Festool CSX in 2020

[rmhinden]

I am very happy with my CXS, it's my favorite cordless drill.  Probably made better since I have a Centrotec Installers Set

I also have a drill press and two old Makita drills, I only use the latter if I need more power, but that doesn't happen very often.    I continue to be surprised about how powerful the CXS is given its size and weight.

I would seriously consider buying an improved version if it was available.

Bob

 

[RKA]

All this said, does the Festool offer any benefits over its competitors?  Honestly I’m not too worried about a brushed motor even if it SHOULD be updated by now.  I believe the Bosch FlexiClick is still brushed...incidentally.  By the time I reach runtime on a brushed motor it’ll be time to buy another one anyway.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The differences are subtle.  So it so it depends on your needs. 

Festool pros - very slim body, enough that the need for an offset chuck is almost unnecessary (for really tight corners, use the 90 degree chuck), excellent trigger control.  The centrotec chuck is a pro and a con.  It’s lightweight and the balance of the drill with that chuck makes it the best of breed imho.  But adopting the centrotec system completely is expensive and impossible.  The Jacobs chuck won’t be far behind when you don’t have the right centrotec but/drill on hand.  Cons - It’s low on power compared to brushless models, however, if used as an installation tool, that shouldn’t matter much.  It’s when you push it to other tasks because it’s what you have hanging by your side that this becomes evident. And as cheese mentioned, the max RPM is noticeable when drilling.  In general, it’s showing it’s age, but I still like it and would replace it with another today if cost was not a factor.

Milwaukee - better battery life, particularly if you’re using the 3ah compact batteries, more power.  M12 compatible ecosystem of tools (compared to the Festool ecosystem of one tool).

Bosch - don’t know, but I‘ve read the trigger control is good.  The body is a bit chubby compared to the festool.  You can get screaming deals on these if you can wait.  $100-120 isn’t uncommon when Amazon put them on sale once or twice a year.

I would add that every Milwaukee drill and impact driver I own (M12 and M18) have a trigger that wants to actuate in defined “steps” and they ramp up fast.  So the trigger control is decidedly bad when you’re looking for precision.  In many cases it doesn’t matter, however with this tool, I would say it’s something you should pay attention to.  If you can’t test it in store, find a retailer that has a generous return policy.

 

[mrboult]

The CXS is wonderful, but because there was practically zero jobs I could risk taking only the CXS I wondered why I bothered with it when I love my T18 compact so much..  Eventually sold it to fund another tool.

If festool either gave it more power and/or somehow re-designed the batteries to fit the 18v charger, then I'd be back!

 

[Spandex]

I haven’t fitted the Jacobs chuck to my CXS for years - I have all the centrotec bits I need for that type of drill.

Apart from the light weight, balance and excellent right angle attachment, the thing I really like about the CXS is the fact it’s centrotec.. not because I think centrotec is amazing in itself, but because I have other Festool drills so I can instantly switch chucks/bits between all my drills when I’m working on something.

My CXS stays in my tool bag for general work, and if I’m doing something that I know will need more torque or hammer, I’ll bring the C18 or PDC too. I just can’t bring myself to carry the extra weight and bulk of an 18v tool around just on the off-chance I’ll need more clout.

 

[Cheese]

I'm a big fan of Milwaukee tools and between the corded & the cordless drills own over 15 of them. However the Achilles heel of the tools has always been their non-linear trigger speed controls. Like Raj said, they are speed adjustable in steps only.

There also seem to be service life issues with the speed controls. One of my M18 currently has the issue and will be brought back to the Milwaukee service center for speed control replacement.

 

[FestitaMakool]

I'm a big fan of Milwaukee tools and between the corded & the cordless drills own over 15 of them. However the Achilles heel of the tools has always been their non-linear trigger speed controls. Like Raj said, they are speed adjustable in steps only.

There also seem to be service life issues with the speed controls. One of my M18 currently has the issue and will be brought back to the Milwaukee service center for speed control replacement.

Agree with most of you, and Cheese above here.
I would not hesitate to advise on the CXS. It has; very nice trigger control, it feels and operates very well in most hands, it’s slim, it has a short height and it’s light. It does lack a little in power compared to newer competitors.
From my experience the newer brushless Makita’s in the 10.8V CXT Range excels above the CXS.
I’ve had Bosch, Milwaukee and Metabo, but as Cheese says the non linear trigger control and lack of constant speed control is something other common makes other than Makita and Festool really miss out on, and this may even be more important on a drill used for finer work than a slugger for drilling holes.
What could benefit the CXS in brushless version, is; they could have made it a lot shorter, and it would have increased runtime - considerably. Brushed motors are not bad in any way, but these factors count. Shorter to have better reach, BL for run-time and most likely higher top speed as well.

 

[vkumar]

[member=71478]FestitaMakool[/member] do you have any specific model numbers on the Makita?

