Dominos strong enough for closet door with large inset mirror?

[mike1967]

Hello.

I need to build a closet door.  Material will be white oak, 1 5/16" thick, with a single panel of 1/4" white oak ply.  I have built a few of these doors so far and have used dominos (regular size, not XL) to join the rails and stiles.  So far the doors are doing well. 

The issue is that the next door I have to build will require an inset mirror which I will glue to the inside panel of the door.  The mirror will not be visible when the closet door is closed.  The piece of mirror will be pretty big, something on the order of 60" tall by 20" wide, and this will add a lot of weight to the door when it is complete.  I am concerned about the strength of the domino tenons given the weight of the door + mirror. I could probably use six regular domino tenons on the rail/stile joints, three stacked pairs.    Any thoughts on this?  Will it be strong enough to last many years?

Thanks, Mike

 

[greg mann]

Gluing to the inside panel may not be the way to go. The panel will want to expand and contract. That said, if the mirror fills the panel cavity without gaps between it and the frame it will essentially become a support to the frame and help to keep it from racking.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

Just built a pocket door out of sapele that will have a mirror installed in the center.  I used 20 dominos on the bottom to connect the stile to the rail and used 10 dominos on the top to connect the stile and rail.  The door measures 2/8 x 8/0, 1 1/2 thick.  I used a piece of 1/2 ply in the middle where the mirror will ateach after paint.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

More picts

 

[mike1967]

Ok, thanks for posting.  That looks quite close to what I am building.  It looks like I should be able to get more than six dominos per rail/stile joint based on your experience. 

Agreed about the mirror preventing racking. 

Mike

 

[PreferrablyWood]

Ok, thanks for posting.  That looks quite close to what I am building.  It looks like I should be able to get more than six dominos per rail/stile joint based on your experience. 

Agreed about the mirror preventing racking. 

Mike

I'm not that knowledgable but it seems too many dominos could also be a problem, isn't the main point with dominos to assist in alignment? Just a thought as the images above seems like they could even weaken the structure...of the stile

 

[Holmz]

You may wanted to consider using the removable for one side (the knob end), and then you could captivate the mirror in the door like a floating panel.
Glass is pretty strong and would prevent the door from racking.
If it did end up breaking you could remove those dominoes and reinstall a new piece.

... maybe?

 

[CrazyLarry]

Why not rebate the frame, fit a back panel, then the mirror and then beading all round.

That way you can have the flush or inset look, the glass / wood are free to move against each other but the panel keeps it all stiiff.

As for the dominos I'm pretty sure you can go too far with them especially when you consider the glue is always stronger than the wood is...

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

Ok, thanks for posting.  That looks quite close to what I am building.  It looks like I should be able to get more than six dominos per rail/stile joint based on your experience. 

Agreed about the mirror preventing racking. 

Mike

I'm not that knowledgable but it seems too many dominos could also be a problem, isn't the main point with dominos to assist in alignment? Just a thought as the images above seems like they could even weaken the structure...of the stile

Sapele is a harder wood.  It's harder than hard maple.  The dominos have a 3/4 spacing between them.  I did a test on a joint when I first got the domino using this same technique and couldn't break the joint.  I've also never had any issues with any of the doors I built in the past.

 

[rst]

A note on mirrors and doors, by code that mirror must be either glued (spot glued every couple inchs and only use an adhesive meant for mirrors...common ones will chemically attack the silvering) and/or must have a safety backing applied.  If backing is used it must have open spots for the adhesive to hold.  We glue mirrors to doors regularly with no issues, mirror specific glues are tacky and can cope with wood movement.

 

[Cheese]

I used 20 dominos on the bottom to connect the stile to the rail and used 10 dominos on the top to connect the stile and rail.  The door measures 2/8 x 8/0, 1 1/2 thick. 

Looks good...just curious how wide the rail and stiles are? Also what finish are you going to use on the sapele?

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

Rails measure 4 3/4 wide.  Top stile is 4 3/4 and the lower stile is 9 3/4.  The door will be painted white.  I got a good deal on 8/4 quarter sawn sapele.  I would have typically used fur. 

 

[Cheese]

The door will be painted white.  I got a good deal on 8/4 quarter sawn sapele.  I would have typically used fur. 

Thanks for the info. Painting sapele...ouch. Just curious if the QS Sapele has the same visible rays and flakes as QS white oak?

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

The door will be painted white.  I got a good deal on 8/4 quarter sawn sapele.  I would have typically used fur. 

Thanks for the info. Painting sapele...ouch. Just curious if the QS Sapele has the same visible rays and flakes as QS white oak?

It does have the same kinds of rays as white oAK qtrsawn.  It's very pretty. 

 

[jbair]

Ok, thanks for posting.  That looks quite close to what I am building.  It looks like I should be able to get more than six dominos per rail/stile joint based on your experience. 

Agreed about the mirror preventing racking. 

Mike

I'm not that knowledgable but it seems too many dominos could also be a problem, isn't the main point with dominos to assist in alignment? Just a thought as the images above seems like they could even weaken the structure...of the stile

Actually, the domino does much more that help alignment. Gluing end grain to long grain is inherently weak because the glue absorbs up into the fibrous end and subsequently "starves" the joint. The domino gets its strength along its grain structure and tremendously adds structural strength.