Does this look safe to you?

[Ajax]

Safe?

Looks like it's a tool demo at a Russian trade show.

 

[Cheese]

Better his thumb than mine... [eek]

Am pretty impressed with the dust extraction, though.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I didn't see anything specifically worrying. This is how professionals in a production environment work.

It's not how I work with my saw, but I'm not a pro and I can take my time and take more precautions.

Since you brought this up, what do you think is done wrong in the video?

 

[DB10]

His finger nails looked well trimmed, all good though. I'm liking the look of that saw.

 

[Holmz]

[member=42735]DB10[/member] - me too.  
They have been making those Erika's for a few decades...
Shipping to a port (Adelaide or Melbourne or Sydney) is ~500$ , but it maybe cheaper for 2 or 3.

They also have their version of 'CMS inserts', so their LO-65 router (or maybe also a Bosch, Elu etc) can be on the wing.
They appear to be more of the more stable, and light, portable table saws.

 

[DB10]

[member=40772]Holmz[/member] Thanks, I know you have some Mafell tools and like them. I also like Mafell and I used to use their tools when I worked for a boat builders in the UK but like [member=13058]Kev[/member] has mentioned a few times, Importing their tools into Australia is a pain, just wished they had a distribution and service for their tools already set up. What do you do if anything goes wrong?

 

[Holmz]

[member=40772]Holmz[/member] Thanks, I know you have some Mafell tools and like them. I also like Mafell and I used to use their tools when I worked for a boat builders in the UK but like [member=13058]Kev[/member] has mentioned a few times, Importing their tools into Australia is a pain, just wished they had a distribution and service for their tools already set up. What do you do if anything goes wrong?

Yeah [member=42735]DB10[/member] you have a point.

The CT26 got a dodgy water sensor, and that was repaired free of charge. However once tools are out of warranty then having a local repairer may, or may not, be useful. As a case in point: I got a Protools saw a few years ago at a wood show in Melbourne near the Crowne casino. That got a dodgy baring and was going to cost more to fix then the saw was worth after I sent it to where the festools get fixed.
It was at that point when I got the MT55 ordered from Europe. It has been a nice little saw and I have it on an MFT/3 when it is not on the card table.

My primary concern is quality and durability, then ergonomics, and warranty further down the list.
I do not recall if they have a 1 or 3 year warranty.
The Mirka DEROS was 1 year and extended to 2 years when you register it within a month.

Back to the Erika...
If there were other portable table saws that did the same, and cheaper, and local, I would probably have one.
It seems like it is in another class.

One can say that same about the Z5ec

It gets easier (or harder decision-wise) with other tools. Festool has a sword saw, and Hema has a bunch of big timber-framing tools as well, so does Makita.

Back to the Erika...
There seems to be no other tool like it.
If I had the room I would consider a Felder/Hammer, but they are not portable.
So if I want one, then I have no choice but to get it onto a boat and assume that I either need to cross fingers that it arrives intact and stays running or I have a huge shipping bill.
Or the other choice is an upside down TS75 on a FT CMS, but by the time I add it all up it is close to the same outlay of $ as the Erika.
I know I want it, I am trying to use my head more than the heart (or other) to justify it and think it through.

 

[Kev]

[attachimg=3][member=42735]DB10[/member] [member=40772]Holmz[/member]

The Protool portable band saw is(/was?) very similar to the Mafell. Can't image shaping a beam like that with a normal bandsaw!! ... or anything else for that matter.

For anyone wanting a high accuracy portable table saw ... please don't make my mistake. Sometimes I over think things and because of this I've got a setup that is sub optimal. Down the track I will make space for a Felder Saw/Spindle slider, but in the short term it will not fit, so I had to find something portable (not to take from site to site, obviously, just to be able to put it away and be relatively compact when in use).

My clever thinking was that if I get the CMS TS75 setup and also ultimately get my dream Felder, the TS75 itself is very useful and all of the CMS GE and add ons can be used on the other modules anyway.

What I should have done was buy the baby Hammer sliding saw on a moveable base and planned to trade up when I had space. Another appropriate strategy would have been to buy a CS70 and simply sell it when it's Felder time.

As we're on a MAfell thread, from the perspective of comparing tools only and ignoring availability, service, support, etc .. I believe the Erika 85 to be a superior tool to the CS70 (and the extra cutting depth doesn't hurt). Alas, Mafell has snot stuck up it's nose when it comes to servicing Australia.

Before anyone gets upset, the CMS TS75 is not terrible, as far as an upside down portable saw in a table goes .. you won't get better. The table accessories are also top notch and the sliding table makes it very useful. Sadly the deployed footprint with all the doodads is only a little smaller than a fully configured CS70.

Now for the irony .. I never put the CMS TS75 away, it sits in the back third or my garage fully configured with a CT36 dedicated underneath it! [embarassed]

[attachimg=1]

 

[bkharman]

I also love the 75 in my CMS Kev. I have mine in a VL and use it with my Incra LS fence. It does an awesome job.

That being said. I have been talking with Felder about a C 31 comfort on anniversary special and the 15k configure comes in at under 10k with a 1k shipping credit. Need to convince the wifey but don't think it will happen. I think getting a jointer/thickness planer and a bandsaw at the moment.

We are building a new house and I get 1,000 feet for my shop so I am already planning for 10 months for now!

Here was the ground break and footer pour this week.

