ETC-EC 150/3 or ETS-EC-150/5

[Steven Owen]

ETS-EC 150/5 is my general purpose sander of choice, and my favorite sander of the Festool lot.  I've found that you only start to notice a difference in finish quality between the /5 and the /3 starting at very high grits, like 400+

I have some Abranet paper on the way.  I’ll have a chance to test the Abranet on the clear cedar to see if I can get a better result with the ETS 125 250 W.  The 125 is really meant for fine finishing.  To take up the slack on grits where a ETS-EC 5 mm orbit does not perform well.

I have to make a choice between the DEROS 5 mm and the ETS-150-EC.  The ETS-EC is a better fit for a part time Woodworker who works on projects after already working a 8-10 shift. 

Sleeply heads and quick start paddles are not a good mix.

 

[Holmz]

ETS-EC 150/5 is my general purpose sander of choice, and my favorite sander of the Festool lot.  I've found that you only start to notice a difference in finish quality between the /5 and the /3 starting at very high grits, like 400+

I have some Abranet paper on the way.  I’ll have a chance to test the Abranet on the clear cedar to see if I can get a better result with the ETS 125 250 W.  The 125 is really meant for fine finishing.  To take up the slack on grits where a ETS-EC 5 mm orbit does not perform well.

I have to make a choice between the DEROS 5 mm and the ETS-150-EC.  The ETS-EC is a better fit for a part time Woodworker who works on projects after already working a 8-10 shift. 

Sleeply heads and quick start paddles are not a good mix.

Do you have examples photos of the projects?
Are they flat, or sculpted?

Worrying about the 1000gr finish work and a 2-mm orbit before the initial rough sanding, seems a bit like "putting the cart ahead of the horse". Hence the comment "you got the wrong sander". It may in fact be the right one, but it seems like it would be more like the right "#2 sander".

Opting to get the low powered finish sander, and then noting it does not have much power, seems like it could have been predicted?
But others that do a variety of work may know what sander is best.

 

[Steven Owen]

ETS-EC 150/5 is my general purpose sander of choice, and my favorite sander of the Festool lot.  I've found that you only start to notice a difference in finish quality between the /5 and the /3 starting at very high grits, like 400+

I have some Abranet paper on the way.  I’ll have a chance to test the Abranet on the clear cedar to see if I can get a better result with the ETS 125 250 W.  The 125 is really meant for fine finishing.  To take up the slack on grits where a ETS-EC 5 mm orbit does not perform well.

I have to make a choice between the DEROS 5 mm and the ETS-150-EC.  The ETS-EC is a better fit for a part time Woodworker who works on projects after already working a 8-10 shift. 

Sleeply heads and quick start paddles are not a good mix.

Do you have examples photos of the projects?
Are the flat, or sculpted?

Ear seems to be using his for everything, like it also do.
But I rarely go up beyond 400 so maybe that is why.
(Although I did take some Jarrah up to 600 or 800 but couldn't really see much fuss... It is a bit more porous than maple, cherry or walnut... So I don't think it needs to be too smooth)

I never use any grits above 320 for my projects.  I tired 400 but I’ve never noticed any real difference in the appearance.

 

[Pnw painter]

I'm a painting contractor and my sanding tasks range from stripping exterior window sills to scuff sanding between clear coats. Over the past 5 year I've purchased 5 Festool sanders because I've realized that they all serve a specific niche.

For a hobbiest woodworker or for projects around the house the ETS-EC 150-5 is probably the best general purpose sander in the Festool lineup. It really excels with abrasives in the 80-220 rage, which for most people are the probably the most commonly used abrasives. If I was only allowed to have one sander, this would be it.

The ETS125 is an excellent fine finish sander when you're using 220 or higher grits. You'll get frustrated using it for anything beyond scuff sanding between clears or the final sanding pass before you apply stains or sealers. It's painfully slow at removing material large amounts of material, but this is what makes it such an excellent fine finish sander.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steven Owen]

I'm a painting contractor and my sanding tasks range from stripping exterior window sills to scuff sanding between clear coats. Over the past 5 year I've purchased 5 Festool sanders because I've realized that they all serve a specific niche.

For a hobbiest woodworker or for projects around the house the ETS-EC 150-5 is probably the best general purpose sander in the Festool lineup. It really excels with abrasives in the 80-220 rage, which for most people are the probably the most commonly used abrasives. If I was only allowed to have one sander, this would be it.

