festool cordless tools pointless?

[Cheese]

My question is why would someone, lets say for example sake buy the cordless version of the ts55 when the corded version is quite a lot cheaper and has the same (if not more) mobility than the cordless version as the cable can be run in the vacuum hose's sleeve on the corded version..

I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?

I use both the HKC and the TSC with bags which do quite well when they're attached. It's surprising how little dust gets away. The real issue is that they need to be emptied frequently but that just points out how good the dust bag works. Also the TSC seems to have more power than my TS 55...that TS needs to go down the road.  [smile]

I also like the cordless sanders for some applications, say drawer fronts or drawer interiors. In the past I used an ETS 125 & DTS 400 for those chores hooked to a CT 22. Everytime I switched sanders, I had to switch hoses. Then when I changed grits, I'd have to remove the hose again to vacuum the residual dust.
Now, I just keep bags on the ETSC 125 & DTSC 400 and swap between them constantly, no hose to remove & reinstall. When I want to change grits the vacuum is already freed up for use.

 

[semenza]

     

      I thought it was a good question too, and one that I think I asked myself a long time ago. Which is why I gave some examples of why someone might want cordless with a hose attached or the option to attach a hose.

    In addition cordless has the option to be used  both  ways.  You can always take the cordless to a non-power spot even if it is used in the shop connected to a hose most of the time. Or to make a one off cut in the back yard, or to sand a new fence board on your property line for five minutes. But the other way around does not work without running extension cords and hauling out the vac.

    There are lots of pros and cons such as weight , power, handling, price, etc. but the question is --- why cordless tools that hook to a vacuum?

      People use tools and work in different ways and situations. Pretty sure that is one reason Festool offers many of the tools in corded and cordless configurations.

Seth

 

[six-point socket II]

I will share my personal view on this with you.

I work around my house & garden and setup shop wherever I need to work. While I have a basement workshop, I mostly setup shop on the patio from March to October.

On the majority of "every day tasks" it would take me longer to run an extension cord, connect everything than it takes me to do the task with a cordless tool that comes out of it Systainer ready to go.

A TSC works flawless with the dust bag in its scope of delivery, is dust collection as good as when connected to a dust extractor? No. But good enough to not pose an unnecessary health risk in terms of escaping dust and good enough to not require hours of cleaning afterwards. So very often I only use the TSC with it's dust bag. Especially outdoors on my patio, in the shed, (...).

A sander's life can be immensely extended when used with a dust extractor as the "turbine blades" get cleaned better and the dust extractor's air stream cools down the internals additionally. The dust of a sander is finer than that of a TSC or Carvex so it's more airborne and therefore you are better off catching that with a dust extractor. That said, my first ever sanding with a Festool DTS was the whole outer shell of a shed - completely done with just the old style filter bags, relying solely on the "turbine" of the sander. And that wasn't a bad experience. Now, when I have to sand I lot, I always make sure the power cord of my sander forms a solid unit with my dust extraction hose by using velcro straps.

Problem solving tools like Carvex, OSC, (...) are often used in cramped spaces, cordless freedom is exactly what you want then. Yet they can be used with dust extraction when that makes sense, the surroundings ask for it - and there is enough space or when they are used for prolonged times.

I don't know how other people use their Carvex (jig saw), but when I use it for a longer time, I tend to use it like a "sportsman" who can play his game with both feet/hands. So one moment I'm cutting upside down with my right hand, then I might switch to my left hand and cut from above. I love not having to "worry" about a cord. And please believe me when I say it's a massive difference if its a power cord or a dust extraction hose thats attached to a tool. I have far less trouble with an attached dust extraction hose than with an attached power cord. And now that Festool offers the smooth hoses for quite some time, it got even easier to guide the hose and have it slide effortlessly on the workpiece or over rails.

Personally I wouldn't want it any other way - and I'm very happy with every cordless tool choice I made, be it Festool or any other make I use.