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[Holmz]

[attachimg=3]
...
For anyone wanting a high accuracy portable table saw ... please don't make my mistake.
...
What I should have done was buy the baby Hammer sliding saw on a moveable base and planned to trade up when I had space.
...

[member=13058]Kev[/member]
What is the model identifier of the Hammer you suggest?

 

[bkharman]

[attachimg=3]
...
For anyone wanting a high accuracy portable table saw ... please don't make my mistake.
...
What I should have done was buy the baby Hammer sliding saw on a moveable base and planned to trade up when I had space.
...

[member=13058]Kev[/member]
What is the model identifier of the Hammer you suggest?

I am guessing the C31.

 

[Kev]

I also love the 75 in my CMS Kev. I have mine in a VL and use it with my Incra LS fence. It does an awesome job.

That being said. I have been talking with Felder about a C 31 comfort on anniversary special and the 15k configure comes in at under 10k with a 1k shipping credit. Need to convince the wifey but don't think it will happen. I think getting a jointer/thickness planer and a bandsaw at the moment.

We are building a new house and I get 1,000 feet for my shop so I am already planning for 10 months for now!

Here was the ground break and footer pour this week.

Cheers. Bryan.

[member=21412]bkharman[/member]

Congrats on "breaking the soil!" [big grin]

I thought long and hard about a full combination machine, but my conclusion .. for the space I'll ultimately have and the way I'd like to work .. gravitates towards a saw/spindle and a planer/thicknesser.

I too will be leaning towards bandsaw and planer/thicknesser before the saw.

I actually have space for a bandsaw now (tight) but I'm still on the fence about the model. Reality will probably land on the FB510, but the table on the FB610 is magically huge (and only comes in 3 phase and that'll cost as much to get on tap as the machine itself).

Big machine DC is yet another dilemma [sad]

 

[DB10]

I'm liking the look of that Mafell Z5ec, I guess the guy operating it in the video though loves the taste of saw dust!

[member=21412]bkharman[/member]  Question you need to ask yourself, Are you going to be spending more time in the house or the workshop? If it's not to late, double the size of the workshop and half the size of the house, I'm sure the other half would understand. [wink]

 

[bkharman]

I am bringing in the in laws...  Father in law was diagnosed with Alzheimer's last year so we want the rug rats to spend more time before it gets too bad.

House is a tad over 10.000 sq feet on 6 acres on the river so my 1000-1200 feet are more than fine with me. We are putting in an infinity edge pool looking to the river so between that and my decent shop space I am very eager for it to wrap... Too bad it is 10 months away!!

Cheers all. Bryan.

 

[DB10]

Sounds great, and 10 months will soon pass and like you say you have got a nice bit of time to really plan this new workshop and get what you really want. good luck with it all.

 

[Kev]

[attachimg=3]
...
For anyone wanting a high accuracy portable table saw ... please don't make my mistake.
...
What I should have done was buy the baby Hammer sliding saw on a moveable base and planned to trade up when I had space.
...

[member=13058]Kev[/member]
What is the model identifier of the Hammer you suggest?

I am guessing the C31.

[member=21412]bkharman[/member] no no, actually what I should have done was get either the K3 Basic or K3 Winner and then trade it up to the Felder KF700 when I'm ready.

Here in Oz I've found out (a little too late) that not only do the Felder/Hammer machines really hold their value, the local Felder group go out of their way to buy back, restore and help you upgrade in a very equitable manner.

There's a healthy (but not huge) Felder second hand market here too ...
http://www.machines4u.com.au/view/advert/FELDER-BFG-41/264404/

(that works out to be about 4 cups of coffee in $USD at the moment)

 

[bkharman]

The 700 is a beast!  I looked and it ended up being about 23k with options but that is still a tremendous deal for something that will last decades.

On a side note, we should be in your neck of the woods next month. (Sort of). I am moving my pops to one of my sisters house... From Rotorua to Auckland. I will let you know if we get to Sydney or anywhere else on the big island!

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[Kev]

The 700 is a beast!  I looked and it ended up being about 23k with options but that is still a tremendous deal for something that will last decades.

On a side note, we should be in your neck of the woods next month. (Sort of). I am moving my pops to one of my sisters house... From Rotorua to Auckland. I will let you know if we get to Sydney or anywhere else on the big island!

Cheers. Bryan.

I work in the city of Sydney and live on the Northern Beaches ... I'll pm you some contact details.

 

[Ajax]

I didn't see anything specifically worrying. This is how professionals in a production environment work.

It's not how I work with my saw, but I'm not a pro and I can take my time and take more precautions.

Since you brought this up, what do you think is done wrong in the video?

Holding a 2 inch long piece of wood in your fingers (even though there is a fence forms support) while pulling a spinning blade towards the work piece?

If this is how pros do it in a production environment, then I pity them for feeling they need to compromise safety in such a way.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Holding a 2 inch long piece of wood in your fingers (even though there is a fence forms support) while pulling a spinning blade towards the work piece?

If this is how pros do it in a production environment, then I pity them for feeling they need to compromise safety in such a way.

If you knew how they work at my local lumberyard you'd fill your pants. I've seen them push wood through the saw with their thumb just a 1/2 inch away from the blade. People who work all day with those saws do such silly things.

As for the pull action, it is a lot safer than you think. You yourself are completely stationary and so is the wood. When the blade moves you push the wood against the fence so it is locked. Obviously I wouldn't do what that guy did there myself, but owning the Festool CS70 pull saw myself, I am MUCH more comfortable using the pull action than using it the standard way where you push the wood into the blade.