Domino Registration pins, useful?

[ztifpatrick]

I've had my Domino since shortly after they came out in the US & I would not be without it. In reading around the posts here I see some people swear by the registration pins & others could care less about them. I don't use them much, though I would like to because I can see how they would speed things up. Maybe I'm approaching things wrong, but I don't see how you could use them for any more than 2 plunges, one from each side of a board. The reason is I always make one board with the width set to the narrowest setting and on the mating board I use the middle setting. This works fine for 2 holes, but in a succession of mortises if your using different width setting on the 2 boards will lead to a misalignment. Maybe it's because I've used on longer lengths, 6ft etc, but I could not see using the narrow setting on both pieces as this would be way to tight to assemble & certainly there would be some slight misalignment somewhere. What's the other way out? To use the middle width setting on both boards to be joined? I like having one tight, I sort of feel to have them both wide would be sloppy. I'd be interested in hearing from other users on what they find best. Currently I use pencil marks and it's not too slow, just some measuring up front.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I use pencil marks because without them I have had problems due to chips interfering with proper registration of the pins on successive mortices, especially when cutting 5mm mortices into the shop grade Chinese 3/4" plywood from HD.  I find using pencil marks faster for me because I don't have to bend over to confirm registration of the pins after each successive mortice down the line.  I always choose a reference surface and edge and use the narrowest mortice width setting for the first mortices cut into both pieces to be joined so the reference edges will be correctly aligned.  Thereafter, for the rest of the mortices, in one member they can be using the narrowest setting and in the mating piece I either use the middle width setting.  Or if I want the mortice to be just a smidge wider than the narrowest setting, I use the narrowest setting but intentionally plunge the Domino machine first with it postioned a little to the left of the mark and again with it positioned a little to the right.  I find this helpful with my 5mm mortice cutter and early batch of beech dominos which are a very tight fit.

Be sure to confirm that your left and right registration pins are centered relative to the mortice.  My Domino machine came well aligned, but for a period after introduction, some other purchasers and posters on FOG indicated that adjustments were needed.

I find the pins very helpful for narrow workpieces where I can reference off the edges.

I find the centering guide for narrow workpieces works very well.

Dave R.

 

[wnagle]

I like the pins when doing a face frame.... quick and simple.  When gluing up long boards, I use pencil marks and wider mortises.  This gives me perfect vertical allignment and allows wiggle room side to side to match my boards up.  I use them.... or not, depending on the task.

 

[Ted Miller]

patrick, I only use the tightest setting for cutting the mortices. I would say 98% of the time I use my pencil marks for my cuts. If I do large face frames like refrigerator enclosure or tall pantry cabinets then I will use the cross stop pins, but still using the tightest cut. I have not had a problem with alignment. I would not miss the pins if they were not there. I have even been thinking of purchasing a new stlye domino since business is so good right now, if I can get one with the plastic pins so I can remove them altogether. If I needed pins on the new unit, slap on the cross stop away I go.

I did learn a valuable lesson though using the tightest cut, do not dry fit, lost some money on a QSWO project, so no more dry fits for me, lol...

 

[Dongar]

Hi I use the side stops to make mortises that are tight on one side and wide on the second board (after the first mortise which is tight for end alignment ) the method I used I outlined in this post .http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=3941.msg45656#msg45656  If my explanation is not clear let me know. Donald

 

[ztifpatrick]

Thanks for the pointers, it's always helpful to hear how others work. I hadn't thought about making the 1st mortises on both pieces narrow for registration  I'm in the process of making a bookcase which is really a hidden door. I have all the mortises cut & used this method of registration mortises for all the shelves. Haven't assembled yet, will try a dry fit later today.

 

[wnagle]

When you do a dry fit, often the tennons are very hard to remove.  As some have suggested, I have sanded some tennons down on the sides a bit to be used for the dry fit only.  that way you can get it apart without damage.  Then use a fresh set of tennons for the glue up.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

When you do a dry fit, often the tennons are very hard to remove.  As some have suggested, I have sanded some tennons down on the sides a bit to be used for the dry fit only.  that way you can get it apart without damage.  Then use a fresh set of tennons for the glue up.

