Disappointed in ETS EC 125/3

[tdatta]

I just got this sander, was very excited considering the versatility with the larger pad.

Unfortunately it has significant amount of wobble. I have read the other threads about the wobble being caused by the use of the protection pad required for Granat Net. And while it is true that the wobble is worst when used in that configuration (hard pad, protection pad, Granat Net), there is still significant wobble when just using the normal soft pad and regular granat. Interestingly when I first tried the sander it was almost impossible to hold it steady. Now after a few additional tries of using it, the wobble is reduced but still quite significant.

Honestly the makita sander that I have is much more stable. The ETS EC does indeed have lower vibration and significantly lower noise, but the makita is just easier to use.

Do I have a dud?

 

[tdatta]

Maybe wobble isn’t the best way to describe it. I’ve seen some videos showing significant wobble of the body. In my case the body is not wobbling as much as the the sander being grabby and wanting to move around in a oscillatory/repetitive way.

 

[Chainring]

...the sander being grabby

Dust collection, yes or no?
If no dust collection, you need it since that unit does not have an internal blower.
If yes, the suction needs to be turned down quite a bit, else it tries to stick.

I'm guessing yes on the dust collection since grabby is usually associated with way too much on the vacuum side.

 

[tdatta]

...the sander being grabby

Dust collection, yes or no?
If no dust collection, you need it since that unit does not have an internal blower.
If yes, the suction needs to be turned down quite a bit, else it tries to stick.

I'm guessing yes on the dust collection since grabby is usually associated with way too much on the vacuum side.

Yes dust collection, but just a shop vac with no control for suction.

I recorded videos of the different configurations

Here is with no vac:
Here is with vac
When I actually lift it and hold it on the vertical plywood I am trying to keep it steady but it still moves around.
Apologies for the poor camera work, its been a long day

Note that the amount of movement is significantly less than earlier for some reason. The total run time on this tool is less than 15 minutes.

Also, now that I think about it, the sander doesnt complain when no vac is attached. Also my manual doesnt even have section 7.3 which is supposed to talk about that.

 

[squall_line]

Please say that in actual use, you have your hand on the sander itself?  The sander is not self-balancing and will not level on its own without being held.  The upright sanders like the ETS 125 are more self-balanced because of their upright design, but the ETS/EC is definitely not.

What grit are you using?

I've never had a sander that didn't want to jump around on me at least a little bit when using it on the edge of a board just because it's so difficult to keep perfectly flat so the leading or trailing edge wants to dig in and pull.

 

[tdatta]

Please say that in actual use, you have your hand on the sander itself?  The sander is not self-balancing and will not level on its own without being held.  The upright sanders like the ETS 125 are more self-balanced because of their upright design, but the ETS/EC is definitely not.

What grit are you using?

I've never had a sander that didn't want to jump around on me at least a little bit when using it on the edge of a board just because it's so difficult to keep perfectly flat so the leading or trailing edge wants to dig in and pull.

Yes I am holding it properly when actually using it. I was just trying to show that it wants to move around. Ive seen posts saying that the sanders stay still on their own. It moves the same way even when on a larger surface.

I’ve tried it with 80, 120, and 400 grit, regular granat and net. It’s similar with all grits but worst with 80.

 

[peter halle]

I don't have that model of sander although I do have 5 Festool sanders.  One thing I can tell you is that whenever you hook up a dust extractor or vacuum you need to have a way to control the suction.  Minimal suction - enough to capture the dust - but not enough to increase the sander to workpiece pressure is essential.

Peter

 

[Steve1]

Might be effected by your technique in handling the sander.
I keep one hand on the sander directly overtop of the pad (but don't push down), and the other hand, I hold the vacuum hose, trying just to counterbalance the weight of the hose, so the sanding pad stays exactly horizontal.

Sanding an edge with a 5" RO can be tricky.  You have to ensure your pad stays parallel to the surface.  Could be that the sander wants to move when you tilt it a touch.  Festool makes an edge sanding attachment, but I don't think it's compatible with your sander.

 

[mrboult]

The ETS EC 125/3 is easily the most affected sander by “full power suction“ that I’ve owned.

All my cheap sander’s previously, and my Rotex125 never needed less than full power suction to perform adequately.
But when i first got my ETS EC 125/3 i noticed immediately that it NEEDED half power suction most of the time to work smoothly. Same as the DTS400 I’ve since bought.

To be sure, try sanding with out the dust collection/suction for a bit. If your sander isn’t dead smooth like that then it’s a dud.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Makita does not make a comparable sander.

Repeating others comments, this sander needs adjustable dust extraction.
When sanding edges where the sander can not sit on the work by itself, you need a lightweight flexible hose.

 

[tsmi243]

Check the "throw" on your Makita.  I'm betting it's a lot smaller.

The /3 may be considered the milder sander compared to the /5, but pretty much any other brand of sander I've looked up has been closer to 1 or 1.5mm throw.  So the /3 is still a pretty aggressive machine.  It's also lighter in weight, which does amplify the behavior a bit. 

The 150/5 is my main sander, and it definitely does some of what you're showing in the vids.  But it sands sooo much faster than my old cheapy 5" palm sander.  And no tingly hands when I'm done. 

You got 30 days to decide.  Test it out on a few different things, and after spending time with it, go back to the Makita.  See if you notice anything?  Play with the speed settings, and TURN DOWN your suction, in whatever way you can. 

 

[woodferret]

At the risk of stating the obvious (which may not be obvious)... the bleeder valve on most shopvac hoses from say Rigid can be used to lower the suction power, despite the vac itself not being variable.

