Dealers selling pre-converted tools?

[DeformedTree]

I touched on this on my question about metric tools returning, but I wanted to ask this as a stand alone question to dealers.

Since Festool won't currently sell tools with proper metric scales in North America, and thinks it is acceptable to require buyers to send brand new tools in for repair and pay for it (and presumably have to register along the way), maybe there is a stop gap solution.

Have any dealers considered working with Festool to have batches of tools shipped to them pre-converted? This may not be a practical option for smaller shops, but for those who get tools in decent size batches, if they are being shipped from Festool USA to you, have you considered having Festool USA pre-convert some of them before shipping them out?  Then offering these up at regular price.  This saves shipping and hassle and reduces the general anger of the situation.  Maybe as part of this report back to Festool on how they sell.

There certainly is room for 1 or 2 shops to do this.  It would also make for a quick way to show Festool that thinking all North Americans are inch only is a awful stereotype.  I'm sure Festool tool owners who have a lot of pre-inch tools would like a straightforward path to continue with metric only tools verses shipping tools back and forth, or just giving up on Festool in anger.

 

[denovo]

Festool would still be incurring the cost of converting the tools after they have been shipping from Germany.  Therefore expecting them to sell them for the same price as non-converted tools would be unrealistic.  Would dealers be able to sell a new metric TS-55 for $100 over the current retail price is probably something they wouldn't be willing to risk.

 

[peter halle]

I doubt you will find any dealers willing to do this whereas it would cost them out of pocket.

While the whole metric vs imperial debate /situation seems to be important to some - and I was one of those initially, I found that myself , who has all metric versions, rarely use the scale on the tools (TS-55, OF 1400).  I use the Fastfix to set my depth for plywood and adjust by eye the other saw cuts depth-wise.  For routing I adjust by eye or other means.

Peter

 

[DeformedTree]

I doubt you will find any dealers willing to do this whereas it would cost them out of pocket.

While the whole metric vs imperial debate /situation seems to be important to some - and I was one of those initially, I found that myself , who has all metric versions, rarely use the scale on the tools (TS-55, OF 1400).  I use the Fastfix to set my depth for plywood and adjust by eye the other saw cuts depth-wise.  For routing I adjust by eye or other means.

Peter

While I'm sure most folks most the time are not relying on them, it's nice to have them there, but it's also about not seeing inches on a tool. If Festool just removed all markings on the tools, that would have probably been fine. Picking up a tool and having the manufacture insulting you every time you see and and knowing you paid for it is not desirable situation.  Just like anything else, if it has inches on it, don't buy it.  But in the case of power tools there are not many options and this was one of the things they had going for them.  There is still plenty to like with what Festool has, this is just wrong on many levels.  There is really one one other option in the US right now, and that company sells a nice saw, but really nothing else.

If the dealers charged extra for them, that would be ok, it still saves folks a lot of hassle.  Of course in the end if Festool just allowed folks to special order the tools that would fix it too.

I would be really curious if a Dealer would go for this.  I doubt the first dealer to try would have an issue moving the inventory.  The biggest issue is the natural one that they are selling a tool that says it's one thing but is now something else and has been repaired before even being sold.  But under the circumstances I think most folks would understand.

Did Festool when making this change explicitly tell dealers they would not support such an initiative?

 

[sancho57]

Festool would still be incurring the cost of converting the tools after they have been shipping from Germany.  Therefore expecting them to sell them for the same price as non-converted tools would be unrealistic.  Would dealers be able to sell a new metric TS-55 for $100 over the current retail price is probably something they wouldn't be willing to risk.

You can order them from directly from Europe . Axminster ships to the USA
https://www.axminster.co.uk

Here’s a 3rd party not to bad pricing
https://www.parcelmonkey.com/quick-shipping-calculator/results

 

[DeformedTree]

You can order them from directly from Europe .

Correct and something I have considered (I'm new to trying to find how/where to buy things outside of the US).  It's a solution, but sadly since Festool doesn't sell tools direct in the US, it means a US based dealer is loosing a sale because of something Festool did.  I'd much prefer reserve such paths for NAINA type stuff.  Also it means buying a US cord separately and is probably even harder to resell used in the US as now it's not even a North American PN.

 

[peter halle]

You can order them from directly from Europe .

Correct and something I have considered (I'm new to trying to find how/where to buy things outside of the US).  It's a solution, but sadly since Festool doesn't sell tools direct in the US, it means a US based dealer is loosing a sale because of something Festool did.  I'd much prefer reserve such paths for NAINA type stuff.  Also it means buying a US cord separately and is probably even harder to resell used in the US as now it's not even a North American PN.

