Deciding on the Domino

[#Tee]

theres trade offs to both, i had the 500 and i like its lighter weight but i know its limited from doing doors and tables. the 700 is more versatile and given its heavier weight makes it more stable, you can literally lay it face down and slowly push without worrying about it move. i returned the 500 and will be going for the 700 next.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I think ergonomics are improved on the DF700. I do not own it and haven't used it but I did try it for size.

I have had the DF500 almost since it got out on the market and I have plunged probably thousands of Dominos with it by now  [eek] but it was not until earlier this year that I got around to fitting a DF700 style grip to the DF500.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-wish-list/next-gen-domino-500-wish-list/msg413557/#msg413557

With the grip I find the DF500 has improved. I am sure Festool could provide a more elegant solution but for me it has worked flawlessly since I modified it. Overall the Domino DF500 is a machine I would not want to be without and it is one of those stand out tools in the Festool line up.

My dealership bonus this year will actually put me in the ballpark of getting a DF700  for free but I am still a bit hesitant, I rarely find the need for anything larger sized tenons than what the DF500 can provide. But, surely I could probably come up with more stuff if I got it but I am still perfectly happy with the DF500 and adding a DF700 would mean to much of an overlap - for me - and I have a hard time seeing myself without the DF500.

Oh, and those larger tenons for the DF700 are really expensive.

 

[Gixxerjoe04]

I'm thinking with the XL, will use it at first a handful of times at most but will find uses for the big stuff eventually.  Of course, once I build a table to two for us and family, who knows could start selling big stuff like that since I do sell other stuff I make, just never know.  Hoping I get a lot of gift cards to woodcraft for my bday next week so the sting wont be so bad when I buy one. 

 

[jacko9]

I'm thinking with the XL, will use it at first a handful of times at most but will find uses for the big stuff eventually.  Of course, once I build a table to two for us and family, who knows could start selling big stuff like that since I do sell other stuff I make, just never know.  Hoping I get a lot of gift cards to woodcraft for my bday next week so the sting wont be so bad when I buy one.

Remember that Seneca Woodworking sells all you need to allow your XL700 to cut 5mm and 6mm joints.

http://www.senecawoodworking.com

Jack

 

[neeleman]

I first owned the DF 500 for a few years and used it a lot until it was recently lost in a workplace fire.
Then I bought a DF 700 instead with the Seneca adapter to use the Ø4-5 and 6 mm cutters with it.
Because I thought I could now use it for everything from furniture to window frames and doors.
Only when I used it this week I realized that the minimal distance from both sides of the fences were 15 mm instead of the 10 mm for the DF 500.
And that's a bummer because when using it for 3/4" sheets the 10 mm is (much) better suited.
I never use the centre of the sheet thickness because the sheets are not all of even thickness.
I nearly always use 10 mm also because the bottom fence distance is fixed to 10 mm.
Maybe I'll also buy the DF 500 in the future for that reason?

Correction:
I was wrong about the top fence, it's 10 mm just like the DF 500.

 

[Holmz]

The main question is biscuits, dominos or dowels.
Are you certain on that part?

 

[Gixxerjoe04]

Neeleman, doesn't the shim Seneca makes for the xl, put it where the top fence can be that low with it on?

 

[Brice Burrell]

The main question is biscuits, dominos or dowels.
Are you certain on that part?

If he's looking to buy a Domino I assume he's already passed that.

 

[Holmz]

The main question is biscuits, dominos or dowels.
Are you certain on that part?

If he's looking to buy a Domino I assume he's already passed that.

I ask from experience... personal experience.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Since I use the DF500 a lot with 4mm cutter and Dominos (more than I thought I would) I feel the DF700 would be really awkward in comparion for that aspect. Within the DF500 domino range I find it more than adequate and can't see myself replacing the DF500 with the DF700 though I sure wish I could justify both as there will always come a project or two where the DF700 will be just the ticket.

I was contemplating the Mafell DD40 (double tap of dowels) but once I added up the cost of the bits and pieces I would "need" I was waaaay past a DF700 in cost! I scrapped that idea that very instant. I would be happy to pick up a used DD40 down the line though.

 

[Gixxerjoe04]

The main question is biscuits, dominos or dowels.
Are you certain on that part?

If he's looking to buy a Domino I assume he's already passed that.

