Dishwasher Panel and Warpage

J

John T.

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Oct 12, 2021
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Hi everyone, could use some quick advice. I'm making a dishwasher panel to match existing shaker style cabinet doors. The rail and stiles are poplar. The handle will be attached to the inset panel, so I'm using 1/2" baltic birch for rigidity (also need to meet the panel weight range).

The issue is the panel, which I haven't cut the rabbets on yet, has some warpage, about 1/8" or 3/16". I had it clamped down to the MFT in the hopes that moisture will even out. I clamped it to my table saw today after I realized the MFT isn't very flat and I'll double check the flatness tomorrow. This is my first time making a shaker cabinet door, but I'd assume normally when you're using 1/4" inset panels they conform to the flatness of the groove in the frame.

I need to call Bosch tomorrow and ask them if they have an actual spec for warpage for the panel, the instructions just says no warpage. Maybe some moisture-resistant marine grade MDF would have been a better material to use.

Edit: clarified inset panel is 1/2" baltic birch ply
 
Last edited:
MRMDF is the answer, it finishes well and will stay stable. Change the rails and stiles to hard maple.

Do not exceed the maximum height, wont be able to open the door is you do.

The warpage is zero as the specs state.

We also apply clear bra to the back of the dishwasher panels to help protect them from moisture.

Tom
 
Thanks Tom, I'll look to see where I can source that MDF from. Why do you say maple instead of poplar for the rails and stiles, is it for more strength or stability?

By clear bra do you mean 3M automotive protective film? And you use that even when the panel is going to be primed and painted?
 
We use hard maple for all of our face frame and radio and stile pieces. It is more stabile and finishes better than poplar.

Yes, the 3M protective film. If the directions for drying are followed once the wash cycle is over the door is to be partially opened, this runs a lot of moisture across the upper edge of the door.

Tom
 
Clamping sheet goods to something flat isn't going to make those sheet goods flat. That said, as @tjbnwi says, the moisture coming out of the dishwasher when opened is considerable (and very warm if not actually hot), so you're going to have some short-term moisture content imbalance. My Fisker-Paykel dishwasher came with a piece of film to be applied to the back side of a wood front panel. They recommend doing that no matter how the wood panel is finished, but I suspect they're partially/mostly covering their bases/arses.

Note the moisture is short-lived, so I believe that the film or even a really good protective finish can slow down moisture absorption by the panel enough that actual wood movement due to that moisture can be minimized. Still, I wouldn't want to start with a warped panel. The only way I know to flatten a panel is to change the balance of moisture on each side of the panel. A sheet good panel may cup away from the wet side - use that info to try to change the panel flatness. Maybe.
 
Right, I wasn't too confident clamping it would help, but I was hoping it was warped due to moisture imbalance and keeping it clamped while it equalized would help.

I found some some outdoor MR MDF (Armorite) available locally so I'm going to pick that up for the inset panel and will report back on how it turns out.
 
Here is the end result. I ended up using Armorite for the panel. It machined really well, night and day with the generic stuff stocked by the lumber yard closer to me. For the rails and stiles I used the poplar I had on hand after I accidentally milled the hard maple I bought a little too thin, and I needed to wrap this up. I'm not too concerned about longterm stability because the existing cabinets are junk grade that aren't really our style and we plan to have all the cabinets replaced in a year or so.

Painted with BM Advance which went on OK with a roller, paint color match is just acceptable. I nearly bought a HVLP but decided this would be a good enough finish. I don't really enjoy painting woodworking projects but I'm keeping my eye out for a good deal on a used turbine.

IMG_1319.jpg
 
On horizontal surfaces, using B/M Advance and a suitable roller, will get results approaching HVLP spray. Advance’s low viscosity encourages runs and drips, but also levels very well on horizontal surfaces. I would expect that painting that panel on a work-table (horizontal surfaces) would give excellent results.

Vertical surfaces are more of a challenge. I found using “Gold Taklon” brushes ($8.00 from Michael’s Craft stores) works well. I brush out until the brush starts to drag on the surface, a nearly dry-brush technique. I get about 90% coverage on the first coat and I don’t even try to get 100% coverage. The second coat, applied the same way give full coverage.

