ETS 125 disappointment:(

[sinbad]

My first post here and unfortunately not a positive one
I am a huge fan of Festool and own several Festool tools.  I have to say though that the Festool missed the mark on the ETS 125.  I have read a bunch of threads here about this sander and I know I am not alone on my disappointment.  I am a huge fan of German tools and machines and am willing to spend more for the quality.  But, my worn out PC 5" ROS still outperforms the ETS 125.  The problem is the pad does not really rotate.  This sander is basically a "vibrating" sander.  I think I bought one of those from Sears 25 years ago?  I took my sander back to a Festool Service center in Honolulu (Woodcraft) and the tech. said there is nothing wrong with it and showed me a new one that does the same thing... or I should say does NOT do the same thing which is rotate.  The pad rotates by vibration only.  If you barely hold the pad, it stops rotating.  Of course, if you place the sander on a surface, it stops rotating. 

What ROS doesn't rotate?  What quality tool needs to be hung from a rope and run for 10 hours to be broken in (as I have read here)?  And I don't buy the..."let the sander do the sanding thing by not putting pressure on it"  And another myth I have read here is... "you need to use the right sander for the right job".  I have used my PC 5"ROS for sanding from 80 to 800 grit  sandpaper and all the way up to 4000 grit Abralon pads for polishing lacquered finishes.  If an old 5" PC sander can do all that, shouldn't a Festool 5" sander? 

I love Festool, just not a big fan of the ES 125. 

 

[Stone Message]

I know that they are more expensive but return your ETS and get a Rotex. I have the Rotex 90 and Rotex 150 - they are both astonishing. The little RO90 has the delta capability as well.

Peter

 

[Brice Burrell]

Welcome to the FOG and sorry to hear about the disappointment.  As you mentioned you are not alone in this regard.  I don't share your feelings but I certainly understand if it isn't the right tool for you.  I hope you are still inside the 30 day return period.  Peter may be on the right track with the Rotex line if you are still interested in a Festool sander.

Sinbad while the following is sort of a rebuttal to your comments this isn't directed specifically to you but rather the general audience here.  I'm not trying to convince you to give this sander another chance if your mind is made up. 

Picking the right sander for the job and letting the sander do the work are some of the key principals Festool has build their sanding line on.  Most of Festool's sanders are geared towards specific tasks.  This allows them to excel at what they do but also can reduce the range of applications they are best suited for.  The Rotex sanders on the other hand are all purpose and the ETS150/5 fits this category too. 

You'll get the best results form letting the sanders do the work.  This isn't a theory, it's fact.  You can get satisfactory results pushing a sander at least some of the time.  That doesn't change the fact that optimum results for the Festool sanders are achieved by using the sander as intended, without pushing.             

 

[AlexThePalex]

As someone who has done quite a few square meters with the ETS 125, even this week, I can safely say your disappointment is based on a misconception.

Of course, Festool is partly to blame for this. When the ETS is not broken in, it lacks a lot of power. This is a bad business decision by Festool to bring these sanders out like this. What happens is that the brushes are not properly seated because they don't have the right shape yet. Fitting something square to something round. After using the sander for a good 8 to 10 hours this should correct itself. Only then will the ETS 125 get it's full power. But it's logical for new owners to think there's something amiss here. They blame the sander, and are disappointed. Festool should have prevented this by breaking the sanders in in the factory. Or make the brushes differently.

But secondly, you mention you have read a bunch of threads here about it. Frankly, you'd think you'd know what to expect then. You'd think you'd have read about the brushes. You'd also think you'd have read about this sander not being the most powerful of sanders, but mostly a fine finish sander. And that you can not simply say "my other sander did this, why doesn't this one do it like that". It has all been talked about a lot before.

I've got the ETS 125 for 3 years now, and it's not my most used sander, but when I use it it does what a sander should do, all the time. Sand, without question. That mark certainly has not been missed by Festool.  
         