...And there won't be warranty coverage.

 

[DeformedTree]

...And there won't be warranty coverage.

Correct, but in the end

1) Looking at their warranty there is any number of reason they could decide not to honor the warranty even if US bought.

2) Tools shouldn't be failing in the first place, if it dies, it's going to be much more unlikely I buy another one, under warranty or not.  I own many power tools, never have I did a warranty claim on any of them. I've only broke 1 power tool, and that tool ~5 years of hard abuse and the death blow was my fault doing something with it I shouldn't have (impact drivers are not drills )

3) If a tool had an issue, what matters isn't the warranty, but that I can get the part and repair it myself.

4) I'm pretty sure Festool would void my warranty anyways since I maintain my tools, which means they get regular heavy tear downs, cleaning, inspect if anything is suspect, etc.  Reading their warranty rules, it looks like I'd be foul of them from the get go. Of course, any lawyer would hit them up with Magnuson Moss warranty act  violations if they wanted to go that route.

5) If something breaks, I'm going to figure out what went wrong and fix it, which very well could mean modifications or replacing parts with better components.

Warrenties are nice and all, but they don't really matter, and for most people once the sale is over they forget about the warranty anyways, they are sales gimmicks, there is a reason high quality stuff generally has almost no warranty and junk offers extreme warranties (lifetime warranty all new Chryslers a few years back).    Being able to buy replacement parts if needed, and the tools being of serviceable designs are far more important than loss of a warrenty.

 

[sancho57]

When I was in the UK I had a issue with my RO150. It was out of warranty anyway, so i just sent it in to Festool Service and they repaired it. Sure I had to pay for the repair. But it wasnt that much considering the cost of a new one.

As I said once before on a simular thread, when we were only getting metric tools there were a lot of complaints from NA why can't we get Imperial tools. Now we get imperial tools and folks are complaining why cant we get metric ones.

To me it doesnt matter. Just measure mark and cut.

No biggie

 

[grbmds]

[member=68063]DeformedTree[/member] There may be a number of reasons listed in the warranty for not covering repairs, but I personally haven't ever had a warranty repair not covered. I suspect abuse is probably the main reason a repair would be excluded from the warranty. I will admit that my experience with warranty coverage has been limited because I have had very few problems  with the tools within or outside the warranty period.

I also kind of resented the turn-around by Festool after they pushed their metric tools in the US. However, Peter is right when he says that the scales aren't all that important. I may use them a bit more on the Dominos since the Domino tenons are metric. With most tools, just use some kind of gauge to suit the particular work; either made myself, the Dominos themselves, or a gauge I own. Using an actual piece of wood from the project to gauge the depth is more accurate. The only time I use the gauge on the TS55 is when I'm cutting on the MFT and want to be close to the thickness of the wood so I make a through cut without cutting through the table.

Just my opinion but, my point is, getting a metric gauge on the tool is certainly not worth losing the warranty.

 

[Corwin]

It's an Imperial scale where there had been a metric scale. No ethics were injured during the switch.  [dead horse] [dead horse] [dead horse]

 

[Coen]

I can't believe Festool let this rot for so long.  [eek]

Their whole system is based around ease of use... except for NA customers apparently who have to put up with some medieval measurement system!?  [huh]

All in all that lock of that ridiculous system on their land is costing the Americans... year by year. Note that many college textbooks are sold in a US version with imperial units (+$$$$) and a cheaper "international edition [not for sale in the US!]".

Selling them European tools with metric scale, then switching to imperial... I consider it an act of cruelty.

I doubt you will find any dealers willing to do this whereas it would cost them out of pocket.

While the whole metric vs imperial debate /situation seems to be important to some - and I was one of those initially, I found that myself , who has all metric versions, rarely use the scale on the tools (TS-55, OF 1400).  I use the Fastfix to set my depth for plywood and adjust by eye the other saw cuts depth-wise.  For routing I adjust by eye or other means.

Peter

If it's so non-important... why does Festool bother to stick on a different -wrong- scale by default for the Americans? Let those that insist on sticking to a dying standard pay additional $ for their nonsense.

Imperial is completely ridiculous, especially since they all pegged it to metric anyway. Inch; fixed at 25.4mm. The English have now 100 Pence in the pound, no longer 240. Etc. So all it really boils down to is an additional completely useless layer complicating everyday life  [huh]. Just think about how many hours are wasted by people all around the world converting to that death standard and the amount of errors that inherently results in. Black and Decker couldn't even get it's conversion table right on it's European workmate...

