compatibility. The older units have unique batteries/chargers, but that is the only cordless Festool item I have.

Second this.

From the current range, the CSX 12(small, precise), the TXS 18 (light yet reasonably strong), the T18 (smooth, quiet) and the TPC 18(universal) all make sense.

The CXS18 is a weird one. Not even an optimal gift for a hubby to play around (TXS 18 is better for rare use).
The C18 is (IMO) too heavy for a C grip drill. I had the C12 Li with the super-light 1,5 Ah packs and it was still too heavy for a C-style drill.

 

[mrboult]

From the current range, the CSX 12(small, precise), the TXS 18 (light yet reasonably strong), the T18 (smooth, quiet) and the TPC 18(universal) all make sense.

The CXS18 is a weird one. Not even an optimal gift for a hubby to play around (TXS 18 is better for rare use).
The C18 is (IMO) too heavy for a C grip drill. I had the C12 Li with the super-light 1,5 Ah packs and it was still too heavy for a C-style drill.

Agree 100% couldn’t have said it better.

 

[derekcohen]

From the current range, the CSX 12(small, precise), the TXS 18 (light yet reasonably strong), the T18 (smooth, quiet) and the TPC 18(universal) all make sense.

The CXS18 is a weird one. Not even an optimal gift for a hubby to play around (TXS 18 is better for rare use).
The C18 is (IMO) too heavy for a C grip drill. I had the C12 Li with the super-light 1,5 Ah packs and it was still too heavy for a C-style drill.

Agree 100% couldn’t have said it better.

Well, I will disagree.

I have the 18v PDC 18/4. This is a big mother. Very powerful and my go-to for extreme work.

I have the 10.8 C12. This quite light, powerful enough for light-moderate drilling into hardwood, and sinking screws.

Then the 18v CXS18 came home with me about 3 months ago. Immensely powerful - it replaced a 12v Panasonic, and is waaay more powerful. Small and ergonomic for easy use. I think that this is a perfect all-rounder. My only complaint is that it is a little noisier than expected (you get used to it).

I tend to use smaller batteries (generally 3.0/3.1) as they are light. I keep two for each drill. All use the same charger. The CSX and PDC batteries are inter-changeable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[mino]

Well, I will disagree.

I have the 18v PDC 18/4. This is a big mother. Very powerful and my go-to for extreme work.

I have the 10.8 C12. This quite light, powerful enough for light-moderate drilling into hardwood, and sinking screws.

Then the 18v CXS18 came home with me about 3 months ago. Immensely powerful - it replaced a 12v Panasonic, and is waaay more powerful. Small and ergonomic for easy use. I think that this is a perfect all-rounder. My only complaint is that it is a little noisier than expected (you get used to it).

I tend to use smaller batteries (generally 3.0/3.1) as they are light. I keep two for each drill. All use the same charger. The CSX and PDC batteries are inter-changeable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

You sure you meant the 10.8V C12 (Li) and not the original 10.8V CXS as the older drill?

The C12 Li is a bit heavier to the CXS 18 at about the same power. Your comment just does not compute with me in that context.

 

[derekcohen]

These are the three drills I referred to ...



The 10.8v C12 ...



The C12 is no where near the CXS18 in power!

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[mino]

Thanks. This is interesting indeed.

The C12 was specced at 20/35 Nm (soft/hard) torque. (not sure this holds with the 1.5 Ah 3-cell packs)

The CXS 18 is at 22/40 and the C18 is specced at 27/45 Nm.

While I did not use the CXS 18, what you say would indicate those specs are either very conservative for the CXS 18, were over-stated for the C12 Li, or something else is at play.

From what you mention, the CXS 18 would need to be on par with the C/T 18. I played around with my C 12 Li and the C 18 both with pretty fresh packs, and - to me - the difference in power was felt but nothing special, corresponding to the 30%+ the specs indicated.

Q: Do we have anyone with both the C18 and the CXS 18 on hand ?

Is it possible the different electronics makes the CXS 18 just feel more powerful than the C18 or is it trully on par ?

I can imagine that, given the fairly conservative electronic torque limiter on the C/T 12/15/18 series. But would like to hear from someone actually using both.