CXS or C12

[JeromeM]

The time is comming soon to get either a CXS or C12, not both. I am not very concerned about price.

I am leaning toward the C12 because of the offset and the depth stop chucks  A point I would like advice on.

One of the things I will want to do is drive a lot of small screws, when I am using a lot of piano hinge, for 1 hinge, I have to place 24 or more,  No4x½, No3x½, or No2x½  cross head or slot head screws.

My question is, is the C12 able to drive the very small screws without over driving them and can I set the clutch to such a low setting.

If it can't then my choice is much harder as I assume that the CXS will be able to drive them, so would loose the 2 very useful chucks.

Advice from users please.

 

[semenza]

On the LiOn C12 the clutch setting not only engages the clutch but actually limits the max rpm. So it turns very slowly as well. Giving some real control. On the older NiCd C12 the clutch can be set very low but does not limit the rpm.  Not sure about the clutch on the CXS.

Seth

 

[JeromeM]

On the LiOn C12 the clutch setting not only engages the clutch but actually limits the max rpm. So it turns very slowly as well. Giving some real control. On the older NiCd C12 the clutch can be set very low but does not limit the rpm.  Not sure about the clutch on the CXS.

Seth

That sounds promising Seth. I was hoping the C12 would be capable, have you used it for tiny screws?

 

[semenza]

No, but I think it would work very well.

Seth

 

[JeromeM]

Thanks. I hope that some others will comment.

I won't be able to get it until my next Thailand trip in January so there is time.

 

[MrToolJunkie]

I have a C12 and it is great. Very light-weight and powerful. It has been discontinued in N. America - maybe it is still available elsewhere. It is a great drill.

 

[JeromeM]

It is still listed in the UK and on the German web sites so I have hope

 

[mrboult]

I own the CXS and once used a friends C12 side by side for a day.  In my opinion the only advantage of the C12 is that the batteries and charger will work with the rest of the Festool cordless range.

The C12 is nowhere near the the CXS in terms of handling. The CXS is soooo much smaller and comfortable to use. Also the power of the C12 is barely better than the CXS (in my opinion).  The eccentric chuck on the C12 is not much better than the CXS because the CXS is so slim anyway.  And as for the depth stop chuck . . . the depth stop chuck that came along with the PD, PDC, DRC Drills (from the protool range) will fit on the CXS fine (I have one, so can confirm this).

Just my opinion. . . .

 

[Tinker]

I have several drills, not all Festoys.  I have the CDX and it is ALWAYS my first choice.  It is so light and easy to handle first.  Second, it has seemingly more power to weight than any drill I have tried except for some of the small impact drills I have tried.  For my work, I don't really need an impact. 

The only problem i have with the CDX is that it gives me no warning before the battery dies.  My old CD 12 will slowly die so I know before the battery is dead.  The CDX just stops.  The first time it happened, i thought something had gone wrong with the motor.  The LED still worked fine.  I finally changed batteries and it was fine.  It does take a long time for the battery to die.  And it charges very quickly. 

My shop is basically unheated. My older drills will go dead very quickly.  The CDX just seems to last forever, even tho it is kept in a cold room. I only need to change batteries a couple of times during winter in the cold environment (between 35º to 55º or so.  there is some heat from the furnace, but the heat is all directed to main floor above.  It never gets much above 60º, even in the summer.) 

Tinker

 

[Stone Message]

The time is comming soon to get either a CXS or C12, not both. I am not very concerned about price.

I am leaning toward the C12 because of the offset and the depth stop chucks  A point I would like advice on.

One of the things I will want to do is drive a lot of small screws, when I am using a lot of piano hinge, for 1 hinge, I have to place 24 or more,  No4x½, No3x½, or No2x½  cross head or slot head screws.

My question is, is the C12 able to drive the very small screws without over driving them and can I set the clutch to such a low setting.

If it can't then my choice is much harder as I assume that the CXS will be able to drive them, so would loose the 2 very useful chucks.

Advice from users please.

I make a lot of small boxes and use very small hinges. I admire all of the Festool range of drill-drivers for their precise speed control through the trigger but when you are putting in really small screws you do need to have as light a driver as possible. I have been using a tiny Bosch for several years but it is little better than a toy. I cannot do very many screws by hand as my wrists are not up to it and so I have finally bitten the bullet and have a CXS on order.

I always have a play with the CXS when I go to shows and if a dealer has a demo display model I cannot resist picking it up. I am certain that it is the right tool for me. I have quite a few videos in the pipeline at the moment but will do the CXS video in time to help people decide whether to ask Father Christmas or one.

Peter

 

[AlexThePalex]

The C12 will handle those small screws very well. You won't believe how easy it is to control the speed of Festool's modern drills until you've tried it yourself. Especially at the lower speeds you have complete control. The clutch setting will also allow you to set it at a very low torque so it can stop at the slightest touch.

That said, when you drive a lot of small screws I agree with others it is much more comfortable to have a drill as small as the CXS. It just fits the hand better, easier to handle and makes your work better accessible when doing small stuff.

