Festool drill or Milwaukee?

[Coliban]

Oh... The magic of "The System" again.  [eek]

Indeed, a working system has a inherent "magic". This "magic" is the result of interactions, cooperation and a, in the whole, much more better performance than that of several different tools, each one with other standards, specifications and none of them build on behalf of the function of others. If i do something, for example, start a project, i look at the tools, programs, people or machines which easily interact and which can be integrated in a bigger environment.
If i needed only one computer for example to solve some problems, then i could buy nearly every modern computer on this planet. But if i had to build a big network, clients and servers, maybe spread all over the country or intercontinental, then i would carefully research which systems are on the market, which one would have the interfaces or protocols needed, which one are reactive and easily integrated in the whole big big, but not only the computers, but as well the network, switches, routers, the service/maintenance/repair and backup philosophy,  and much more.
Ok, maybe this is oversizes for my wood hobby, but the "system" approach is an unconscious approach within our minds. Or maybe, it should, the costs of hardware, in case of a failure or in case of repair, upgrade, change is, if you run a homogen system, much less than if you have a big accumulation of different manufacturers, standards and approaches. Not to mention the extra costs with single tools or isolated hardware which are not wide spread or known, you have to pay an unbelievable amount for specialists, even for the simplest problems, if you are not able to go out and search for it and get, with maybe one keyword, several hundreds or thousands of solutions or users who also faced the problems you have, and solved it.

Then, and this, i think, is also one important point, if i have to solve a problem and i could be able to choose the domain, i would always take the "mainstream", e.g. the domain with the biggest user base. Maybe this is more important, the help someone gets from a broad spectrum of users, is much more valuable than the advance someone has, when he works with the best single tools or programs, if he is the only one who is using them. And the user base for festool is fairly big and active.

To me it is like picking a woman because of the color of her dress or her shoe colour.

Hm, this domain is a very different field, i can't compare them in this way, and i think, they are incomparable. Fiddling around with the old Systainers is very time consumption and annoying, the new t-loc system is fast and i can handle it with one left hand, which is not possible with the old system, which is used by Mafell or Makita. In my eyes is not a question of a good look, it is a question of a functional design.

Similarly one could put the drill into any box. I do not use the systainer for drilling, sawing, etc...
However everyone has a multitude of "requirements" with some not related to the tool's function.
I follow the Bauhaus school.

Yes, you are right, everyone has his/her own requirements and thats the reason why i would prefer festool, even if it has sometimes a higher price. But my experience is, that the price for the hardware is (and was, from my experience), only a fraction of the costs, resulting in bad equipment or a bad system design which always leads to much higher costs (whether in material, time or nerves) in the end. I don't know Milwaukee or DeWalt, etc.,  very good, maybe, the have also a good system approach, but here, it is easier for me to go for Festool or Mafell than for other brands.

I follow the Bauhaus school.

Hmm, good point, for me, the Tanos T-loc system is the consequent realization of the Bauhaus principle on the construction site.

regards

 

[Timtool]

Oh... The magic of "The System" again.  [eek]

I believe FT and Mafell boxes are from Tanos, Now the T-Lock and the classic respectively.

To me it is like picking a woman because of the color of her dress or her shoe colour.

Similarly one could put the drill into any box. I do not use the systainer for drilling, sawing, etc...
However everyone has a multitude of "requirements" with some not related to the tool's function.
I follow the Bauhaus school.

I would say that if anything the Festool approach is closer to the Bauhaus principle than any other brand, the other brands would just make a drill that drills and slap it in the first box that fits and stop there. Not thinking at all about the bigger picture like users ending up with different cases for each tools that were in different sizes which makes them difficult to store and impossible to handle. Not questioning if the jacobs chuck couldn't be replaced by something lighter and easier to operate. etc...

The other tools are functional and still do the job, but if you have to design a case for them anyway, why not make an intelligent design? It's the same for every other aspect regarding the tools, question everything and see if it can't be done better like with the Plug it cords and centrotec system, any tool of any brand would be heaps better if they had these systems. Just like when Bosch invented the SDS system for hammer tools and jig saw blades, it took decades for other brands to adopt it, but now it has become normal and nobody would want a tool that doesn't have these functions. Still i bet people had the exact same discussions back then about the fancy sds gimmick.