The ETS125 is an excellent fine finish sander when you're using 220 or higher grits. You'll get frustrated using it for anything beyond scuff sanding between clears or the final sanding pass before you apply stains or sealers. It's painfully slow at removing material large amounts of material, but this is what makes it such an excellent fine finish sander.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hopefully my Abranet papers will arrive this week so I can test the ETS 125 on some varnishing tasks.  The ETS-EC-150/5 mm seems like a better fit for larger projects like tables and beds.  The 3 mm stoke might be a little slow on large projects. 

 

[yetihunter]

If I had to sell all of my sanders but one, I'd
definitely keep the ETS-EC 150/3, no debate.
I'm sure the 5mm stroke version, the 125 version
with a 150mm pad of a Mirka Deros would all
fit the same bill.

I do like my ets 125 (pro5), but it's
a nice addition and not a do-all. 
I use it with high grits between/after
finish or any time I need to be gentle or
the 150 is too large. 

I have most of the Festool sanders and
the ETS 150 EC and ETS 125/Pro5 get used
the most for woodworking. 

 

[Steven Owen]

If I had to sell all of my sanders but one, I'd
definitely keep the ETS-EC 150/3, no debate.
I'm sure the 5mm stroke version, the 125 version
with a 150mm pad of a Mirka Deros would all
fit the same bill.

I do like my ets 125 (pro5), but it's
a nice addition and not a do-all. 
I use it with high grits between/after
finish or any time I need to be gentle or
the 150 is too large. 

I have most of the Festool sanders and
the ETS 150 EC and ETS 125/Pro5 get used
the most for woodworking.

I would think the results would be between the 3 mm and 5 mm stoke in grits under 180 would be negligible.  It would simply decide on the removal rates.  At 220, 320, 400,  the smaller stroke would have more of a impact on grain clarity.   

I never understood the rationale for having a paddle speed control on a wood sander.  A paddle makes sense in fibreglass and metal.  You vary speeds constantly.  Most wood finish sanding is done with a constant speed letting the sander do work with only enough pressure to keep the sander under control. 

I don’t get the paddle on the Deros.  It’s not an air sander.  The speed dial makes more sense for wood sanding.  You set for the speed you want; that’s it.

 

[Holmz]

If I had to sell all of my sanders but one, I'd
definitely keep the ETS-EC 150/3, no debate.
I'm sure the 5mm stroke version, the 125 version
with a 150mm pad of a Mirka Deros would all
fit the same bill.

I do like my ets 125 (pro5), but it's
a nice addition and not a do-all. 
I use it with high grits between/after
finish or any time I need to be gentle or
the 150 is too large. 

I have most of the Festool sanders and
the ETS 150 EC and ETS 125/Pro5 get used
the most for woodworking.

I would think the results would be between the 3 mm and 5 mm stoke in grits under 180 would be negligible.  It would simply decide on the removal rates.  At 220, 320, 400,  the smaller stroke would have more of a impact on grain clarity.   

I never understood the rationale for having a paddle speed control on a wood sander.  A paddle makes sense in fibreglass and metal.  You vary speeds constantly.  Most wood finish sanding is done with a constant speed letting the sander do work with only enough pressure to keep the sander under control. 

I don’t get the paddle on the Deros.  It’s not an air sander.  The speed dial makes more sense for wood sanding.  You set for the speed you want; that’s it.

It is not something that requires a lot of cognitive load... You just push the paddle and the (DEROS) sander goes.
Maybe it doesn't make sense, but motorcycles, cars, sewing machines, battery powered drills almost all have a throttle of some sort... Either using the paws or the feet, or a thumb.

As far grain clarity goes, I am not sure... The 5-my looks pretty good, but then one cannot go too far astray with the 3-mm. It sort of depends on what "do it all" and "one sander" means... I.e mostly finish with some rough sanding, or mostly rough sanding with some finish sanding.

Neither one is a bad choice. Both have twice the power of the non EC version of an ETS, so they would arguably be faster and hence better if speed is a concern.

 

[Steven Owen]

If I had to sell all of my sanders but one, I'd
definitely keep the ETS-EC 150/3, no debate.
I'm sure the 5mm stroke version, the 125 version
with a 150mm pad of a Mirka Deros would all
fit the same bill.

I do like my ets 125 (pro5), but it's
a nice addition and not a do-all. 
I use it with high grits between/after
finish or any time I need to be gentle or
the 150 is too large. 

I have most of the Festool sanders and
the ETS 150 EC and ETS 125/Pro5 get used
the most for woodworking.