 

[WPeters]

Picking the right sander for the job and letting the sander do the work are some of the key principals Festool has build their sanding line on.  Most of Festool's sanders are geared towards specific tasks.  This allows them to excel at what they do but also can reduce the range of applications they are best suited for.  The Rotex sanders on the other hand are all purpose and the ETS150/5 fits this category too. 

You'll get the best results form letting the sanders do the work.  This isn't a theory, it's fact.  You can get satisfactory results pushing a sander at least some of the time.  That doesn't change the fact that optimum results for the Festool sanders are achieved by using the sander as intended, without pushing.               

This has been my experience also.  Today in the shop I used the RO 150, ETS 150, and the ETS125.  They each performed beautifully on their assigned task..  However if i would have tried to use the ETS 125 for what I was using the RO 150 for it would not have been satisfactory at all!  Just keep this in consideration when using the sanders.  If you're going to return the 125, and don't need the RO 150 or 90, I would say try the ETS 150.  Its a fantastic finish sander! 

 

[JayStPeter]

I replaced a PC 5" ROS with the ETS150/5.  It is a waay better sander than the PC.

After playing around at some Festool booths, I'd like a RO150.  If I was to get a "finish" sander, maybe the DTS400.  Never been impressed with the ETS125, the RO125 is excellent though.

 

[peter halle]

First - you are entitled to your opinions and I will not try to change them.

What strikes me as interesting is that it is well known about the brushes and the burn in time and I am surprised that by what you wrote it seems that the dealer didn't know about it.

You had an issue that could very possibly have been caused by that and then the dealer showed you a new one that did the same.  That one - if new or not operated for a period of time -  would of course exhibit the same characteristics.

So the result is that you feel badly about a tool that quite possibly might have met your expectations if...

Peter

 

[skids]

My first post here and unfortunately not a positive one
I am a huge fan of Festool and own several Festool tools.  I have to say though that the Festool missed the mark on the ETS 125.  I have read a bunch of threads here about this sander and I know I am not alone on my disappointment.  I am a huge fan of German tools and machines and am willing to spend more for the quality.  But, my worn out PC 5" ROS still outperforms the ETS 125.  The problem is the pad does not really rotate.  This sander is basically a "vibrating" sander.  I think I bought one of those from Sears 25 years ago?  I took my sander back to a Festool Service center in Honolulu (Woodcraft) and the tech. said there is nothing wrong with it and showed me a new one that does the same thing... or I should say does NOT do the same thing which is rotate.  The pad rotates by vibration only.  If you barely hold the pad, it stops rotating.  Of course, if you place the sander on a surface, it stops rotating. 

What ROS doesn't rotate?  What quality tool needs to be hung from a rope and run for 10 hours to be broken in (as I have read here)?  And I don't buy the..."let the sander do the sanding thing by not putting pressure on it"  And another myth I have read here is... "you need to use the right sander for the right job".  I have used my PC 5"ROS for sanding from 80 to 800 grit   sandpaper and all the way up to 4000 grit Abralon pads for polishing lacquered finishes.  If an old 5" PC sander can do all that, shouldn't a Festool 5" sander? 

I love Festool, just not a big fan of the ES 125. 

Can I ask what the project was?

 

[Kev]

In Oz we have "Premium Festool" dealers ... if I ask about a tool, they counter with "what do you want to do with it?"

I'd never walk away from my dealer with the wrong tool for the job - they just wouldn't let it happen. I believe the same could be said for asking a question of the FOG. I can also see that to be the case with many of the Festool dealers that contribute to this forum.

I wish your first post here had been a question rather than a sad retrospective  [unsure]

[welcome]

Kev

 

[Scott B.]

Clearly, he bought the wrong sander. The ets is a finish sander. Must be he was not on finish sanding tasks. That would be the beauty of the 30 day return. Take it back. As Peter Parfitt suggested, try a Rotex on for size. Or, a RAS. Find the right one.

