Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail

[Michael Kellough]

That is a great bracket Rob! Perfect for people who want to build their own MFT style table.

Can it be fitted to a Festool MFT for those who want to upgrade?

 

[Svar]

I do agree the saws don’t ride on the Mafell tracks as smoothly (at least mine doesn’t move as smoothly as the Festools).  I’ve waxed the rails and it helps, but not for very long.  I purchased some ultrathin clear UHMW tape to see if a few lines run down the track will improve things, but I haven’t tried it yet.  I suspect that will help.

It's not just the plastic strips, it's also how the saw contacts the guide rib of the rail. Newer Festool saws have plastic pads on both sides of the groove. Older ones still have a bump in casting across from the green adjustment knob. On Mafell the entire length of the machined groove grinds against the rail causing greater friction. There is not much you can do about it.

 

[RightAngleDesign]

That is a great bracket Rob! Perfect for people who want to build their own MFT style table.

Can it be fitted to a Festool MFT for those who want to upgrade?

Yes. It's a direct retrofit for the MFT.

 

[newoldwoodworker]

Thanks for the post, Cheese!!
I just got a KSS60 2 days ago, and I was wondering about the regular Mafell rails.

I'm still getting used to it, but since I appear to have been forced into carpentry rather than just finish work, I treated myself to a nice dedicated saw. Besides, trying to bang out cuts of 2x4's etc with a plunge saw and no rail was horrifically dangerous. I was fighting the TS55 blade retraction while I tried to follow the line and keep the baseplate planted. An alternative was to bring each piece back to my MFT which was taking way too long and I didn't need that level of accuracy.

I like the saw so far, but there's still a lot I'm getting used to.

Question: Do Mafell saws on regular rails cut right at the edge of the splinter guard? My KSS60 cuts about 1/16" away from the rubber edge of its special guide track. Maybe there's some adjustment mechanism that I missed seeing in the manual, or maybe the saw on that carpentry guide track is just different from the saw on the regular guide rail.

The full kit of the KSS40 is obviously the best deal but it might make you start buying Metabo stuff. It did me...

LOL -- I went the other way around. I had my eye on a KSS-something as some wish-list, far-off-in-the-future possible purchase, and the Festool stuff were still in battery-transition, and I was absolutely fed up with the horrendously uncontrollable throttle on my Milwaukee impact driver, so I tried Metabo because of the CAS cross-compatibility. The first drill I bought, though, was the 18V hammer drill since the batteries on my older V18 Milwaukee hammer drill had died. Oh wow what a powerhouse. I even abused it by mixing concrete in a 5-gallon pail. It did that without any trouble at all!  Then I got the little 12V drill. Very nice and able to drive finish screws carefully. Superb trigger modulation on both. So I bought the impact driver. Beyond fantastic. Immediately I was no longer stripping screws! For once, the problem was actually the tool, not the idiot at the other end. Milwaukee can make some nice stuff, but gosh I hated that cheapo impact driver. (e.g. I just bought their cordless framing nailer, which is magnificent. I can now return my very kind friend's 20-yr-old Porter Cable and 80 lb compressor.)

Great drills, though I will gripe that I'm frustrated by the current fad of putting the giant battery pack forward toward the business end of the drill. I am so very often swearing at not being able to wedge the drill into a tight corner because of that stupid battery placement. I curse "BEING A FOOT IS NOT ITS MAIN PURPOSE!" and then I climb down from the ladder to go find the right length extension rod so I can get my job done. And Festool's done the same thing with their new ones. Ugh.
Sorry -- Total digression there. Back to Mafell saws and rails...

So while I was going broke on tools, and getting pushed further into carpentry duty while there aren't any *real* carpenters available for our remodeling project, I splurged on the KSS60 without the batteries & charger, since I already had those.

 

[Svar]

Question: Do Mafell saws on regular rails cut right at the edge of the splinter guard? My KSS60 cuts about 1/16" away from the rubber edge of its special guide track. Maybe there's some adjustment mechanism that I missed seeing in the manual, or maybe the saw on that carpentry guide track is just different from the saw on the regular guide rail.