The offset chuck (or eccentric chuck as it's called officially) is nice and I use it often with my T15, but if you plan to use it with your piano hinges and small screws,  I don't think it's the best solution. The eccentric chuck is pretty heavy and when you fix it to a drill it will make the drill very unbalanced, wanting to tip forward all the time. You really feel it when you use this chuck and makes the drill seem twice as heavy. Something to keep in mind when you work with very small screws.

With the CXS you don't need the eccentric chuck because it is very thin at the tip anyway so you'll be able to reach into corners easily. And you can stil use the depth stop chuck with it

My advice is, when you go to a dealer, bring some small screws and try both drills to see which suits you best.

 

[JeromeM]

The C12 will handle those small screws very well. You won't believe how easy it is to control the speed of Festool's modern drills until you've tried it yourself. Especially at the lower speeds you have complete control. The clutch setting will also allow you to set it at a very low torque so it can stop at the slightest touch.

That said, when you drive a lot of small screws I agree with others it is much more comfortable to have a drill as small as the CXS. It just fits the hand better, easier to handle and makes your work better accessible.

The offset chuck (or eccentric chuck as it's called officically) is nice and I use it often with my T15, but if you plan to use it with your piano hinges and small screws,  I don't think it's the best solution. The eccentric chuck is pretty heavy and when you fix it to a drill it will make the drill very unbalanced, wanting to tip forward all the time. You really feel it when you use this chuck and makes the drill seem twice as heavy. Something to keep in mind when you work with very small screws.

With the CXS you don't need the eccentric chuck because it is very thin at the tip anyway so you'll be able to reach into corners easily. And you can stil use the depth stop chuck with it

My advice is, when you go to a dealer, bring some small screws and try both drills to see which suits you best.

Thanks Alex would that I could go to a dealer to try them. The problem is that in Japan there is nobody and in Thailand there is only 1 in the whole country and they are the main agent. There is no guarantee that they will have both and if they have either they will probably not have one that I can buy, it will be order only from Germany with a 30 day lead time [scared]

I will probably not be using any of the special chucks when using the tiny screws. So the main point is, and I think you've answered the question, will the C12 do that job well.

I'm not getting a new toy tool just to drive tiny screws, but need the tool to be able to drive them well, as well as doing the things that AFIK I think the C12 does better than the CXS.

There has to be a good reason for the big difference in price, I hope,

 

[Birdhunter]

I have both the CXS and an older C12 as well as the T18 and TI15.

For small screws, I far prefer the CXS. It has a much better feel and balance for me than any of the others.

If I'm building a small box where I need to be careful about breaking off the screw or stripping it by applying too much pressure, I'll run in almost all the way in with the CXS and then hand tighten it to the torque I need.

The T18 is a recent acquisition whereas the C12 is one of the first Festools I bought. More and more, I'm picking up the T18 and leaving the C12 in the Sustainer.

The TI15 gets to drive lag bolts and that's about all I find to use it for.

 

[JeromeM]

Thanks all for the information.

Still listening and welcome more points of view.

 

[RKA]

The C series drills can be adjusted to deliver a light touch and the trigger control is far better than the CXS. But when you're running two dozen screws at a time, sometimes the lighter weight of the CXS wins. There is no fatigue running screws in any direction. For hinge and hardware installation I prefer the CXS for the weight alone.  Otherwise I love the C drills!  So maybe the answer is both?  [tongue]

 

[iamnothim]

I was in the same boat but I was only going to purchase one drill.  Since I own a Milwaukee driver I choose the CXS.  It should arrive tomorrow.  Cost did enter the equation but I still think it is more purposeful, for me, than a "C" drill.

On top of all the great FOG posts, Paul Marcel, halfinchshy blog, said it's the only product he's reviewed where he said "go buy one".  I enjoy Pauls blog a lot.

 

[Sparktrician]

I bought the C12 first and have loved it.  Then I bought the CXS and love it, too.  The CXS really shines when working in tight places where the tool needs to be held horizontally, like mounting drawer glides and the like.  Its lighter weight makes its use so much easier.  For a lot of serious drilling, I grab the C12, but for driving cabinet screws, it's the CXS every time. 

 

[PreferrablyWood]

Nice thread, I'm interested in a drill that is lighter than PDC which I bought especielly to handle bigger holes for outdoor furniture, framing with bigger screws, the odd drilling in stone and mortar, plus the batteries compatability with my Carvex played a role. I'd be interested to pick up a CXS or the C12 too, but seeing as it seems there's quite alot of overlap between the abilities of the C12 and the PDC 18/4, I'll likely also end up getting the CXS...

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I have two of the CXS and two of the C12. They are both excellent machines.
For balance without the drill chuck the C12 is awesome, not so much with the chuck attached on the C12 - but in practical use it works fine.

I find that I reach for the CXS more often and for every task within its limitations I find it a joy to use and it has a good belt clip. I didn't fancy the CXS all that much at first and I thought it a bit underpowered but now I use it for a lot of tasks when it comes to assembly work and minute details.

If I could only have one of them I would keep the CXS, not because it is better - it is just that special kind of small drill that you don't readily find anywhere else and the C12 is a great drill but does have competition that does some things better.