I remember before i used festools, it isn't rare to have 3-4 power tools on your workbench between which you alternate for some operations. I recall what a nightmare it was to have hoses and cords all over the place, and stepping by accident on them which would send the tool flying to the ground etc... having to store them in drawers and wrapping the cord around them each time, because the cases that came with them were of an incredibly stupid design.
All that is over now, i have one hose with a cord coming from a boom arm, nothing on the ground, no cords to wrap, tools that easily go back in their box on a simple flat drawer under the workbench etc...

 

[jmbfestool]

Oh... The magic of "The System" again.  [eek]

I believe FT and Mafell boxes are from Tanos, Now the T-Lock and the classic respectively.

To me it is like picking a woman because of the color of her dress or her shoe colour.

Similarly one could put the drill into any box. I do not use the systainer for drilling, sawing, etc...
However everyone has a multitude of "requirements" with some not related to the tool's function.
I follow the Bauhaus school.

I would say that if anything the Festool approach is closer to the Bauhaus principle than any other brand, the other brands would just make a drill that drills and slap it in the first box that fits and stop there. Not thinking at all about the bigger picture like users ending up with different cases for each tools that were in different sizes which makes them difficult to store and impossible to handle. Not questioning if the jacobs chuck couldn't be replaced by something lighter and easier to operate. etc...

The other tools are functional and still do the job, but if you have to design a case for them anyway, why not make an intelligent design? It's the same for every other aspect regarding the tools, question everything and see if it can't be done better like with the Plug it cords and centrotec system, any tool of any brand would be heaps better if they had these systems. Just like when Bosch invented the SDS system for hammer tools and jig saw blades, it took decades for other brands to adopt it, but now it has become normal and nobody would want a tool that doesn't have these functions. Still i bet people had the exact same discussions back then about the fancy sds gimmick.

I remember before i used festools, it isn't rare to have 3-4 power tools on your workbench between which you alternate for some operations. I recall what a nightmare it was to have hoses and cords all over the place, and stepping by accident on them which would send the tool flying to the ground etc... having to store them in drawers and wrapping the cord around them each time, because the cases that came with them were of an incredibly stupid design.
All that is over now, i have one hose with a cord coming from a boom arm, nothing on the ground, no cords to wrap, tools that easily go back in their box on a simple flat drawer under the workbench etc...

+1

 

[Holmz]

I looked deep into the mirror to see if I was drooling yet.
So I must believe that the Kool-Aid is taking effect.

You could trade the p1cc for a good Carvex in the T-Loc, which is also "system compliant", and then save a lot of time and be Bauhaus (?) .
----
One one hand the T-Locs save time, and on the other hand the plug it cable needs to be changed???
(I am still not drooling)...
It takes me at least 10 seconds to change a power cable off and on, and the box is used once a day.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

You could trade the p1cc for a good Carvex

But its definitely two different tools,p1cc is more jigsaw than Carvex.

But again,I choose Carvex because of the system.

 

[Timtool]

It takes me at least 10 seconds to change a power cable off and on, and the box is used once a day.

Plug it can save time as you don't need to go to the vac and switch cables there, get the other tool with cable out of the way etc...
But it primarily helps you from keeping clutter away or getting cables entangled all over the place.

I attached a plug it to an OF900 but it's not the same, it has to be fixed solid to the machine, and not loose on the cable. otherwise you need 3 hands to attach it, one to hold the tool, one to hold the female plug and one to twist the male plug. After a while i placed the normal cable back on it.
Recently i dropped my fein MM the wrong way and the blade cut through the cable, i had to screw open the machine, cut the cable to where it was broken and attach it back. Made me lose 30 minutes on the job, had it been a plug it i would have just taken another one and kept on working. Not to mention the time i lose every time i need to store it back into it's systainer. I had to buy a systainer for it because at the time Fein supplied their little tool in a huge case big enough to store a guitar... no way i was lugging that around.

 

[mike_aa]

  [popcorn]

 

[Darren1972]

 

[Darren1972]

Any cheap 18 v impact driver can screw a 250 lag bolt into oak now screwing it in straight now thats a different story

If a Timberlock screw is considered a "lag bolt", then you are incorrect.                                         

no a lag bolt  has a much bigger diameter so its harder to drive in but any impact will do it any driver will not

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Any cheap 18 v impact driver can screw a 250 lag bolt into oak now screwing it in straight now thats a different story

If a Timberlock screw is considered a "lag bolt", then you are incorrect.                                         

no a lag bolt  has a much bigger diameter so its harder to drive in but any impact will do it any driver will not

Its possible to do with Festool PDC 18/4 (not using hammer mode) ,very easy!