While I love the ETS within its intended skill set, if I had to, say, strip a deck with it, I think I would rather pluck my eyebrows out. Its just not an aggressive enough sander for alot of tasks. But you don't have to look to far to find one that kicks some gluteus max if that is what you are after.

 

[MrToolJunkie]

Sorry about your experience, but that is one of the reasons that Festool gives you the chance to try it out risk free for 30 days.  If you like the 5 inch size, I would give it a little longer to break in -- there is more than brushes that need to seat -- the bearings also need to break in and my guess is that the tool will smooth out and increase in power.  I had the same experience with my DTS400, but after the break in it is awesome and one of my favorite sanders (same motor as the ETS125, I believe).

Also, not sure what you were sanding, but if you could elaborate as others have suggested we might be able to give you some different options more suited to the task at hand. 

Scot

 

[TinyTiger]

Hi Sinbad.  Welcome to the forum!

Sorry to hear about your less than satisfactory experience.  I do hope you take it back and get what works better for you and what you're doing.  Let us know what you end up with.

 

[sinbad]

Thanks for the replies everyone. 
I'll try to answer some of the questions:
I only discovered this Forum today when I googled "Festool ETS 125".  I usually research everything before I buy but after being so satisfied with all the Festool tools I have purchased over the years, I just assumed the ETS 125 purchase was a no-brainer. 
I did not even use my new sander for over the 30 day trial period.  Again, I just assumed I would be more than satisfied with anything Festool.  So I am basically stuck with it. 
I make boxes and tables specializing in Marquetry.  I have been making and selling Jewelry boxes, and recently humidors in galleries and stores in various states but mostly in Hawaii.  I work with mostly Koa wood.  I have been finishing my work with NC lacquer for the last ten years but have been experimenting with Tung Oil finishes using the Beale buffing system on my smaller/cheaper koa boxes.  Since I do a lot of very precise sanding when dealing with my marquetry panels, I have learned to be pretty intimate with a ROS.  Anyone who does marquetry knows how easy it is to sand through 1/32's thick veneer panels that you worked on for hours and hours. 
My finishing schedule includes apx 4 pore/gap filing applications of epoxy with sanding using 400 grit pads in between.  I then spray NC lacquer, wait at least a week then sand with 600 to level then up to 4000 to polish.  I have used the aforementioned PC sander for all these steps. 
To see my work visit my website at sincerbeaux.com
I have worked in professional cabinet shops and furniture shops since I was 16.  I have taken courses from some of the most revered master craftsman, luthiers, and finishers in the country to include Paul Schurch, and Jeff Jewitt.  I know a little bit about woodworking 

A few of you guys say that after apx ten hours of break in time, the sander gains more power?  I don't see/feel a power problem with this sander.  My problem is the pad doesn't turn with any authority.  In fact it basically just vibrates?  It is like your car is running full speed with the clutch fully in (not engaged).  So are you guys saying the PAD will be more engaged and turn more after the break-in time? 

My experience with this sander has been sanding two small marquetry panels starting at 180 grit up to 800 grit Festool discs.  Each time I felt like the sander was barely sanding.  I turned the dust collection off to verify it actually was.  Again, it was like using a vibrating sander.  Very slow.... very unimpressed. 

Thank you all so much for your comments and help.  I am happy I found this forum and promise not to be so negative  Let's talk Festool Routers.  I have two and didn't have to turn them on for ten hours to be impressed  hehe

Aloha!
John

 

[Ends of the World]

I have an ETS 125 and love the thing, so long as you're using it for fine finishing. One thing I've noticed on mine is that it doesn't rotate until you set it down onto the surface, lift it back up and it stops spinning. Also have to use a gentle touch, if you force it down too much, that will stop it too. Anyway, if yours doesn't rotate PERIOD, I'd give a call to Festool first. I've seen a Rotex 125 story before where someone was very disappointed in it's performance and ranted online, only to later send it to Festool to find out something was indeed wrong with it...they came back to the thread later to state it was now a dramatically different sander.

