Ebay Fraudulent Listing for Festool Accessories

[Mjolner174]

This may not be the right area to post this in, but I would like to warn other members about the current wave of scam listings on eBay for Festool accessories. I recently ordered some ratcheting quick clamps, clamping elements and rail guides from three different sellers and didn’t actually get a single one of them. All of these were priced at like 25 to 35% off their normal price, which seemed like a good discount, but was not such a high discount that I thought that this has to be too good to be true. The good news is that I’ve gotten all my money back, the bad news that is that I continue to see the same listings. They are all for accessories at about 25% to 35% off, from sellers with just a few positive feedback. I’ve picked up quite a few good deals on Festool items on eBay over the years, but I would urge everyone to be particularly careful right now when you’re looking at Festool accessories for under $100.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I just received an email from Woodpeckers about the same thing happening to their products.

 

[Ron B]

Thanks MJolner.  I am always leery if someone is selling expensive items with little feedback.  I noticed one seller selling Festool on E-bay in the last month with almost nil feedback.  Lack of feedback or feedback that looks like fluff stopped me from bidding. 

 

[TinyShop]

It's not just Festool products. The problem is rampant across the entire site. I spend more time fighting with unprofessional and, increasingly, fraudulent sellers then I do legit ones. The site has gone way down hil over the last several years. Buyer beware.

 

[cpw]

I see fraudulent Woodpeckers ads on Facebook at least once a week.  True Position has not quite as many scammers stealing their videos but I still see one every couple of months.

 

[bertv]

It also happens a lot on the Dutch eBay-site "Marktplaats" — there are even some self-appointed sheriffs there that warn users by placing ads with the names of scammers.
It’s too bad that a pretty good idea is being corrupted by criminals. And it should be a real problem for Mr eBay, because ultimately it’s gonna cost him if he doesn't more to stop the bstards.

 

[squall_line]

When I see 3 or 4 new eBay listings pop up for similar items, I always check to see who the seller is and how long they've been a member.  The pattern seems to be "Buy it Now" listings with enough of a discount and free shipping to coax someone into pulling the trigger.  The fact that nothing ever shows up and they never get paid as a result makes me wonder what the true end game is.

I'm 90% certain after reading this that I won't be getting either the Sys IV nor the Sys-Cart that I ordered recently, unfortunately, as I've received no shipping notices yet on either item.

The flip side is that there was a newer user recently posting a clearout of their wares before moving back to Europe.  They must have been a former dealer or sales rep, because they were selling a ton of Roadshow Swag among the power tools.  Big difference was that they were using auctions and they also responded to messages when questions were posed.  Hartville has been clearing out a bunch of clearance/returned stuff recently, too.

One of my friends posted one of those scam ads on Facebook recently, asking if anyone had used the jig and knew if it was any good.  The video was for the Woodpecker Drill Jig, which had been recently discussed here on the FOG, so I recognized it immediately.  I also recognized that it wasn't being listed by Woodpeckers and the price listing was 75-85% off of the true retail price.  I reported that ad and 3 or 4 more as scams using Facebook's reporting tools.  I haven't seen as many since I did that earlier this week, but that may just be Facebook's algorithms blocking them from my view.

 

[mino]

...
The fact that nothing ever shows up and they never get paid as a result makes me wonder what the true end game is.
...

The end game for the fakes is they are lower quality, cost pennies to procure and often the seller would have gotten them somewhere for a discount from their "fake" price.

The profit margin is enough so that if, say, 50% users get fooled and do not file returns, the seller is still in a plus before he has to fold the particular sock puppet account and needs a new one.

With the "never ship anything" it is often a fishing expedition.
The seller has no stock to begin, but puts up a fake listing. Testing the waters. If the fish rattle the net enough, will go ahead, procure the stock and pull the net per above. If the fish are too calm, not enough in the net for "statistics" to allow a profit, the "seller" will not bother with the catch, withdraws the net and moves to better seas.

The only defense here is to look for reputation, history, quantity of listings, etc. as with any auction site. And, is scammed, STRICTLY go for a refund etc. The more people force money returns -even when the fake is "functionally good enough"- the higher the threshold when the sellers will just not bother.

 

[GavsterUK]

Timely warning!
As a genuine Bricks and Mortar store with 45 years of trading under our belt we use Ebay for end of lines and ex demo stock mainly.

I always trust someone can jump on our store front and check us out.

BUT its rife at both ends due to covid and no signature deliveries etc Festool is a target for scammers trying to buy off our store online...think we've probably lost £10k in the last year or so...

As someone once said "just because your not paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you "

 

[squall_line]

I forgot to mention that another warning on these fake listings is when they only have stock photos, and nothing of the item itself, even just the unopened box.

While that single factor doesn't always make a listing fake, it is definitely a red flag, and is certainly the case for the items I reached out about last night.  I woke up this morning to both orders being cancelled, with a claim that a fire destroyed their warehouse and leaves them unable to ship (but apparently not unable to continue to post new items for sale).

