Ebay Fraudulent Listing for Festool Accessories

[Coen]

How would the owners of such places get rich? Poor/Low Income people might be able to improve their lives? This sounds crazy.

Easy, rig the housing market. Last 50 years, wages rose by 10% and housing prices by 800%. Everybody needs a bank loan to buy a house, and bank loans mean interest.

No different than in the US.  Aside from someone building a house on their own someplace, everyone has got loans to buy a home for....basically the beginning.  50 years ago interest rates here were massive, folks buying/building homes in the 70s were paying 10-15+% on mortgages, now people pay....3%.  Housing loan rates are low and have been very a very long time, and even after the crash, it's not very hard to get a loan for way more than you can afford, but mainly that sort of thing has moved on to cars.  Go get a 96 month loan on a used car.  You can get 120 month loans if you would like

Yes. I bought my first house in 1984. I got a discounted rate as a "first time home buyer" and it was a whopping 11 3/4%. I think that "savings" was 1% or maybe 1 1/4%? I don't remember.
My last mortgage started in 2002 and I think it was 5% maybe 5 1/4%, but it was only 15 years

Oh, the high-interest rate era? You should add that that was fully compensated by lower prices and when mortgage term lapsed you could refinance at half the rate while the principal was never corrected for inflation.

Average Dutch home was 3.9x median income in 1990. Now it's ... 10x

30 year old homes that could 30 years ago be financed with a single 0.8x median wage now require 2.2x median wage to finance. But back then the windows weren't expired, the roof wasn't leaking and the outlets weren't yellow

 

[DeformedTree]

Oh, the high-interest rate era? You should add that that was fully compensated by lower prices and when mortgage term lapsed you could refinance at half the rate while the principal was never corrected for inflation.

Average Dutch home was 3.9x median income in 1990. Now it's ... 10x

30 year old homes that could 30 years ago be financed with a single 0.8x median wage now require 2.2x median wage to finance. But back then the windows weren't expired, the roof wasn't leaking and the outlets weren't yellow

Something to keep in mind, in the US, the price of homes varies massively.  You will hear plenty claim they can never buy a home or they are too expensive, the reality is that is in certain areas, mainly a few metro areas.  You can buy perfectly good homes all over the country very cheap. The expectations of a lot of folks here, primarily young people is very disconnected. Starter home is not the same idea to them as it was in the past.

The Netherlands, you just are not going to have those kinds of variations because you just don't have the space like we have here.

Some places in the US prices have always been high, but the income gap verses housing price gaps you talk about are very much the same. A lot of places that are now expensive, either were not anything like they are today 40-50 years ago.

 

[Coen]

There is variation here too. In the northeastern part of the country prices are way way lower. But they are rapidly increasing too now that people found out they can work from home.

Expectations aren't that disconnected. Kids of babyboomers need two full wages to buy the same (now deprecated) house their parents bought on a single wage. And if I were to add in the home my grandpa had...

But excess population growth is the big elephant in the room. The birth surplus in the Netherlands is nil. For years we have had talk about demolishing houses, reducing social rent properties and rebuilding some older houses. And now it's "1 million new houses before 2030"... while nobody wants to address the +90k nett migration.

 

[frahengeo]

It appears that there are counterfeit Domino cutters on Ebay that look very good.  My first suspicion was when the merchandise was said to be located in Connecticut, but shipped from California.  I immediately contacted the merchant about the inconsistencies, and did not get a response.  Once I received the cutters, I compared it to an authentic cutter.

Country of Origin:

The authentic cutters read, Made In Austria.  The suspect cutters, Made In Germany.

Packaging:

The authentic cutters are packaged in polypropylene containers.  The suspect cutters read PVC.

The labeling:  The label on the authentic packaging is glossy, and the print is nice and crisp.  The suspect ones have a matte finish label, and the ink is smeared.  The etched print on the cutters themselves are vastly different too.  The authentic ones are again nice and crisp.  The suspect ones are of a different text style, and are barely legible.  I've forwarded this information to Festool USA with an inquiry, and they are forwarding it to Festool Germany for feedback.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[HighlandMarine]

Looking for some info on this too. I put in an opening bid on a set of four of these cutters for $125, I won, pretty sure why after seeing this posted four days after said purchase. Can anyone confirm if Festool ever used this style of package for the Domino cutters? Once I received the cutters, I compared it to an authentic cutter. Tolerances are pretty close with a good pair of digital calipers, but has the same poorly printed font, packaging/label are off, paper insert doesn’t even say Festool. PVC packaging as well, sold as CT, shipped from California.

Edit: fix quote

It appears that there are counterfeit Domino cutters on Ebay that look very good.  My first suspicion was when the merchandise was said to be located in Connecticut, but shipped from California.  I immediately contacted the merchant about the inconsistencies, and did not get a response. 

Country of Origin:

The authentic cutters read, Made In Austria.  The suspect cutters, Made In Germany.

Packaging:

The authentic cutters are packaged in polypropylene containers.  The suspect cutters read PVC.