I don't have a crystal ball, I don't know about Festool's future - but let's just say - they probably will never be a "full range supplier" like Milwaukee, Bosch, DeWalt, (...). And especially not in terms of cordless tools.

I personally don't care if a tool is cheaper when it's corded, if price (to an extent) was a concern for me, I wouldn't buy Festool in first place. And probably also wouldn't buy cordless - as cordless always means keeping an inventory of batteries, replacing worn units and so on. It might even go as far as replacing a whole "system" because it's no longer supported and you don't have a trusted source for battery refurbishment.

I also don't own any tool where I'd say its "missing" power compared to a corded variant.

Again, YMMV. But to me, cordless does not exclude dust extraction per se. And a dust extraction hose does not bother to the same extent that power cords can/do - again, especially with the smooth, flexible hoses that are Festool's standard this day.

Kind regards,
Oliver

I'm not sure I'm getting the point of your post?

Festool offers various tools, corded and cordless, various dust extraction hoses including those that are paired with a plug it cable - but usually the extractors come with regular hoses without the added plug it cable. Dust extractors also come with a regular outlet to connect any tool you want to, and have bluetooth functionality so you can pair the battery of your Festool cordless tool with the vacuum and use auto-start. On top of that, Festool offers a bluetooth remote that can be attached to the dust extractor's hose and start/stop the vacuum as well. Which is great for non-Festool cordless tools, and countless dust-extraction accessories.

So what makes you think Festool cordless tools are pointless? Is this a question related to attaching the hose, thinking if there's a hose there could be as well a cable?

From my experience, you still profit greatly from a cordless tool even when connected to a dust extraction hose. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Hi Oliver,

my question is why would someone, lets say for example sake buy the cordless version of the ts55 when the corded version is quite a lot cheaper and has the same (if not more) mobility than the cordless version as the cable can be run in the vacuum hose's sleeve on the corded version..

I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?

 

[six-point socket II]

While I still don't have a functioning crystal ball,   and maybe there will be a cordless Festool dust extractor in future, my personal opinion is that Festool was smarter to bring the SYS-Powerstation which can power both a dust extractor and tool for a whole working day. Or let you charge plenty of batteries on one charge.

No I haven't had my hands on one, probably like everyone else with few exceptions - but if it can reliable deliver what Festool claims it can - it's a game changer for anyone needing sanders, concrete grinders, half-stationary machinery + dust extraction in a remote location or on a site without power supply for prolonged times. It simply beats having to show up with 10+ charged batteries everyday - when one (or maybe two) big batteries like the SYS-Powerstation will get you through the day.

Now, unless there's a really great offer I probably won't get the SYS-Powerstation, simply because my actual need for one isn't there. I would have bought it, or would buy it, if I started all over again on remodeling a house - but not in my current situation where I'm done for the most part. So I might still eye cordless dust extractor.

But if I was doing commercial work, I'd get the SYS-Powerstation in a heart beat, to power my regular Festool dust extractor.

Looking at the run times of currently available L/M - Hepa class cordless dust extractors, SYS-Powerstation + regular corded Festool dust extractor (+ tool) - beats all of them. And in a small package compared to running a generator or Bosch's latest offering in terms of a rechargeable battery pack to run corded tools off.

SYS-Powerstation comes at a price - but that's relativized when compared to the price of a cordless half-stationary tool and cordless dust extractor + enough batteries to power both through a full working day of use.

Kind regards,
Oliver

I read about the pros and cons of cordless versus corded tools with interest. it's a good point about the mismatch of a cordless tool with dust extractor. I think if Festool offered a cordless dust extractor it would be a better match.

Another solution is of course having the dust collection bag on the tool like som sanders offer as an accessory and the TSC and HKC, not as good as an external extractor but workable.

Finally many operations can be performed with handtools which often don't generate as much dust if you need mobility, I'm thinking here planing, hand sanding with an ergonomic block small touch ups. using a rasp, chiseling, drilling in softwood with a cordless drill doesn't generate annoying dust either.