Never thought it would happen to me, but thankfully my pride isn't so high that I won't self-report (another way that scammers keep their money; people are too ashamed to admit that they got taken in a scam).

 

[Coen]

think we've probably lost £10k in the last year or so...

How?

Where I live it's 99%... you pay first... shop ships it. No payment... no shipment.

 

[squall_line]

think we've probably lost £10k in the last year or so...

How?

Where I live it's 99%... you pay first... shop ships it. No payment... no shipment.

No signature, no proof of delivery, shipper and/or seller is responsible for refunding the purchase price for items that "never arrived" or were "reported stolen".

Some of the things are legitimately stolen, some of them are just claimed to be stolen and then re-sold after the refund is issued.

 

[Mjolner174]

I’ve thought that perhaps someone is counterfeiting these items, as they were all simple accessories. Maybe the end game is that this was market research to decide whether it would be worth it to counterfeit these items. In my situation I was amazed by how long the shipping times were, but on the other hand Festool is sold around the world and I figured that there would be no difference in these clamps if they were meant for the US or some other market.

Now I fear that someone has realized that there are a lot of crazy Americans who will snap up a ratcheting clamp for $28 like crazy as long as it has the right shade of green on it, so let’s fire up that factory that used to do the knock off Gucci handbags and start cranking out anything that says Festool on it.

 

[GavsterUK]

think we've probably lost £10k in the last year or so...

How?

Where I live it's 99%... you pay first... shop ships it. No payment... no shipment.

Stolen Card no's, massive problem for e-commerce exacerbated by covid and no signature required etc.

 

[Coen]

Next to nobody here pays by CC. Most shops charge extra for it.

 

[squall_line]

I've found paying by cash online to be a bit tricky, so all of my e-commerce purchases have been secured with a credit card.

I find it interesting to hear that places in Europe are heavy on cash instead of cards.  I was led to believe that the US was the "backwards, uncultured holdback" as far as sticking with cash payments and/or being slow to move to card payments (especially with chip readers).

 

[GavsterUK]

cash? whats that?  :we would get a handful of payments a week at most.
and we actively discourage it due to hefty processing fees at bank these days. Credit card/paypal/online payments make up most transactions for us online.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I've found paying by cash online to be a bit tricky, so all of my e-commerce purchases have been secured with a credit card.

I find it interesting to hear that places in Europe are heavy on cash instead of cards.  I was led to believe that the US was the "backwards, uncultured holdback" as far as sticking with cash payments and/or being slow to move to card payments (especially with chip readers).

Dunno what they call cash then for online, seems a bit tricky indeed, but here in Europe the bank transfer for online transactions is most popular. 

Credit cards and checks are pretty much outdated here, and we prefer not to use services like PayPal that require paying a percentage.

 

[Ron B]

Interesting.  I like the Europe/North America comparisons.

It is my belief that credit cards provide some protection and a bank transfer offers none.  I do not do bank transfers because I do not want my info to fall in the wrong hands.  I do not even pay bills on-line, so I understand I am old fashioned. 

My wife and I had a trip scheduled last year to do a WWII tour of Europe last year, starting in London, through Normandy, Paris, Bastogne, and ending in the Eagle's nest.  It was bought and paid for by credit card when Covid hit.  The touring group that we were going with vanished with our money. It took a few months but we did recover our money from the credit card company.  If it was a bank transfer, I would be whistling into the wind trying to get my money back. 

 

[Coen]

What info of yours? Your bank account number? What's that of any use to anyone?

Then you just end up paying more for everything which bottom line is more expensive for everyone. The CC company isn't run by garden gnomes.

The only time I got stiffed with bank transfer was when buying something from another private person... on marktplaats.nl...
Had I paid everything with CC, I would have paid more in CC fees than a bunch of the biggest purchases combined. And then there is the no-use base cost of having a CC... which in the last 20 years gave me a free OF1010  8) by not having a CC

So yeah, online payments here is mostly bank transfer. That is made easier by a system (iDEAL) where the shop sends it's ordernumber, accountnumber and amount to be charged to the bank, you login in at the bank, all info is already filled in correctly, you confirm and return to the webpage of the shop... done.

In person payments is mostly debit card here.

I don't even own a creditcard. Only needed it one time when I bought a Thinkpad motherboard from an American on eBay... and only noticed him only accepting CC after having already clicked "confirm buy"... I used my brother's CC. I do have Paypal, but their fees for sellers are insane.

I have worked in a shop, and I have answered calls from people wanting to pay by CC. It mostly went like this;
Me; "We don't offer CC payment because we don't want to deal with the hassle and the fees."
Caller; "Well, do you want to sell something?" {angry voice already}
Me; "Yes, and we offer a whole range of other payment methods, including paying the postman at delivery."
Caller; [some angry bullshit]
....