These Taklon brushes are probably designed for water colors or gauche finishes on paper, but they work well with Advance. I never see any tell-tale brush strokes, though the technique took a while to master.

I still use my HVLP sprayer for cabinets in my shop, but painting existing cabinet boxes require a huge amount of work mask. So brushing makes sense to me.


10194243_22.jpg


Note: The similar appearing brushes from Amazon using Gold Taklon bristles have a brush that is notably shorter. The shorter bristles are stiffer as a result and the brushing action, in my experience is inferior. I have the Amazon set, but never use it.
 
Thanks everyone

@Packard I did paint it horizontal and it leveled pretty well, but had issues when I tried to roll back over areas after noticing defects. It seemed to dry really fast but honestly I have little experience painting furniture so I don't have much to compare it to. If it had been a slab and didn't require the brush in the chamfer, would have been easier to get better results. I did water it down a bit on the final coat which I think helped.

I'll check out those brushes since I'll probably start using Advance for repainting trim around the house.
 
If you brush on, resist the temptation to get full coverage on the first coat. Trying to do so, in my experience, only led to drips and runs. Get the full coverage on the second coat.

Also, I used a very light pressure on the brush.

Note: I allowed 12 hours between coats. Some recommend more or less.

If you ever want a matte finish, General Finishes’ “Milk Paint”, which is really a modern acrylic indoor/outdoor paint, brushes out really nicely. I’ve used it with those same brushes and also foam brushes, and I get consistently brush-free looking finishes. It is actually the easiest paint I’ve ever brushed out. But note that the matte finish shows scuffs and scars rather easily.
 
morts10n said:
Handle on the recessed panel is absolutely dreadful...should be in top rail
Click to expand...
I would not call it “dreadful”, I would call it l”unconventional”. Depending on how far the counter overhangs the panel, mounting it on the top rail may be difficult to reach. In that case, unconventional trumps dreadful.
 
Packard said:
I would not call it “dreadful”, I would call it l”unconventional”. Depending on how far the counter overhangs the panel, mounting it on the top rail may be difficult to reach. In that case, unconventional trumps dreadful.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and since the panel is ½" stock, should be strong enough. A ¼" thick panel might be dicey.

Looking more closely at the photo, given the exposed faceframe style, I would have struggled with the decision as to whether the dishwasher panel front should align with the faceframe or with other other drawers and doors. He chose faceframe; I probably would have gone with doors/drawers since the dishwasher itself is like a door. Then again, since this is just temporary for a year or so, I guess it doesn't really matter until the new replacement cabinets are designed.
 
There was a question I meant to ask earlier.

I was tempted to add a panel to my dishwasher. However, it was not designed to accommodate a panel. I decided it was more work than it was worth to retrofit the panel to a dishwasher that was not designed to have one.

So, the question: Was this dishwasher designed to have a panel, or was this a retrofit?

And while on the subject, has anyone retrofitted a panel to a dishwasher or refrigerator that was not designed to accommodate one? If so, how was the panel attached?
 
Here's a short DIY video of how one couple did it:


That was 4 years ago, and the couple just responded that it's held up fine. They used double stick tape (heavy duty, like used for car emblems) and then ran longer screws from the inside, replacing the existing screws.

There apparently is some concern about the heavier weight leading to louder sounds on open and maybe some additional tension on hinges/springs making them wear out faster.
 
smorgasbord said:
Here's a short DIY video of how one couple did it:


That was 4 years ago, and the couple just responded that it's held up fine. They used double stick tape (heavy duty, like used for car emblems) and then ran longer screws from the inside, replacing the existing screws.

There apparently is some concern about the heavier weight leading to louder sounds on open and maybe some additional tension on hinges/springs making them wear out faster.
Click to expand...

I was thinking self-adhesive tape plus epoxy. Of course if it does not work well, I would have an ugly mess on my hands.
 
If you’re going to add a panel, make sure you have room to push the dishwasher back to get the face inline with the surrounding cabinetry.

You’ll also haver to reset to doors balance springs.

Tom
 
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