I ask from experience... personal experience.

Wasn't sure exactly what you were referring to, was close to wasting money on a biscuit joiner before fully deciding on getting a domino, glad I didn't.  If they just made the 500 be able to plunge deeper, I'd be a happy camper.  My wife is already telling her friends how I'm going to make her a table soon and of course some are already wanting one too.  Depending on if my wife I wanting a bench instead of buying or trying to build chairs, the XL would def be safer I would think.  I keep second guessing myself which doesn't help the buying process haha.

 

[jacko9]

The main question is biscuits, dominos or dowels.
Are you certain on that part?

If he's looking to buy a Domino I assume he's already passed that.

I ask from experience... personal experience.

Wasn't sure exactly what you were referring to, was close to wasting money on a biscuit joiner before fully deciding on getting a domino, glad I didn't.  If they just made the 500 be able to plunge deeper, I'd be a happy camper.  My wife is already telling her friends how I'm going to make her a table soon and of course some are already wanting one too.  Depending on if my wife I wanting a bench instead of buying or trying to build chairs, the XL would def be safer I would think.  I keep second guessing myself which doesn't help the buying process haha.

Buy the XL700 then you have the plunge depth you want and Seneca even sells longer 5mm and 6mm cutters to use with the XL700.

Jack

 

[Holmz]

The main question is biscuits, dominos or dowels.
Are you certain on that part?

If he's looking to buy a Domino I assume he's already passed that.

I ask from experience... personal experience.

Wasn't sure exactly what you were referring to, was close to wasting money on a biscuit joiner before fully deciding on getting a domino, glad I didn't.  If they just made the 500 be able to plunge deeper, I'd be a happy camper.  My wife is already telling her friends how I'm going to make her a table soon and of course some are already wanting one too.  Depending on if my wife I wanting a bench instead of buying or trying to build chairs, the XL would def be safer I would think.  I keep second guessing myself which doesn't help the buying process haha.

You can hardly go wrong either way... (500, 700, dowelers or biscuits).
All your wife's friends are surely asking the husbands why they do not build them benches. I am sure those fellow are happy.  :

Jacko9 is referring to this stuff:
http://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/rts-500-cutter-adapter-for-festool-df700
http://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/5mm-cutter-for-domino-xl

It may have been Jacko9 previous posts that lead me to getting the XL700 and the Seneca gear...
However, Festool recommends buying both a 500 and a 700.

Knowing what you want and now being confused is pretty much where I am at. I have known about the Domino for ~7 years, but I now know that there are other options that are better for some types of materials (like sheet goods).

You will need to get some glue and clamps soon. The Bessey clamps are nice.
Then you need to get the bench smooth/flat.

 

[jacko9]

While Holmz mentions Festool recommending purchasing both Domino Joiners (I have both machines) I would highly recommend the XL700 with the additional accessories from Seneca like I mentioned above.

I agree Bessey makes great clamps and the ones I find most useful are the K-Body Revo clamps and while they are expensive they are excellent.

For flattening a glued up top a hand plane will work fine and two of the best manufactures right now are Lie-Nielsen and Veritas;

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/nodes/4171/standard-bench-planes

http://www.veritastools.com/Products/ProductList.aspx?cat=44

You could flatten a top with a Jack plane either the #5 or #5 1/2 which will allow you to do smoothing work as well or the longer Fore Plane or Jointer Plane.

I have the Smooth Plane, the Rabbet Jack Plane and the #7 Jointer Plane as well as a few block planes and specialty planes.

Jack

 

[Gixxerjoe04]

I do need to invest in some better clamps, what makes me sick is seeing guys one youtube with enough of the nice bessey clamps to buy like every festool haha.  I just have pipe clamps but they aren't going to be long enough, thought about buying just bigger pipes since they're cheaper.  Hoping woodcraft will have some good black friday deals, last year I want to say the bessey clamps were like 50% off I think, it was some crazy cheap price and I didn't go shopping.  Def will if they have a deal like that this year.  I have few hand planes, a block plane, 4.5 and a 5 I believe, only use the block plane occasionally.  I finally bought a sharpening stone and learned to sharpen them recently so they will get more use.  As for gluing up the top, at the sale the other day I picked up freuds glue line blade for my table saw, curious to see how that works out, of course if it doesn't I can always use my 8" jointer.  I've only been woodworking for 2 years but my garage/shop is about full, have been upgrading my tools from the crappy second hand ones I bought when I started.  I sell at craft shows and online but just smaller stuff, my last craft show went really which is why I'm doing some upgrades.  Ready to take on bigger projects.