Larger KSS saws do not cut on splinter guard and there is no adjustment unless you put a new one and trim it.

 

[yetihunter]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]

Now that you have the rail, you should get the KSS40 to go with it.  It’s my most used saw.

Ya that's pretty funny...I was thinking the same thing yesterday while cutting some 2x materials. I really like the HKC but was interested in what the Mafell equivalent was. It looks like it's the KSS 50.

You mention the KSS 40 and I looked at the pricing of it and it's whacky. The bare KSS 40 is $915 while for an additional $84 you receive 2 batteries, a charger and a Flexi-Guide.  [scratch chin]
https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-kss-40-18m-bl-cordless-cross-cutting-system

Yup, it’s part of a special promotion for summer of 2019.  Suffice to say, they extended the promotion. 

The KSS 50 is, indeed, positioned against the HKC55.  It’s jab at Festool is that it can cut a 2x4 at 45...I haven’t used it but I’ve handled it a bit, it’s nice but if you have an HKC55, [member=2085]Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits[/member] can probably chime in because he has owned both and has a betty and veronica relationship between the two.  I understand that the cordless version isn’t that much more powerful than the HKC.  I like Mafell’s depth adjustment (two router like rails) infinitely more than the common pivot style but Henrik feels the opposite. 

Also ran, I run HK blades in my Mafell tracksaw.  It should work the other way around (just not the included blade that is a bit wider).

The KSS40 has a tiny blade and so it performs very well with only one battery (it is as powerful as the

 

[Cheese]

This is rather interesting...I was ripping 8' lengths of birds-eye maple yesterday using the MT 55 and 2 Mafell guide rails. After the first rip I noticed that each end of the guide rail and maple were flush with each other however, the middle of the maple was proud of the guide rail by about 1/64", or approx .5 mm.  LH end...middle...RH end.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

I then placed the saw back on the rail and performed the cut again. Same results, ends flush, middle proud. I did this 4 more times trying to figure out where the real issue was. This plainly shows the extra material in the middle section of the maple.

[attachimg=4]

I finally decided to clamp the Mafell rail on both ends, to the maple. That fixed the problem.

So, there's a slight movement of the Mafell rail if it's not clamped into position. That makes sense as the non-skid strips on the Mafell rail are very narrow compared to the Fetool version, 3 mm vs 19 mm.

[attachimg=5]

 

[jeh]

Excellent points on the Mafell rails. The amount of rubber contact the wood is rather lean and I noticed it when I ran my MT55 for the first time. The connector with no jig required insert makes up for it as does it not putting dents in the rail.

I have both types of rails and there is no question the Festool ones are more solid, but the design elements of the Mafell beat it in every other design area one of the most important being the length of usable rail for cuts.

 

[DynaGlide]

As a recent purchaser to the Bosch/Mafell rail (I bought a short length Bosch rail) for my newly acquired jigsaw. .I won't be moving my tools over. I like the features of the Festool rails too much. If the selling point is that the Mafell/Bosch rails link up easier, that's solved with aftermarket accessories for the Festool rails and is a moot point. I do like the Mafell/Bosch rails lean low profile feel but that's about it.

 

[Cheese]

1. The connector with no jig required insert makes up for it as does it not putting dents in the rail.

2. I have both types of rails and there is no question the Festool ones are more solid, but the design elements of the Mafell beat it in every other design area one of the most important being the length of usable rail for cuts.

1. Ya the Mafell rail connector is beyond awesome...leagues above other solutions. The option for the Festool rail is to use the TSO GRS-12 rail connector as the screws have a large flange on the bottom so they resist denting the rail.

[attachimg=1]

2. Another thing I noticed is that because the clamp slot is very close to the anti-skid strip on the Mafell rail, narrow pieces of wood are easily ripped. Anything wider than 3/4" is doable. Here's what I was left with yesterday.