True, in my experience especially with the 5mm tenons which are what I use for 3/4 inch plywood and most edging applications.  I had a terrible time with the tenons supplied with my Domino machine which I bought when it was first being distributed.  I had to sand a lot off those tenons in order to be able to remove them after a dryfit check.  I even sanded the ones I used to glue up, and often struggled to close the joints home when glueing up.  Through this I learned when working with plywood to always drive the dominos home into the mortices that run parallel to the layers of the plywood.  If you don't and put the dominos first into the mortices that run perpendicular to the faces of the plywood, and you come upon a stubborn domino, when you force the joint home, the domino will pop through the side of the sheet.  Much worse than a bad hair day, particularly if you have spent the time to prefinish your components prior to glueup.

Ckristian O. had informed us that Festool changed the dimensions of the 5mm dominos to make them easier to insert.  I don't recall if he said whether Festool also changed the diameter of the morticing bit.

Recently I took several "original" 5mm dominos which were sold under Item #493296, and measured them with a digital caliper.  Average Thickness was about 5.10mm and average Width was about 19.05mm.

I also measured several of a recently purchased bag of 300 sold under Item #494938.  Their average Thickness was about 5.05mm and their average Width was about 18.9mm.

My actual measurements confirmed what Christian had stated, and my experience in using the newer Item number tenons confirms they are noticeably easier to insert and remove.  I still chamfer the edges of the ends by swiping them against a stationary piece of sandpaper prior to using them in a glueup, because it eases assembly, but doing so is not really necessary for most work.

I'm a hobbyist, so the clock is not critical to me as it is for someone who makes their living through woodworking.

Dave R,

 

[Jesse Cloud]

I think ztifpatrick was spot on in the opening post on this thread.  The locating pins are handy for a second or maybe third mortise, but you are asking for trouble if you go much further.  Its basically a situation where any variation is additive.  Say the second mortise is 0.1 mm off, you start 0.1 mm off measuring for the third which may be another 0.1 off, and the fourth will start at 0.2 off.  Pretty soon we are talking real slop...

Not meant as a criticism.  I'm glad they are there, but its important to recognize the issues inherent in additive measurement.

 

[Warrior]

I find the registration pins to be extremely helpful. I use them all the time for joining larger frame members together, like doors.  I make my own dominoes to fit the widest and deepest settings with a 10mm bit(my dominoes have about 1-2mm of lateral play). When I make the frame stock at 127mm wide I can start plunging with the pin registered on either side of the stock and both mortices will be equadistant from the edges.  8)  I would hope that Festool changes back to the pin design after Mafell's patent runs out.

 

[sw1211]

Seems like Freud's new Doweling Joiner is going to infringe on the patent too.

http://www.freudtools.com/p-420-fdw710k-doweling-joiner.aspx

 

[pafekete]

I have just completed making many boards for several projects with the domino and I also came to the conclusion that the registration pins were only good at the edges, so I just used pencil marks. The viewing window makes this easy to do. I use the smallest setting only on the first mortice on both boards. The next mortice I go to the next size hole and then for all the rest the third size.  The most important thing is that the holes are registered from the top of the board the same. So I use the top of the board with the face plate (the part with the viewing window) down and lean on it so that all my holes are exactly the same place vertically in the thickness of the boards. This is what makes the boards dead flat with no cleanup at the glueline. I dry fit but have had to remove the tenon from the first hole with a pair of pliers but it doesn't seem to hurt it and I reuse the same one in the glue up.
Hope this helps. I love the dominoe. I used to make loose tenons with the Leigh FMT jig and loose tenon stock from Lee Valley but the festool system is the best.
Peggy

 

[nickao]

I think the Leigh FMT jig is suited more toward bigger items, not little itty bitty loose tenons. For larger M & T  the Leigh is better than the Festool. The Festool has a far more narrow scope than the Leigh FMT jig. To me they are totally different, I do not see using the Leigh for plywood much.

I think both would be great if one could afford it.

 

[nickao]

Seems like Freud's new Doweling Joiner is going to infringe on the patent too.

http://www.freudtools.com/p-420-fdw710k-doweling-joiner.aspx

I don't know it looks like a copy of Freud's own biscuit joiner with two horizontal boring bits that DO NOT oscillate from left to right so I do not think infringes on the Festool Domino at all.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Seems like Freud's new Doweling Joiner is going to infringe on the patent too.

http://www.freudtools.com/p-420-fdw710k-doweling-joiner.aspx

I don't know it looks like a copy of Freud's own biscuit joiner with two horizontal boring bits that DO NOT oscillate from left to right so I do not think infringes on the Festool Domino at all.

I think the poster means it will infringe on the Mafell's indexing pins like the Domino did.