I would think the results would be between the 3 mm and 5 mm stoke in grits under 180 would be negligible.  It would simply decide on the removal rates.  At 220, 320, 400,  the smaller stroke would have more of a impact on grain clarity.   

I never understood the rationale for having a paddle speed control on a wood sander.  A paddle makes sense in fibreglass and metal.  You vary speeds constantly.  Most wood finish sanding is done with a constant speed letting the sander do work with only enough pressure to keep the sander under control. 

I don’t get the paddle on the Deros.  It’s not an air sander.  The speed dial makes more sense for wood sanding.  You set for the speed you want; that’s it.

It is not something that requires a lot of cognitive load... You just push the paddle and the (DEROS) sander goes.
Maybe it doesn't make sense, but motorcycles, cars, sewing machines, battery powered drills almost all have a throttle of some sort... Either using the paws or the feet, or a thumb.

As far grain clarity goes, I am not sure... The 5-my looks pretty good, but then one cannot go too far astray with the 3-mm. It sort of depends on what "do it all" and "one sander" means... I.e mostly finish with some rough sanding, or mostly rough sanding with some finish sanding.

Neither one is a bad choice. Both have twice the power of the non EC version of an ETS, so they would arguably be faster and hence better if speed is a concern.

The paddle on an air sander control airflow and speed.  I was wondering if the paddle on the Deros is controlling speed (removal rate) or if it’s simply turning the sander on and off when you press it.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Don't know about the Deros paddle but the on the Ceros the paddle is also a speed control. Push a little for slow and all the way for full speed which also means more pressure if you simply laying your hand on the top of the tool. So, if you lay hand lightly on top of sander the speed is less than full. Since there is a separate speed control I think I'd rather have full speed with any depression of paddle

Not sure I like that but you can also wrap fingers around the yellow rubber collar and press the paddle with thumb to avoid pushing tool into work.

 

[Holmz]

...

The paddle on an air sander control airflow and speed.  I was wondering if the paddle on the Deros is controlling speed (removal rate) or if it’s simply turning the sander on and off when you press it.

I am not sure how you could have the strong opinion on how the paddle makes no sense not knowing how it works, or even having used one?

I have used the snowmobile, car, motorcycle and sewing machine analogies for the throttle.

A throttle is different than a switch.

A throttle is not a speed control, but rather a power level control or torque level control.

 

[peter halle]

...

The paddle on an air sander control airflow and speed.  I was wondering if the paddle on the Deros is controlling speed (removal rate) or if it’s simply turning the sander on and off when you press it.

I am not sure how you could have the strong opinion on how the paddle makes no sense not knowing how it works, or even having used one?

I have used the snowmobile, car, motorcycle and sewing machine analogies for the throttle.

A throttle is different than a switch.

A throttle is not a speed control, but rather a power level control or torque level control.

Is there perhaps something else that should have been quoted here?  I am not seeing a strong opinion.

Peter

 

[Steven Owen]

...

The paddle on an air sander control airflow and speed.  I was wondering if the paddle on the Deros is controlling speed (removal rate) or if it’s simply turning the sander on and off when you press it.

I am not sure how you could have the strong opinion on how the paddle makes no sense not knowing how it works, or even having used one?

I have used the snowmobile, car, motorcycle and sewing machine analogies for the throttle.

A throttle is different than a switch.

A throttle is not a speed control, but rather a power level control or torque level control.

I don’t have a strong opinion for or against the paddle.  I like being able to place my hand and hold it in different potions on the sander depending on the task I’m doing.  The Festool EC appears to have more flexibility on hand placement over the Deros.

With Festool, I can go to my local dealer and see how the tool feels in my hand.  With Deros, I would need to travel to Toronto to visit the nearest dealer to test drive a Deros. 

They’re both great sanders.  I think it really comes down to which design you feel more comfortable using.  I’ve been asking around trying to find a Deros in Edmonton I can try.  Half the time when say Mirka, I need to pull out my phone out to show someone what I’m talking about.

 

[semenza]

...

The paddle on an air sander control airflow and speed.  I was wondering if the paddle on the Deros is controlling speed (removal rate) or if it’s simply turning the sander on and off when you press it.

I am not sure how you could have the strong opinion on how the paddle makes no sense not knowing how it works, or even having used one?

I have used the snowmobile, car, motorcycle and sewing machine analogies for the throttle.

A throttle is different than a switch.

A throttle is not a speed control, but rather a power level control or torque level control.

  It may be true that the throttle controls the power and or torque, but ultimately (other conditions being the same) the speed will go up or down also. Unless you have a very odd snowmobile, car, motorcycle, or sewing machine.