 

[rst]

I'm like Cheese, have at least 15 Milwaukee's.  Seven 12v and 8-10 18v.  I the new installer set that lives in my service van while the CSX lives in my shop, along with C-18v.

 

[TwelvebyTwenty]

New member here - hello all.

I've been running a CXS 2.6ah for about three years - almost didn't buy it because it isn't brushless. But honestly until I saw this thread (as a long time lurker), I had forgotten it isn't brushless and my overriding sentiment towards the tool is just how lovely it is to use regardless of what particular technology it utilises.

 

[FestitaMakool]

[member=71478]FestitaMakool[/member] do you have any specific model numbers on the Makita?

Hi, i couldn’t find the respective model numbers on the US site, but here’s from the UK site.
I have all three, the last one being a sub compact and running on LXT 18V batteries. It is available in 12V MAX CXT version as well. The middle one is their baby impact, but with almost same features as their 18V flagship. 1/2 the size and weight but plenty powerful enough.

I accidentally bought a CXS too, but wasn’t going to [embarassed] but for Centrotec use it’s brilliant. I use the regular chucked Makita 12/10.8V MAX the most though.
https://www.makitauk.com/product/df332dzhttps://www.makitauk.com/product/td111dz
https://www.makitauk.com/product/ddf083z

 

[Sourwould]

I have the 18v subcompact Makita. I don't love it, but it works well enough. Not enough power to drive a tapcon, which is a big downside for me. Mine has a lot of run-out and the Chuck is awful. The Chuck waits till you're at the top of the ladder to let go of the bit. At least do it before you get on the ladder. I think this drill is the one that's going to have me swear off plastic chucks forever.

I only have 5.0 ah batteries (since they're the same size as the 3.0 and 4.0) so the size and weight is about the same as the first Makita drill I got about ten years ago. I will say it was totally worth the price. I think it was $50-60 new for the bare tool. In my opinion, the main reason to get this drill would be if you already have the batteries.

As for brushed vs brushless, I think there's something to be said about the longevity of brushed motors. They're really simple, no computer brain, and deal with dirt and water well. My Makita impact will turn ten next year and works as well as the day I got it (used). It's had a hard life too. It's been on site with me for 7 years 5 days a week. I use the back of it and the battery in the base as a hammer relatively often, it gets used in the rain, has been dropped off second story roofs more than once. Got the original brushes in it.

I've seen several brushless drills melt down on site, always seems to be some computer issue. The brushed drills I've put down all had failed chucks and the screw holding the chucks on were too seized/stripped/mashed to replace the chucks.

 

[vkumar]

Thank you [member=71220]Sourwould[/member]  for your review. It is quite helpful. Just goes to show there is no perfection combining ergonomics, longevity, power, and user control.  One has to compromise in one or more areas.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Speed control.

Bought a Ryobi 16 gauge cordless nailer for a project and the best deal in batteries at the time was to buy a Ryobi hammer drill kit. I brought the drill with me to the project since there might be a need to put anchors in concrete but otherwise expected to use a nice new Makita drill.

The client had a crew of movers bringing in his office furniture which included an antique desk which wouldn’t pass through the door without the removal of at least two of the legs. As the only guy with tools it was up to me. Piece of cake I thought and scooted under to check it out. Turned out to be an eccentric oddball construction and the easiest way to get the legs off was to remove the entire apron and the drawer frame which meant removing about a dozen very old countersunk flat head slotted screws.

Tried the Makita and even in low gear just could not get the spindle to turn slowly enough to align with the slot in the screw. Doubly frustrated I got out the clunky cheap Ryobi hammer drill and was very pleasantly surprised at how slowly and smoothly it turned. Completely flipped my preconceptions about Makita and Ryobi, although the only other Ryobi tools I’ve bought are the 18 gauge brad gun and a hot glue gun.

 

[Bran077]

I’m just a hobbyist looking for something that’s a pleasure to use in my small shop.  Smooth and linear speed control would be a nice plus, like others have said, I’ve had issues overdriving fasteners with my milwaukee m12 drivers.

I do a lot of cabinet construction.

 

[FestitaMakool]

For that kind of use, I think you would be very happy with the CXS.
I’m neither a professional that uses my drills all day day in day out. In that respect, the battery capacity is more than enough. You’ll probably find that you’ll use each drill to each task, because where one falls a bit short, another excels.
The smoothness of the CXS trigger and speed control will most likely make it 1st. choice when doing cabinetry.

 

[FestitaMakool]

I have the 18v subcompact Makita. I don't love it, but it works well enough. Not enough power to drive a tapcon, which is a big downside for me. Mine has a lot of run-out and the Chuck is awful. The Chuck waits till you're at the top of the ladder to let go of the bit. At least do it before you get on the ladder. I think this drill is the one that's going to have me swear off plastic chucks forever.