[attachimg=2]

Another observation is that the Mafell splinter strip when cut by the saw, is a lot smoother than the Festool version. The Festool strip seems to have some smooth spots, some rough spots and is sometimes missing material. The Mafell splinter strip is ultra smooth which makes rail alignment with a pencil line a much easier task. Also the red color contrasts nicely compared to the Festool clear version.

Installation of a new splinter strip in the Mafell is also a breeze. Strip out the old, lubricate the slot and install the new splinter strip. It's a 3-4 minute task at the most.  [big grin]  No need for the removal of old adhesive.  [crying]

The only thing lacking in the Mafell rail is the lack of a TSO Guide Rail Square...however, I'm sure Hans [member=59331]TSO Products[/member] is working on it as we speak.  [big grin]  [poke]  [big grin]

 

[Svar]

Festool rail:
1) top t-track for accessories +++
2) light duty rail clamps useful elsewhere ++
3) wide, bench dogs don't interfere with saw base +++
4) glides smoother due to plastic strips +
5) better material grip +

Mafel rail:
1) better stock connector (scratch this one since TSO product came out) ++
2) second track for clamping close to splinter guard +++
3) better splinter guard, easy replacement +

I really like second t-track on Mafell, but don't care about the rest.

 

[blaszcsj]

Has anyone tried the metabo rails?

 

[jeh]

Festool rail:
1) top t-track for accessories +++

Help me out on this what accessories do you use for this other than a limit stop?

2) light duty rail clamps useful elsewhere ++
3) wide, bench dogs don't interfere with saw base +++
4) glides smoother due to plastic strips +
5) better material grip +

Mafel rail:
1) better stock connector (scratch this one since TSO product came out) ++
2) second track for clamping close to splinter guard +++
3) better splinter guard, easy replacement +

I really like second t-track on Mafell, but don't care about the rest.

Un-scratch 1) one as requiring two connectors and flipping over the rails negates any benefit.

I'll add the Mafell rails have usable cut lengths equal to the length of the rail whereas the Festool ones to do not, which is why you need 120" rail to rip a sheet of plywood.

In the Festool column add more rigidity. I have never damaged any of my Mafell rails, but they definitely are not as strong, for lack of a better word.

 

[Svar]

Help me out on this what accessories do you use for this other than a limit stop?

Dog rail clips, parallel guides, gecko suction handle, squares and protractors - that's just some commercially available. Bunch of other shop made useful stuff I've seen on this forum over the years.

I'll add the Mafell rails have usable cut lengths equal to the length of the rail whereas the Festool ones to do not, which is why you need 120" rail to rip a sheet of plywood.

It has nothing to do with rail. It's the saw base design. Festool rails also have usable cut lengths equal to the length of the rail if you use MT55 on them.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Help me out on this what accessories do you use for this other than a limit stop?

Dog rail clips, parallel guides, gecko suction handle - that's just some commercially available. Bunch of other useful stuff I've seen on this forum over the years.

I'll add the Mafell rails have usable cut lengths equal to the length of the rail whereas the Festool ones to do not, which is why you need 120" rail to rip a sheet of plywood.

It has nothing to do with rail. It's the saw base design. Festool rails also have usable cut lengths equal to the length of the rail if you use MT55 on them.

Festool’s saws pre TS made better use of the track length. But the Festool rails in those days did not have the outboard upward T slot, a very useful addition.

 

[Svar]

Festool’s saws pre TS made better use of the track length.

This change in the saw base design (less contact area in the groove) decreased friction. One of the reason why FS saws glide better than Mafell.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Festool’s saws pre TS made better use of the track length.

This change in the saw base design (less contact area in the groove) decreased friction. One of the reason why FS saws glide better than Mafell.

Agree, but occasionally circumstances make me glad I still have my old ATF55.

 

[Svar]

Has anyone tried the metabo rails?

I have not, but they still owe me  [big grin]:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...rail-this-is-what-festool-should-do/msg497464

And why did they omit the second very useful t-track?

 

[mrboult]

Has anyone tried the metabo rails?

Yes. You'll find my opinions here. . . .
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...tabo-guide-rails-festool/msg606178/#msg606178

 

[blaszcsj]

Thanks I missed that thread. Good input.