 

[tdatta]

So today I have acquired a MIDI, this seemed like a good excuse.

The ETS EC 125/3 is easily the most affected sander by “full power suction“ that I’ve owned.

At the risk of stating the obvious (which may not be obvious)... the bleeder valve on most shopvac hoses from say Rigid can be used to lower the suction power, despite the vac itself not being variable.

Repeating others comments, this sander needs adjustable dust extraction.
When sanding edges where the sander can not sit on the work by itself, you need a lightweight flexible hose.

I have run the sander now with reduced vacuum and a Festool hose, still the same issue.

Check the "throw" on your Makita.  I'm betting it's a lot smaller.

The "orbit diameter on the Makita is 1/8" (3mm), which I assume is the same as the 3mm stroke on the Festool assuming that the stroke is specified as a diameter and not a radius.

 

[woodferret]

Oh.  I popped open the videos.  Radiata pine plywood?  G1S?  Mine (150/5) will meander a bit more on that too.  It's more stable on hard surfaces like baltic but the gyrations are still more noticeable than the 1mm stroke sanders (but they're stable gyrations).  Softwoods tend to have a mind of their own.

Sanding such flatsawn woods that have cathedral soft dips and valleys, I either hold firm, or do a light pull-up just to counter the sander weight so it doesn't ride it like speed bumps.  This likely why 80 grit is also more jumpy, as it's been eating away at the softer valleys and throwing itself as it hits the harder peaks.

 

[tdatta]

Oh.  I popped open the videos.  Radiata pine plywood?  G1S?  Mine (150/5) will meander a bit more on that too.  It's more stable on hard surfaces like baltic but the gyrations are still more noticeable than the 1mm stroke sanders (but they're stable gyrations).  Softwoods tend to have a mind of their own.

Sanding such flatsawn woods that have cathedral soft dips and valleys, I either hold firm, or do a light pull-up just to counter the sander weight so it doesn't ride it like speed bumps.  This likely why 80 grit is also more jumpy, as it's been eating away at the softer valleys and throwing itself as it hits the harder peaks.

Thanks for the input. Yes it’s Selex from Home Depot. It’s decent for $40 a sheet.

I’m going to try your idea of pulling up a bit. But one thing that doesn’t jive with you suggestion is that the movement is predictable in that it is repetitive.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Thanks for the input. Yes it’s Selex from Home Depot. It’s decent for $40 a sheet.

Literally the only product that I buy from them at this point...and it's a good utility plywood with super thick face veneers, too.

-----
That said, I'm troubled by your description of how your new sander is operating. I've never experienced anything like that with any of my Festool sanders and unfortunatley, don't have any suggestions beyond what has already been offered.

 

[mino]

Oh.  I popped open the videos.  Radiata pine plywood?  G1S?  Mine (150/5) will meander a bit more on that too.  It's more stable on hard surfaces like baltic but the gyrations are still more noticeable than the 1mm stroke sanders (but they're stable gyrations).  Softwoods tend to have a mind of their own.

Sanding such flatsawn woods that have cathedral soft dips and valleys, I either hold firm, or do a light pull-up just to counter the sander weight so it doesn't ride it like speed bumps.  This likely why 80 grit is also more jumpy, as it's been eating away at the softer valleys and throwing itself as it hits the harder peaks.

Seconded. Using the hard pad helps too, it is meant for flattening after all, as it tend to not "dip" into the valleys as much.

And yes, P80 can be way too coarse for ondulating softwood.

As for suction, the new MIDI has both power regulation and a bleed valve on the hose. Do not shy from minimum suction and a even an opened valve. The Festool sanders do not need much suction to work well.

Also, try to use higher grits at higher speed. The higher speed helps prevent the sander "grabbing" the stock and the higher grits are more suitable for sanding-off the hard hills without removing too much stock from the valleys.

In summary: minimal suction, hard pad, max speed, higher grits (100 to 120 as a starter grit).

I would also consider a 150 hard pad dedicated for initial flattening (and getting just 80 and 120 papers for it). The bigger surface helps with the effects of softwood grabbing, so flattening is faster as one does not make the valleys more pronounced unwittingly.

For reference, my RS 200 (115x230 paper traditional orbital sander) can jump around on uneven soft plywood as well. And that sander is famous for being as smooth as it gets. The W126 of sanders.

 

[tdatta]

Seconded. Using the hard pad helps too, it is meant for flattening after all, as it tend to not "dip" into the valleys as much.

And yes, P80 can be way too coarse for ondulating softwood.

So its worst with the larger 150 hard pad and granat net 80 which requires the protection pad.
Im going to run some more tests today on different wood and report back.

 

[mino]

So its worst with the larger 150 hard pad and granat net 80 which requires the protection pad.
Im going to run some more tests today on different wood and report back.

That makes sense. The protection pad is pretty squishy, so it makes it work like a (very) soft pad.

Try to get some traditional paper to play around. I do not use net abrasives, but this setup really smells like "asking" for the net abrasive to grab the stock during the initial flattening.

 

[tdatta]

First of all, thanks to all for the great suggestions. I dont think there is anything wrong with the sander.

I think in the end it came down to using proper vacuum and becoming accustomed to the tool.
I did a comparison with another one of the same sander, and I made a terrible video comparing the two.
I ran many different tests, but the video shows the situation where the issue is worst, 150 pad, with protection pad, and Granat Net 80. In both cases I am not holding on to the sander directly, this is done to exacerbate the issue visually.

I think from the video you will see there is little difference between the two sanders. I found a marginal improvement in one of them. But this could very well just be my own bias.

See if you think one is marginally better than the other.