I only have 5.0 ah batteries (since they're the same size as the 3.0 and 4.0) so the size and weight is about the same as the first Makita drill I got about ten years ago. I will say it was totally worth the price. I think it was $50-60 new for the bare tool. In my opinion, the main reason to get this drill would be if you already have the batteries.

As for brushed vs brushless, I think there's something to be said about the longevity of brushed motors. They're really simple, no computer brain, and deal with dirt and water well. My Makita impact will turn ten next year and works as well as the day I got it (used). It's had a hard life too. It's been on site with me for 7 years 5 days a week. I use the back of it and the battery in the base as a hammer relatively often, it gets used in the rain, has been dropped off second story roofs more than once. Got the original brushes in it.

I've seen several brushless drills melt down on site, always seems to be some computer issue. The brushed drills I've put down all had failed chucks and the screw holding the chucks on were too seized/stripped/mashed to replace the chucks.

The sub compact is Makita’s answer to fitters that are complaining about having a second battery platform for a mounting drill. I don’t get it, because it’s when you have the same drill with much smaller battery and overall much smaller footprint it makes sense. I hav 3, 5 and 6Ah batteries for my Makita 18V, but bought a 2Ah for drilling, it’s superb for that use (with BL drills) you might look into that.
If the chuck wobbles, why not take it to a Makita service centre? Knowing Makita they’ll exchange it in a heartbeat. I’ve had a chuck and electronics exchanged with no questions asked. They agreed it was not up to their standard.

 

[Sourwould]

For a hobbyist, the Makita would probably be a good drill with the small batteries. If you don't get a kit, pick up one of the big, green, old chargers. They seem to last forever. And for bonus points they play classical music when they're done charging.

Fastikamactool:

I kind of just assumed they were all like that. I've never dealt with a Makita service center. I think there's one like 8 hours away. I've been using the drill for nearly two years so I guess it hasn't stopped me working.

I'd be curious to know if we actually bought the same drill, or if I'm getting a cheaper version here in the US. It seems like Makita "value engineers" their Japanese tools for the US market and has them made in China. Or has a completely different tool designed for the US market, like with their nail guns. I have one Japanese made brad nailer and it's a completely different animal from what they sell at home depot. Americans are unwilling to pay prices that aren't subsidized by slave labor.

 

[xedos]

It’s low on power compared to brushless models, however, if used as an installation tool, that shouldn’t matter much.  It’s when you push it to other tasks because it’s what you have hanging by your side that this becomes evident. And as cheese mentioned, the max RPM is noticeable when drilling.  In general, it’s showing it’s age,

This illustrates my general problem with CXS currently.  Yes it's a wonderful ergonomic package.  But lack of speed, torque and runtime absolutely matter on a cabinet installation site.  And while some don't see the need in a close quarters chuck, their opinion doesn't speak for everyone.  And if they did work in places other than their own home, they might then see a use for such.

There's clearly a lot of sentimentality here when guys here kid themselves that a motor replacement at 3x the cost of the same manuf.'s brushes is "just a bit more"  :  Most durable good's prices come down over their lifetime especially when they get no improvements.  CXS is just the opposite.  And I certainly can't blame TTS for standing pat when most guys here say they're fine with CXS as a brushed motor and it's comparatively low power and runtime.  There's no incentive to improve when your herd is content.  So why rock the boat , and shrink the owner's pie slice?

 

[vkumar]

[member=67935]xedos[/member] I couldnt have said it better myself.

 

[Spandex]

There's clearly a lot of sentimentality here when guys here kid themselves that a motor replacement at 3x the cost of the same manuf.'s brushes is "just a bit more"  :  Most durable good's prices come down over their lifetime especially when they get no improvements.  CXS is just the opposite.  And I certainly can't blame TTS for standing pat when most guys here say they're fine with CXS as a brushed motor and it's comparatively low power and runtime.  There's no incentive to improve when your herd is content.  So why rock the boat , and shrink the owner's pie slice?

Well for me, it’s not about trying to justify the price difference or ‘kid myself’, but it’s something that will happen rarely (or not at all for some users) and its a cost that is bearable. If someone thinks the price of a new motor when the brushes wear out is enough to push them to a different drill then they’ll get no argument from me. But it’s not like brushless improves reliability, it just moves the failure point to the control electronics.

As for TTS not having any reason to upgrade because people on this forum are fine with brushed motors, I think that might be over estimating the weight this place carries. I think it’s actually pretty clear from Festools marketing direction that they’re very keen on getting new customers, even at the risk of annoying the old guard on here.

I suspect the reality is that Festool are simply devoting most of their time working on the expanding 18v range and a niche product like the CXS is bottom of the list because it’s not going to make them a huge amount of money even if it was upgraded to compete on specs with M12, etc. The only way Festool would move the CXS up the priority list is if they decided to create an expanded 10.8v range. I’d love them to do that, but I won’t hold my breath.