 

[grbmds]

Having used the 500 for a year plus, and having handled the 700 in the store, I personally would find the 700 somewhat unwieldy for smaller projects. It is true that I have not yet made anything that would likely require larger Dominos, but I'd say, regardless of the extra cost, that buying both would be the ideal. I just think that the 700 really would be more difficult for me to use on smaller parts. The 500, on the other hand, is just the right weight and is easy to work with on smaller pieces. For me, it's a matter of what projects I undertake most often and I'm not woodworking for a living. Just my perspective.

 

[jacko9]

Having used the 500 for a year plus, and having handled the 700 in the store, I personally would find the 700 somewhat unwieldy for smaller projects. It is true that I have not yet made anything that would likely require larger Dominos, but I'd say, regardless of the extra cost, that buying both would be the ideal. I just think that the 700 really would be more difficult for me to use on smaller parts. The 500, on the other hand, is just the right weight and is easy to work with on smaller pieces. For me, it's a matter of what projects I undertake most often and I'm not woodworking for a living. Just my perspective.

Look, I'm almost 71 years old and I have both Domino machines and while I was an office worker for my entire career before I retired 10 years ago, the XL700 is not "unwieldy for me" and I'm an average guy (not linebacker or such).  Now, because of habit and sometimes the nature of small projects I use my DF500 more often but, IF I could only buy one machine I would recommend the XL700 and I emphasize the "If I could only have one".

Jack

 

[grbmds]

Having used the 500 for a year plus, and having handled the 700 in the store, I personally would find the 700 somewhat unwieldy for smaller projects. It is true that I have not yet made anything that would likely require larger Dominos, but I'd say, regardless of the extra cost, that buying both would be the ideal. I just think that the 700 really would be more difficult for me to use on smaller parts. The 500, on the other hand, is just the right weight and is easy to work with on smaller pieces. For me, it's a matter of what projects I undertake most often and I'm not woodworking for a living. Just my perspective.

Look, I'm almost 71 years old and I have both Domino machines and while I was an office worker for my entire career before I retired 10 years ago, the XL700 is not "unwieldy for me" and I'm an average guy (not linebacker or such).  Now, because of habit and sometimes the nature of small projects I use my DF500 more often but, IF I could only buy one machine I would recommend the XL700 and I emphasize the "If I could only have one".

Jack

I always find that these answers cover a broad spectrum. That's because there is no one right answer to the question of which tool or tools work best for each of us. Your point is my point. I wouldn't want to just do with  the 500 or just the 700 alone if I was making the whole range of projects from small to very large. I'd want both. I believe each tool has its best use. Could I use the 700 for everything. I'm sure I could and most likely it would work. For me, and I stress just for me, I feel the best use of the Domino 500 is for small to medium size projects that usually have smaller components and the best use of the 700 is for the much larger projects. This is true for me with the TS55 and TS75. I tried both and, while I could use the 75 and it would give me more capacity for those instances when I need it, the 55 is a much more usable saw for my woodworking work. Again, though, that' me.

 

[Holmz]

Not having both, and wanting to do both types of work, I got the 700.
It does seem large, but it does 16-mm wood just fine. I like the weight, and the handle, as it seems like it helps me to focus on jamming hard into the piece. The 500 should hold just fine jammed in too...

In the earlier post he mentioned "If the 500 would go deeper he would be happy", which again can be done with the Seneca gear.

Alternatively I could argue that the shallower joint may be more than strong enough, and it is a waste of time to put in a longer domino. )I could be wrong), but the joints seen pretty strong... and that was before they were glued and clamped up.

If one or the other was stupid idea, then it would be easier to make a decision.
Either one should work fine.

 

[Gixxerjoe04]

I'm leaning towards the 700 now, with the accessories, just seems like the best bet unless the guy at woodcraft talks me out of it, but doubt that will happen haha.  Maybe I'll start selling more stuff and be able to justify getting the 500 down the road, who knows.  Since I'll probably get going with the more expensive one, will probably wait on the dust extractor and just use my shop vac for now.