 

[mrboult]

Well for me I have the TS55 and I'm happy with that. I use it with DC all the time and when it goes I'll buy the same again.

However, sometimes power isn't available or your working with a skeleton collection of tools at a location and being battery powered for a quick cut or a small job outside can be very handy.

So when the HK Saws were released I got the HKC. It is a great back up saw, and very useful to be able to perform track based cuts on the fly without power.

But then I got the FSK rail for it and started to prefer taking the HKC than the TS55 for certain jobs as the multi rail fi=unctions/options and free hand operation of the HKC were a benefit on certain jobs.

So when Festool released the bluetooth equipped Mini/Midi vacs having the option to use the HKC with Auto DC attached became a great option. . . .

Horses for courses as always. There are lots of options and you just need to decide what is right for you.

 

[DeformedTree]

While I still don't have a functioning crystal ball,   and maybe there will be a cordless Festool dust extractor in future, my personal opinion is that Festool was smarter to bring the SYS-Powerstation which can power both a dust extractor and tool for a whole working day. Or let you charge plenty of batteries on one charge.

I agree those "power stations" not just Festool are going to be big.  Having 1-2 of those you charge up at night verses remembering to pop 10-30 batteries all in their chargers when you get home for the night is a big change.  The battery powered tools are still going to be nice for the reasons folks mention.  But having one giant battery you can use for all your tools and not just Festool stuff will be a big shift.  Being able to run stuff that doesn't come in battery versions too.  So much other stuff you can use them for outside of tools too.

It's way to easy with cordless to forget to pop them in their chargers while your working and before you know if, you got 5 batteries, all are dead, or they have some juice but can't muster for a high power draw task.

 

[Imemiter]

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?

I think there's an app that'll track the power levels and whatnot. But this question opens the floor to the mind expanding utility of the Bluetooth Button.

With the Button you get fast access to vacuum switching using cordless tools from any brand. I'll even use it with corded tools sometimes. Like say when I just need a quick cut but don't want to climb under the workbench to plug into the vacuum. I can plug into whatever outlet is closest to me and switch on the vac from the Button. The BT Button is the real "as One" answer in a way that the Plug-it really isn't. The Plug-it, even with the hose sleeve, is actually still a two part operation. Cordless tools make it one, but additionally (with dust bags,) they free us from the struggle and constraint of cords and hoses altogether. Freedom is the point.  [laughing]

 

[squall_line]

Festool are indeed trying.. to satisfy even the most demanding of us.
If one can’t decide, there’s an obvious place to start with Festool:  [big grin]

Corded
Cordless
With dust bag
Without dust bag
With dust collector
Without dust collector:
[attachimg=1]
Sure, it can be used as a sanding block too.

The RTSC Kit (Set?) was something I felt comfortable buying as a cordless especially because of the versatility you mention.  It helped, too, that the reviews said that it was just as balanced with the power adapter "battery" as with an actual battery.

I also got the little hand block with dust collection, too, because it was much more comfortable to use as a sanding block than the RTSC, but once I added the hose and a systainer I was in for almost as much as the bare tool RTSC.

 

[squall_line]

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?

I think there's an app that'll track the power levels and whatnot. But this question opens the floor to the mind expanding utility of the Bluetooth Button.

With the Button you get fast access to vacuum switching using cordless tools from any brand. I'll even use it with corded tools sometimes. Like say when I just need a quick cut but don't want to climb under the workbench to plug into the vacuum. I can plug into whatever outlet is closest to me and switch on the vac from the Button. The BT Button is the real "as One" answer in a way that the Plug-it really isn't. The Plug-it, even with the hose sleeve, is actually still a two part operation. Cordless tools make it one, but additionally (with dust bags,) they free us from the struggle and constraint of cords and hoses altogether. Freedom is the point.  [laughing]

I was using my "contractor cleaning kit" last night to sweep up the garage floor.  I still have the old Mini but I've seen enough demonstrations of "The Button" to know that it could easily turn something like the Mini into a nice little house cleaner, too; great for stairs.  Can't remember the video, but I saw someone had modified their Button with a Smart Watch armband to make it even more convenient to use than being attached around the end of the hose.