Here, let me throw in a few things where that useless layer turned out to be rather costly;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
(Boeing 767 loaded with X lbs of fuel instead of kg... resulting in a a dangerous emergency glide landing)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter
("software supplied by Lockheed Martin produced results in a United States customary unit, contrary to its Software Interface Specification")

The steam locomotive was turned over to the museum... because we found better ways that were cheaper, faster, cleaner, safer. The imperial system belongs there too, in a display case, for children to make fun of the silly things grandpa had to deal with.

While we're at it; "Daylight Saving Time" belongs there too, but that's not something Festool is holding back.  [big grin]

Just put on the metric scale by default and include a $0.05 sticker for those that fancy a medieval system. Sticking it off by a few 1/64th of an inch fits perfectly with medieval accuracy and completes that ecosystem nicely. Or tape it over the metric scale as part of some protection foil.. "remove before use".

Now, the good thing; there is no such thing as imperial Torx  [laughing]

You can order them from directly from Europe .

Correct and something I have considered (I'm new to trying to find how/where to buy things outside of the US).  It's a solution, but sadly since Festool doesn't sell tools direct in the US, it means a US based dealer is loosing a sale because of something Festool did.  I'd much prefer reserve such paths for NAINA type stuff.  Also it means buying a US cord separately and is probably even harder to resell used in the US as now it's not even a North American PN.

Just send a whole bunch of dealers an email and ask them for metric scale. If enough people do that Festool will get the message.

If you have a valid complaint and repeat it often enough, sometimes even big organizations will listen.

 

[Coen]

Interesting. The university textbook for mechanics (Hibbeler, from Pearson) used here (the SI version) is bloated with appearances of imperial units, where they seem to have translated only half an example.

One level lower they use an even more expensive Dutch language version of the same... where Pearson stacked the translation errors on top of that  [blink]

 

[Cheese]

I have no idea what quarts/pints etc are and how they all roll up into gallons.  I don't understand tablespoons/teaspoons etc either.

Actually liquid measures are really very easy.
1 pinch = 1/8 tsp
1 dash = 1/4 tsp
1 tsp = 1/3 Tbl
3 tsp = 1 Tbl = 1/2 oz =  1/16 cup
6 tsp = 2 Tbl = 1 oz = 1/8 cup
2 tsp + 2 Tbl = 1 1/3 oz = 1/6 cup
12 tsp = 4 Tbl = 2 oz = 1/4 cup
1 tsp + 5 Tbl = 2 2/3 oz = 1/3 cup
24 tsp = 8 Tbl = 4 oz =1/2 cup

Quarts, pints and gallons are equally straightforward.  [cool]

 

[Cheese]

Which is why if we converted all the roads/cars tomorrow, almost everyone would go about things just fine.

You really think so...I’d beg to differ. If it was really that easy...it’d already be done.

 

[semenza]

Political and nationalistic comments have been removed from this topic.

Please keep it that way.

Seth

 

[Coen]

Like any place, not all imperial units will go away.  People are still going to call them 2x4's . It's not like the units match as is. People will still call sheets 4x8 even when they aren't.  What matters though is when you are using them, they are what they are.

We know those sheets as 1,22 x 2,44 [m] over here.

 

[semenza]

A store near me was listing the finish plywood in the mm thicknesses (which was nice to see), but gave the other length and width in inches and had a note proclaiming they extra material to be cut off material incase it gets damaged  ;D .  Which sure, it's good to have extra for that, but that wasn't why it wasn't 4x8.  Some time later they removed the mm markings and put fraction of inches back up,  material was the same.

  Not sure about the particular plywood that you encountered. But there is such a thing as over sized plywood 1/2" each way (48 1/2" x 96 1/2") And it certainly seems to be for the reason of being able to cut fresh, clean, square edges and still maintain the 48" x 96" final. I order it intentionally from my supplier. Also the factory edge on these sheets is usually not in good shape. Not from being banged around but because some of the plies are not even fully adhered along the edge and voids are visible. Now it could be that the size is something exact in mm, but the factory is making no attempt to produce good edges on these sheets.

Seth

 

[yetihunter]

Maybe we should do away with the quarter notes and tap our feet to a base ten metronome?  [smile]

 

[grbmds]

Seems like this post has gotten off-topic. It appears the OP's original question and point was dealt with in the first few posts.