 

[sae]

[popcorn]

 

[Holmz]

It takes me at least 10 seconds to change a power cable off and on, and the box is used once a day.

Plug it can save time as you don't need to go to the vac and switch cables there, get the other tool with cable out of the way etc...
But it primarily helps you from keeping clutter away or getting cables entangled all over the place.
...

Maybe I need to relook at the drills again.

In the context of FT versus Milwaukee drills... and/or drills in general, the only "System" is the 1/4 drivers or the 6-mm centrotec, & SDS.
How does the plug it on the saw and the vacuum relate to drilling a hole?

If the rail had a mount for the drill, or some other deal then maybe the system applies.
However... It is just a drill. There is no System magic that makes it any better at drilling.

 

[Kev]

It takes me at least 10 seconds to change a power cable off and on, and the box is used once a day.

Plug it can save time as you don't need to go to the vac and switch cables there, get the other tool with cable out of the way etc...
But it primarily helps you from keeping clutter away or getting cables entangled all over the place.
...

Maybe I need to relook at the drills again.

In the context of FT versus Milwaukee drills... and/or drills in general, the only "System" is the 1/4 drivers or the 6-mm centrotec, & SDS.
How does the plug it on the saw and the vacuum relate to drilling a hole?

If the rail had a mount for the drill, or some other deal then maybe the system applies.
However... It is just a drill. There is no System magic that makes it any better at drilling.

For drills/drivers from a Festool thinking .. Systainer storage, Centrotec, chucks, batteries & chargers (across the rest of the narrow cordless range). The CXS is still "odd" though, with different battery, charger and right angle chuck.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

It takes me at least 10 seconds to change a power cable off and on, and the box is used once a day.

Plug it can save time as you don't need to go to the vac and switch cables there, get the other tool with cable out of the way etc...
But it primarily helps you from keeping clutter away or getting cables entangled all over the place.
...

Maybe I need to relook at the drills again.

In the context of FT versus Milwaukee drills... and/or drills in general, the only "System" is the 1/4 drivers or the 6-mm centrotec, & SDS.
How does the plug it on the saw and the vacuum relate to drilling a hole?

If the rail had a mount for the drill, or some other deal then maybe the system applies.
However... It is just a drill. There is no System magic that makes it any better at drilling.

You forgot Centrotec,with all Centrotec bits,drill bits and etc. its a System!

 

[Holmz]

You're right.
Luckily they fit in my 1/4" drive.

Here is one for you... Local band...

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Luckily they fit in my 1/4" drive...

...and wobble!

 

[Wuffles]

Any cheap 18 v impact driver can screw a 250 lag bolt into oak now screwing it in straight now thats a different story

If a Timberlock screw is considered a "lag bolt", then you are incorrect.                                         

no a lag bolt  has a much bigger diameter so its harder to drive in but any impact will do it any driver will not

I was speaking from experience. I had an instance where a Bosch 18v impact wouldn't drive the Timberlock screws in whereas the PDC managed it without any issue.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Any cheap 18 v impact driver can screw a 250 lag bolt into oak now screwing it in straight now thats a different story

If a Timberlock screw is considered a "lag bolt", then you are incorrect.                                         

no a lag bolt  has a much bigger diameter so its harder to drive in but any impact will do it any driver will not

I was speaking from experience. I had an instance where a Bosch 18v impact wouldn't drive the Timberlock screws in whereas the PDC managed it without any issue.

Thats what I'm saying before,it can be done with PDC,this drill just a beast,torque and speed in one container!

 

[Holmz]

I thought impact drills impacted along the long axis of rotation?
They are not made for high torque as much as for high impact hammering.

 

[bkharman]

I went from a Milwaukee v28 to the PDC and am extremely happy. I don't have a need for impact and never have, so the 4 way gear box and variable speed make it so versatile.

If you haven't tried one out before, give it a go. If price is the main concern, there are better options in the category.

Cheers. Bryan.