Serge had a good example of the utility of including bluetooth batteries with the 18V drills, not only for using some of the DC attachments for the drills (which admittedly I had never knew existed) but also for cross-compatibility with the other cordless Festools that can use the BT batteries.

 

[gunnyr]

I thought this was a great question topic Monkeyclimber. I have a lot of festools in the shop but most are corded for exactly the reason you are pointing out. I am almost always going to use them with dust collection so what is the point in getting a cordless since I am always gonna have to plug in the CT.
......

Things that come to mind are a sawsall, trim router, small miter saw, planer, Cordless dust collector, and maybe a trim nailer. If I see them push into some of this, especially the sawsall, I am placing orders.

Well said [member=32538]MaineShop[/member]

IMHO Festool's greatest shortcoming in the cordless line is the failure to market a cordless dust collector.  For the life of me I can't understand why Festool wasted the effort producing the CT SYS as a corded only extractor.  For the money AND performance I'm keeping my CT MIDI.

 

[DeformedTree]

A cordless CT will happen in time.  But when they made it, it wasn't an option.  It still has a benefit of being fairly small, and fitting in the stack. But, such a CT probably would not have a plug for the corded tools, it would be battery powered and use blue tooth for the cordless tools. Putting a DC to AC inverter in there would just add a lot of weight/space, etc to it. Plus you would have people trying to run an OF2200 off it.

I think a lot of folks would like to see something like a CT26 sized unit, in the systainer form factor. Something that works will for the big tools, doesn't fill quick, but they can toss it in their stacks.  Add to that a revised cyclone that is a full up systainer, not the awkward container gap.  Now folks can stack it up with all their other systainers, even have in a rack setup if folks have that, and when not in use, it just goes back in the stack with with all the other tools.

I have 2 CT26's.  I wish they were the same form factor as the systainers.  I have the cyclone, I wish it wasn't a top and bottom unit, I have a very early one, so I don't have the suspenders, but even still, I'd like it to all be a T-lock solution. To be able to pack them all up into a cabinet when not in use would be great.

 

[Imemiter]

I was using my "contractor cleaning kit" last night to sweep up the garage floor.  I still have the old Mini but I've seen enough demonstrations of "The Button" to know that it could easily turn something like the Mini into a nice little house cleaner, too; great for stairs.  Can't remember the video, but I saw someone had modified their Button with a Smart Watch armband to make it even more convenient to use than being attached around the end of the hose.

I have a client who loves to "help" sometimes. Honestly, I should nix the air-quotes because she's a really hard worker and smart as all heck. Anyway, she'll text wanting to know if I'm bringing a vacuum. "Bring the one with the Button" she'll say. If I need a vac for DC, I have to bring two because I'm not getting the Button away from her!  

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Its funny how many of us can only really see how we work and not realise how different circumstances change the methods of working.
Me I'm baffled at people who like those little 3Ah batteries because for me charging batteries is an effort and sometimes a charging point is a good distance away in an area where theft is an issue.
So I buy minimum 5Ah batteries so its less often.
Garage-wallahs are 10 feet away from a socket at most and love the lergonomics and light weight of those tools.
You couldn't give me one.

As I understand it the TSC is more powerful than the TS55 so they're not always giving up anything on power anyway.