 

[Svar]

I looked up your website, Sinbad. Wow, just wow! You certainly know your sanding. I suggest anyone who is going to respond along “you are doing it wrong” lines go check it out first.

 

[Timtool]

Hi Sinbad,
I used to hate my ETS125 for the same reasons as you, and i complained extensively about it. But over time it sort of seems to have "matured" and when used for the right applications it now is a good little sander.
I chose the ETS125 based on pad size only and expected it to work like a general use 5" sander, because i was used to 5 inch sanders, you maybe did so for the same reasons. But i learned there is more than the pad size, with it's mere 200W and 2mm stroke it should have hinted me that this was a light duty sander and certainly not a general use sander.
The "not spinning" thing goes away over time, but is encouraged by the vac suction. It must be turned all the way to minimal suction (what vac do you use?) i find that even my old CT22 on lowest setting sucks a bit too much and on large flat smooth surfaces tends to stall the ETS125.

Others have suggested a Rotex, i think those ones may disappoint you even more in Festool.  They excel at extreme applications, but for all the rest i am really glad to have an ETS150 and DTS400 which i think is the optimal combination to start with. I don't recall ever reading complaints about those two.

 

[Kev]

To see my work visit my website at sincerbeaux.com

Very nice work.

I'm thinking a RO90 could be a friend to you ... you obviously are the sort of guy that will develop a level of mastery / intimacy with a tool. If you've knocked out that stuff with a 5" PC, a small ROTEX could be a serious option ... all that said, you may just be an ideal candidate for an aggressive little 5" Mirka !

 

[peter halle]

Very nice work on your website. I love the turtles!

I did some searching and reading during the night.  When the ETS125 was brought out in 2009 there were changes made to the brake pad to decrease the instances of what you are experiencing.  Additional holes were added to it.  It was suggested that sander speed adjustments and suction reduction could also help.  Before you give up on the sander, whereas it is outside the 30 days, why not hang it from the rafters in the one position for 8 to 10 hours and see if that helps with the power (mating the brushes) and also wearing down the pad brake (rotation).  Then try it out with the suction reduced all the way and slowly increase it until you feel, hear, or see the rotation stop, then back it off.  In the classes we have done that to find the sanders' happy place.

Of course you also have the Festool Service department and their Application Specialists available to you via email and phone.

Please let us know how it all works out.

Peter

 

[butzla]

Welcome Sinbad! Give it some more time. I had the same gripe as yours when I bought mine. I'm certain if you went to a well informed dealer and told them you make jewelry boxes they will still put the 125 in your hands. I make a few myself and while I use the RO150 and ETS 150 for the sides, the ETS125 is great for the top aprons if you are using a raised panel. As others have said there is a break in period but what I found works the best is to make sure you have the speed of your CT turned down to 1/4 power. The suction on the CT is so great at full blast it will make the sander stick to the work surface, preventing it from spinning. Because of the small surface area on the 125, it will also make it "buck". Turning the volume down eliminates this. Lastly, if this is your first time using a Festool sander, there is no more need to bear down on your sander. A very light touch is all that is required. Lay your hand on top of a table and rest it. This is the pressure you want.

 

[Sparktrician]

I bought the ETS 125 with the knowledge that it is a finish sander, not an all-purpose, one size fits all sander.  If I need a more aggressive sander, out comes the RO 125 or the RO 90 (or even the RAS in some cases).  The nice thing about the ETS 125 is that it shares abrasives with the RO 125, so I don't have to have a huge investment in incompatible abrasives.  The ETS 125 shines at what it was designed to do (once it's broken in fully).  I'd suggest that you let it break in, now that it's off the 30-day return period.  I think you may see a different side of it then, and if not, you can sell it on the FOG and recoup most of your purchase price easily.