  I also think it is possible to have a general idea of how a paddle will feel compared to a on/off switch without actually using one.  And with a little discussion input I think it is possible to have a good idea of the feel. Otherwise why bother researching anything before you buy it?

Seth

 

[rljatl]

My understanding is that the Deros paddle can be set up to work in two different ways.

1. Paddle acts as an on/off switch.  Hold it down and it runs at a predetermined speed.  Anything other than all the way down and the sander stops.  It has + and – buttons rather than a dial to adjust the speed between 4000 RPM and 10,000 RPM.

2. The paddle controls the speed depending on how hard you push down on the paddle. 

See page 9 of the operating manual.
Mirka Deros Manual

I just purchased the Festool ETS EC 125 3mm plus 150mm hard pad.  Festool has removed the "150mm" stamp from all of the parts visible under the pad on the 125mm EC version.  Funny how fast Festool was to change that and so slow to fix anything else.

 

[Steven Owen]

My understanding is that the Deros paddle can be set up to work in two different ways.

1. Paddle acts as an on/off switch.  Hold it down and it runs at a predetermined speed.  Anything other than all the way down and the sander stops.  It has + and – buttons rather than a dial to adjust the speed between 4000 RPM and 10,000 RPM.

2. The paddle controls the speed depending on how hard you push down on the paddle. 

I just purchased the Festool ETS EC 125 3mm plus 150mm hard pad.  Festool has removed the "150mm" stamp from all of the parts visible under the pad on the 125mm EC version.  Funny how fast Festool was to change that and so slow to fix anything else.

Thanks Rob.  This clears things up about the Deros.  I’ve watched a lot of videos on the Deros and you had one guy saying the paddle would control the speed and others saying the handle simply acted as an on/off switch.

None of the You Tube video explained the paddle clearly.  I was concerned the paddle would override the chosen speed settings regardless of what speed was selected using the +/- buttons.

 

[Trosey]

IMO,

The term "throttle" should NOT have come up in this thread. That is a totally different thing by definition.

I have a Mirka CEROS 650, yes the one with the transformer. No, not one that had a serial number that was on the recall list, years back.

I just came back in from the shop after a test run. The below is fact, not assuming or remembering.

On the Mirka CEROS 650 that I have owned and used for years, with the -/+ button toggled all the way down to the lowest speed, the paddle acts as an on/off switch. Period.

Once a user toggles the speed up with the -/+ button, then the paddle becomes a variable speed control in addition to on and off.

This is not hearsay. I tested it in the last thirty minutes. It is by far the best ROS that I have ever used. Plenty of power. I have bad wrists and no vibration problems at all.

HTH

 

[rljatl]

Page 9, from the DEROS manual:

"The tool has two speed control modes. In the default mode the speed can be adjusted linearly by changing the
position of the lever. In the other mode the speed remains fixed at the set max RPM when the tool is running. When
the RPM+ and RPM– buttons are pressed simultaneously the tool toggles between the two controlling modes."

 

[Steven Owen]

Thanks Rob and Trosey.

Your posts cleared-up a lot of things about the Deros.  A lot these functions aren’t covered in any  of the online reviews and videos. 

 

[Holmz]

IMO,

The term "throttle" should NOT have come up in this thread. That is a totally different thing by definition.

I have a Mirka CEROS 650, yes the one with the transformer. No, not one that had a serial number that was on the recall list, years back.

I just came back in from the shop after a test run. The below is fact, not assuming or remembering.

On the Mirka CEROS 650 that I have owned and used for years, with the -/+ button toggled all the way down to the lowest speed, the paddle acts as an on/off switch. Period.

Once a user toggles the speed up with the -/+ button, then the paddle becomes a variable speed control in addition to on and off.

This is not hearsay. I tested it in the last thirty minutes. It is by far the best ROS that I have ever used. Plenty of power. I have bad wrists and no vibration problems at all.

HTH

The DEROS I have...
- Goes slowly when the paddle is depressed a little bit.
- When it is depressed more it goes faster.
- When it spins pushed all the way down the it goes at the maximum that the +/- LEDs are set to.

Then pushing onto the work it slows, and going lightly it speeds up.

Maybe throttle is not the right word, but it is similar to how the car works in that with a hill or a headwind the thing slows up when the load is increased and the throttle maintained at a constant position.

... All that aside, it probably makes sense to get the ETS/EC if one prefers using a switch. Or at least it make sense to me  [embarassed]