Did you ever wonder....?

[Rockne]

There's a mid-level rifle scope maker that is renowned for their customer serivice.  There are a lot (even for the Internet) of people with really great reviews of this company's customer service.  So many, in fact, that it very well may have backfired (no pun intended) on them.  See, what people are figuring out is that maybe, just maybe, these scopes aren't all that well made if everyone and their mother has a great review of their customer service.  More and more people seem to have realized that, and many are moving up,the rung to companies like U.S. Optics, Schmidt and Bender, Premiere, and the like. 

This brings me to my experience this weekend.  Long having been frustrated with the smallish size of my MFT, I decided to order a second (with connectors, etc.).  The first time I ordered an MFT, it came damaged (dent in the aluminum profile).  So, I packed up the thing (easier said than done), called my vendor of choice, they sent out another (poor UPS guy), and the second one was fine (well. It actually wasn't....the rear mount for the rail was bent way out, but Festool quickly shipped another).  That was about two years ago, I think.  Well, guess what.  The MFT I took delivery of Friday is also damaged with a dented profile.  But, you know what?  I'm not feeling inclined to pack it back up (the styrofoam was fractured in delivery, so it would be especially difficult) this time.  There is apparently something wrong with the way festool packs these things up for shipping.  For a darn-near $700 bunch of aluminum and wood, you'd think they might have gotten a handle on this.

So far this month, my TS-55 started throwing lube and I've gotten a dented table.  The saw had a bad blade from the get-go, and Festool doesn't warranty the blades (which, I understand, but for me, knowing the "uber-Kleine" (very limited) use that I put my saw through, it's nothing short of a rip off having to buy another blade at $80-100.00. 

But what rally frustrates me is the time.  It's a complete pain (for me) to take time in between my meetings to call Festool, to say nothing of packing stuff up to send back, then placing another order, and then after a couple of days, go back and make sure that I wasn't double charged (because that's happened more than once, too). 

The problem starts with Festool.  I have a lot of Festool stuff. Much more than someone who has as little time to use the stuff as I do should. But that's why I have Festool, because I know that with my couple of hours a month (if that) that I can get to work on a project, that that time is going to be much more productive with Festool.  I suspect I'm preaching to the choir in that regard.  But, in the same vein, IT IS UNACCEPTABLE to expect me to have to fix Festool's mistakes.  Many of us have a direct time-money association, (only 25 years til retirement!), so in my mind, if Festool costs me time (thus eliminating the "F"), shouldn't they compensate me in some manner?

Speaking of "F".....

 

[Kev]

Track saw issues aside, I hear a lot about people in the US buying online and a heck of a lot about stuff being damaged. Not just Festool stuff.

I think the approach should be to sack the lazy clumsy pigs that don't deserve a job that constantly mistreat freight and give their jobs to people that appreciate the work.

Freight companies don't care because damaged goods simply mean MORE FREIGHT !!!

I buy the majority of my stuff through bricks and mortar retail, so I rarely suffer the issues you speak of.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I am always amazed about the shipping stories I hear comming from America, they're simply unheard of here. And then you see this video of the delivery guy just throwing the flatscreen TV over the fence......

You're entitled to receive a product in perfect working order from the seller. As far as compensation for your time, unless your local law specifically states differently, you're not entitled to that. That's the risk of ordering online.

 

[bobfog]

I am always amazed about the shipping stories I hear comming from America, they're simply unheard of here. And then you see this video of the delivery guy just throwing the flatscreen TV over the fence......

You're entitled to receive a product in perfect working order from the seller. As far as compensation for your time, unless your local law specifically states differently, you're not entitled to that. That's the risk of ordering online.

Don't know what it's like in The Netherlands, but in the UK (and I suspect US) most delivery drivers hate their jobs. Most are self employed contractors and don't get enough work to make a comfortable wage and when they do get enough work they're given unrealistic routes to cover in too short a time; resulting in an ANASFWG (and not a single f... was given) attitude.

 

[sancho57]

Sounds like you bought from Amazon . I suggest in the future you buy from a brick and mortar dealer. I highly suggest you use the online dealers here if you wish to order online. Bob , Aldo and others. I can tell ya this, when I get my stuff from either one of those guys it's pkg like it was the Crown Jewels.

 

[chrisrosenb]

Festool intends the MFTs to be shipped, strapped to a pallet. 

That is the way 7 MFTs of mine were delivered to me undamaged. They were not all delivered at once either.
That is also how they are delivered to dealers.

It does not matter how well Festool packed MFTs, UPS & Fed Ex would find a way to damage them.

 

[RKA]

I can sympathize, but there are measures you can take to avoid unnecessary frustration.  As mentioned below, order from a retailer that has already learned that fixing problems arising from shipping is more costly for them.  Tool Nut and Bob Marino are two that I'm familiar with and recommend in this respect.  But, festool doesn't pack the interior of the systainers to handle shipping mistreatment a, and dealers seldom add additional packing inside the systainers to protect delicate contents, so a local dealer may be the best option here.  Believe me, I understand what a waste of time that can be, but establish the relationship, let them know you need the flexibility of ordering by phone so it's in stock when you make the trip.  Second, run the tool through its paces during the 30 day trial.  It's unrealistic to expect a tool manufacturer to warranty a blade and even though a defect in the cutting end of the tool is exceedingly rare, using that 30 day window can avoid additional expense and frustration. 

Finally, realize that everything you acquire will eventually require maintenance, calibration, troubleshooting, etc.  The only way to avoid it is not to acquire it.  Festool is a cut above, and I've only sent one item back for service (arguably my own doing), but it doesn't free you from these time sinks you're sensitive to. 