The labeling:  The label on the authentic packaging is glossy, and the print is nice and crisp.  The suspect ones have a matte finish label, and the ink is smeared.  The etched print on the cutters themselves are vastly different too.  The authentic ones are again nice and crisp.  The suspect ones are of a different text style, and are barely legible.  I've forwarded this information to Festool USA with an inquiry, and they are forwarding it to Festool Germany for feedback.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[squall_line]

It sounds like both of these purchaser should open cases with eBay.  Let eBay force the dealer to prove that these are authentic, especially considering how fishy everything seems.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Has anyone actually tested any of them? I have a number of the cutter copies made by CMT and they are perfect.

 

[HighlandMarine]

It sounds like both of these purchaser should open cases with eBay.  Let eBay force the dealer to prove that these are authentic, especially considering how fishy everything seems.

Opened a case with eBay, asked seller who his regular authorized dealer he uses for Festool is… crickets of course. Persons first language is not English, didn’t ever argue that they were real. Just said return them. Then said if it was opened he wouldn’t accept the return. After reporting him, went and found more of his fake accounts and listings(or extremely similar) and reported them all.

 

[mino]

Has anyone actually tested any of them? I have a number of the cutter copies made by CMT and they are perfect.

The issue is not if they "work" but if they are genuine.

Unless one has a really really funky lab, with electron microscopes, spectroscopes atsc., there is NO WAY a customer can properly validate the material quality without heavy use. The whole fakes business model is built atop that limitation. They rely on the customer finding out too late and not having a way to prove the issue is not from bad handling by then. Besides, by then their shop entity will be long recycled to a different one .. so Festool will get the blame ..

We all just have to go by the brand trust here so kicking out fakes is really important.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Has anyone actually tested any of them? I have a number of the cutter copies made by CMT and they are perfect.

The issue is not if they "work" but if they are genuine.

Unless one has a really really funky lab, with electron microscopes, spectroscopes atsc., there is NO WAY a customer can properly validate the material quality without heavy use. The whole fakes business model is built atop that limitation. They rely on the customer will find out too late and will not have a way to prove the issue is not from bad handling by then. Besides, by then their shop entity will be long recycled to a different one ..

We all just have to go by the brand trust here so kicking out fakes is really important.

I didn't see they were actually branded as Festool, makes sense now.

 

[xedos]

we would get a handful of payments a week at most.
and we actively discourage it due to hefty processing fees at bank these days.

Your bank charges you to make a deposit of cash ?  Really ?  [eek]

Is the fee, the same , more, or less than the processing fee the clearing house (bank) charges you for credit card transactions ?

 

[frahengeo]

Hi Everyone,

A little bit of an update from contacting Festool USA.  I forwarded the same images I posted here in my communication with Festool USA.  In summary, Festool is saying that both cutters appear authentic, and that they do manufacture cutters in Germany and Austria.

Hope this helps.

Here is the email exchange for those interested:

******************
Email from Me:

To Whom This May Concern,

Recently I purchased a set of cutters for my DF700 from an eBay merchant.  There were some inconsistencies with the location of the item, and where the shipment originated from, so I grew suspicious.

Upon receiving the items, I compared it to my existing cutters.  The existing cutters are from a Domino assortment set, and was purchased from a local authorized dealer (Woodcraft).

Is it possible to confirm whether I received counterfeit cutters?  If counterfeit, I would like to file a claim to get my money back.

There are several notable differences:

1.  Are DF700 cutters made in Germany and Austria?  The label on my new cutters read "Made In Germany", and the label is matte, and the ink looks smeared.  My legit cutters read "Made In Austria", and the label is glossy, and the print looks clean.  See attached photo

2.  The plastic packaging of the new cutters read "PVC", but the packaging of the existing cutters read "PP" as in polypropylene.  I'm an Engineer with some polymer experience, and this type of packaging is typically made from polypropylene or polyethylene, but certainly not PVC.  See attached photo

3.  The screen printing or the etching identifying the cutters look vastly different.  The label on the new cutters are faint, but my existing cutters have legible printing.  Again, please see attached photos

Sincerely,

**********************
They didn't repond after 4 or 5 days, so I followed up with a phone call and spoke with someone.  The CR said that my email was being handled by their manager and was being forwarded to Festool Germany.
**********************
Festool USA Email Response (names intentionally omitted):

Hello Mr. XXX,

I final received an answer from Germany.

To secure the supply we have 2 suppliers for the Domino cutters.

They both supply us with the same quality, and we can react more flexibly to the high demand.

How was your experience today?
Comment a été votre expérience aujourd'hui ?
Gold StarGreen LightYellow LightRed Light

Thank you,

Festool North America

400 N. Enterprise Blvd

Lebanon, IN 46052

Telephone 1-888-337-8600

E-mail: (US) customerservice@festoolusa.com

E-mail: (CA) customerservice@festoolcanada.com
*************************
My email reply to this:
Hello Ms XXXX,

Thank you for your response.

So Festool Germany is saying that the images I forwarded represent an authentic Festool cutter, and that no fake replicates were observed in the image?

Thank you
*************************
Festool USA Email Response (names intentionally omitted):
Hi XXX,

That is correct.

How was your experience today?
Comment a été votre expérience aujourd'hui ?
Gold StarGreen LightYellow LightRed Light

Thank you,

XXXX

Festool North America

400 N. Enterprise Blvd

Lebanon, IN 46052

Telephone 1-888-337-8600

E-mail: (US) customerservice@festoolusa.com

E-mail: (CA) customerservice@festoolcanada.com