I am exactly one of those guys. I work in a commercial cabinet shop, never going out into the field. There are guys who do that and only that, they are never in the shop. I am never more than a few feet from a charger that is plugged in and ready to go. I have 4 of the actual Makita 2ah batteries and 2 of the cheap knock-offs. It's enough to cover the 2 impact drivers, 2 drills and 2 compact routers all at once, but I can't use them all at the same time anyway, so if one is in the charger for a few minutes, it's fine.
The only cordless Festool item I have is the CXS and that's been ok for a while. Lately though I have been looking into the Vecturo. I would have preferred the corded version, all things being equal, but they aren't. As I understand it, the newer accessories are not compatible with the corded version. That makes it a no-go, but I really don't want to get into the full sized battery platform for just one tool either. That's why I have done nothing about it at this point.

Someone else mentioned that there is not really any tool designed to be used with dust extraction required.
To this I would say that extraction is absolutely required with the Domino. Even though I have seen a few people "get by with it" on a DF500, I wouldn't do it,(and Festool doesn't want you too) and that's only at 28mm maximum plunge depth. With the DF700? No Way
With the other tools it's a cleanliness and health advantage, with the deep plunge of the DF700, I would say it's mechanical. Those chips just won't clear out of the hole quickly enough to keep it from binding up. At very best, you will get an over-sized mortise from the wobble. At worst? broken bit, maybe more, like the gearbox itself?

 

[DeformedTree]

Well, if you get into cutting into concrete and such, then dust collection becomes a must. But far as a tool that won't function without a vacuum, yeah, probably nothing.

I would say routers come pretty close to being a tool with mandatory dust collection. It's why I keep looking at the festool routers. I have a small dewalt with dust collection bits, it kinda works.  When I have run it without dust collection, the amount of mess is just insane and not acceptable.

I just don't want the mess around, so it's become a big thing for me, and I wish I had discovered festool stuff far sooner.

I'm actually curious if at some point OSHA and their global cousins might step in and start mandating dust extractor interlocks on tools, where they just can't run without being connected to some form of dust extraction.

 

[threesixright]

There are plenty situations where you don’t  need a vac. Think outside cutting, sanding, etc.

Myself, I just went with the corded versions where possible. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DeformedTree]

eh,  I don't want the mess outside either.  Sweeping sawdust out of grass much harder than sweeping a floor.  Plus wind and such, I don't see how things change being outside over inside.  It may not be critical like inside, but why would folks want the mess or be covered in dust outside?

 

[Cheese]

eh,  I don't want the mess outside either.  Sweeping sawdust out of grass much harder than sweeping a floor.  Plus wind and such, I don't see how things change being outside over inside.  It may not be critical like inside, but why would folks want the mess or be covered in dust outside?

That's when you fire up the back-pack blower. [cool]

 

[FestitaMakool]

eh,  I don't want the mess outside either.  Sweeping sawdust out of grass much harder than sweeping a floor.  Plus wind and such, I don't see how things change being outside over inside.  It may not be critical like inside, but why would folks want the mess or be covered in dust outside?

That's when you fire up the back-pack blower. [cool]

Or when you don’t own a back pack blower [poke] but have a compressor and an air gun. Even the tools get impressively clean in a blink of an eye. Pre-Festool dust collecting, it’s been the default way  [big grin]
Then, the new CT Mini/Midi has a blower port.. [wink]

 

[threesixright]

eh,  I don't want the mess outside either.  Sweeping sawdust out of grass much harder than sweeping a floor.  Plus wind and such, I don't see how things change being outside over inside.  It may not be critical like inside, but why would folks want the mess or be covered in dust outside?

If you just need to make few cuts... plain wood and a bit of dust (not treated) isn’t that bad. Obviously not MDF, painted and the like.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Packard]

I love my cordless drill, but it spins at 1,375 rpm (no load) and probably 1,000 to 1,100 under load drilling 8mm holes. 

My old corded drill spins at 3,500 rpm and does not appear to slow down at all drilling 8mm holes.

I use my corded drill for dowel holes and for pocket holes.  Not only does it go faster (much faster if you are drilling for a lot of dowels), the holes are cleaner.  Invariably I have access to power when I use those tools and they tend to be used at a specific workstation. 

So don't throw out those 110 volt power tools.  They do some jobs better than the battery-powered tools.