I say all this having a sharing a similar perspective on my time and the tools I spend on.  These are both lessons I've learned or continue to learn. 

 

[Paul G]

If packed in a 3/4" baltic birch dovetailed crate I'm sure UPS and FEDEX would still find a way to destroy it. As often as destroyed shipments have happened to me I wonder if it is in their job descriptions.

 

[peter halle]

If my memory serves me correctly the original MFT's were not able to be shipped via UPS or Fedex and had to be shipped Common Carrier which was a hassle for the recipient.  When the latest version came out the packaging was designed to meet the standards required by UPS and Fedex and thus it became less of a hassle to the recipient.  But some still get damaged in shipping.  Several dealers take it upon themselves at their own expense to double box the MFT so that there is a less likelihood of damage but once it leaves their warehouse they can't do more.  The box is an awkward size and weight and I image that much of the damage is caused by the edges of steps and bumpers of the delivery trucks when unloading.

The MFT's, the long rails, and Sysports are probably the most mentioned damaged in transit items.  They all are awkward (although not all are heavy).

Sorry to read about your saw.

Should you be compensated for your lost time?  Kinda hard to determine opportunity costs for each individual I would guess.

Peter

 

[Cheese]

I recently ordered MFS extrusions from both Bob Marino & Tool Nut. In both cases, the extrusions were double boxed and it literally took me 10 minutes to saw & carve away the outside packaging, however, the rails inside were in perfect condition.

I also ordered a DF 500 from Bob and the inside of the Systainer was filled with bubble wrap to protect the contents.  [cool]

Who you order from can make a big difference, or purchase locally if possible, then you can check the condition at the time of purchase.

 

[Rockne]

Sounds like you bought from Amazon . I suggest in the future you buy from a brick and mortar dealer. I highly suggest you use the online dealers here if you wish to order online. Bob , Aldo and others. I can tell ya this, when I get my stuff from either one of those guys it's pkg like it was the Crown Jewels.

Not Amazon . . . and Brick and Mortar stores are inconveniently far for me to drive.  While I'm griping about the MFT, perhaps I should point out that I was pleasantly surprised that my FS3000 rail arrived without damage.  Thanks for the tip about Bob, etc. 

 

[Throwback7r]

I bought my MFT from bob for just that reason.

 

[Rockne]

I am always amazed about the shipping stories I hear comming from America, they're simply unheard of here. And then you see this video of the delivery guy just throwing the flatscreen TV over the fence......

You're entitled to receive a product in perfect working order from the seller. As far as compensation for your time, unless your local law specifically states differently, you're not entitled to that. That's the risk of ordering online.

My delivery guy is fantastic. . . whomever touches the stuff before him (or even before UPS), that could be another story.  I still think this issue comes down to Festool's packaging.  The odd plywood strip here or there could do wonders.  I'm sure they've done the calculation between: cost of upgrading packaging vs. cost of dealing with returned items and figured out that it'll cost them less to deal with the damaged products.  My question is, are they calculating the lost sales from people like me and everyone I'll tell just to build their own MFT style table?  I don't know.

As far as "laws", I sure hope that we don't think that we are simply entitled to whatever the law provides.  Law ought to be the last resort (and almost always is, but you wouldn't know that from the litigious nature of our society).  I could break down the contract case that would lead me to the damages for lost time (eg. consequential damages), but my off-the-cuff comment was more directed at Festool needing "to make it right."   

 

[six-point socket]

Hi!

My personal thoughts on issues like this, and it's certainly not directed at Festool in particular:

If you are experiencing the same trouble/problem over and over again - instead of wasting time with exchanges, first- and second-level support - take it up to management. Tell them you are a longtime customer, happy with a lot of your purchases and now taking them up on their promise of quality/*whatever*.

I have done this in the past on 3 to 4 occasions, 2 were pretty severe, 2 just a big pain in the a** that I didn't want to cope with any longer. I wrote a real letter (not E-Mail, no call...) addressed to the CEO/Owner personally and politely but very directly informed them about what I was experiencing and that I did not agree with it and I was sure they could do better than that - after all that is why I chose their brand. Especially brands/manufacturers that consider themselves as "premium/luxury" will understand where you are coming from and act accordingly. But this requires that someone who is entirely free in his/her decisions on how to make good on you gets to know about your troubles/problems.

As long as you are stuck in first- and second-level support - they all just follow rules. (And it needs to be that way to keep the show running, if everyone working in support could decide on their own measures to solve a problem, nothing would wok out in the end...)

So if your problem is solved with a replacement and that was shipped out and arrived in a timely manner, be happy and do your thing. If you feel this is a true problem that needs "real" attention - write to management. Politely, short and precise.

It might sound severe, but it really isn't that dramatic. Only problems that are known can be solved - and the larger a company is, the less likely management is involved in day to day operations. There's a good chance no one at company "X" has made a connection between return numbers of working-table "Z" and it's maybe really lousy shipping crate. Because the information is either lost somewhere, not written down or whatever. They only see: 6 working-table "Z" returned = 6 new working-table "Z" shipped out.

And thats just the simple version. One could "argue" that dealers that see the need to re-pack this stuff could use their direct line to the manufacturer to ask for change in packing. The Manufacturer could "argue" that their shipping crate is absolutely suitable for their intended means of shipping and just not for end-consumer delivery by courier...

In a perfect world they would see/recognize: "Oh, alone 3 of those came from one customer because they were damaged during shipping" and do something about it. But then, most likely all three cases were worked on by different staff, one wrote it down, two others didn't and the link is missing.

IF EN ISO 9001 was thoroughly enforced and certification not just a farce - we wouldn't have to talk about stuff like this

Kind regards,
Oliver