Festool is getting expensive!
- Thread starter mastercabman
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griffs said:
Yes Bosch and Milwaukee.
What I find is that the rest of the market is catching up and Festool slowing down, yet their pricing structure remains the same.
Take the CXS. I've recently been interested in buying it. But it's £230 for the set and not brushless. By comparison, Milwaukee's equivalent brushed drill with the different chucks can be had for £150. For the extra £80 I want a brushless motor. Same story with the PDC, where's the new motor to keep up with the torque figures other manufacturers offer? Carvex 420, doesn't cut quite as square as a Bosch £60 cheaper.
On the other hand the Domino 500 & 700 are unique and brilliant.
I don't mind Festool's prices, if what I'm getting is absolutely the best of that particular tool on the market or unique. But I won't pay way over the odds for gimmicks and niceties like plug it cords.
Has anybody in this thread mentioned how ridiculous some of the accessory prices are? Remember the plastic router centering device? A couple of pounds of plastic that cost hundreds of dollars.
I am very tempted by the vacuum clamp and may eventually buy one. However, the brackets for clamping to an MFT and pivoting under the table are crazy priced for a few pieces of punched and bent steel. I will not buy those as that kind of price value goes beyond my personal price value limit.
I am very tempted by the vacuum clamp and may eventually buy one. However, the brackets for clamping to an MFT and pivoting under the table are crazy priced for a few pieces of punched and bent steel. I will not buy those as that kind of price value goes beyond my personal price value limit.
I agree...Festool is getting way too expensive. I own a bunch (Circular Saw, Domino, MFT, Kapex, Drill, Work Light, Jigsaw, 3 Sanders, 2 Routers, Dust Extractor, etc...). In my opinion, the brand premium is justified in only a few cases. The sanders are great. The Domino is unique. After that, the premium gets harder to justify. In fact, in some categories, I find alternative brands better suit my needs. Bosch makes a decent jigsaw and some of their sanders aren't bad. In fact, many of their tools are decent. I own some Dewalt stuff that ain't bad ether...given the price.
People talk about the value of their time and I couldn't agree more. However, sometimes, quantity is a great time saver too. For example, dedicating a drill to a certain purpose (e.g., counter sink) so you don't have to fumble with 3 bits to drill, countersink, and drive a screw. Multiple cheap tools with dedicated functions can be a great time saver.
People talk about the value of their time and I couldn't agree more. However, sometimes, quantity is a great time saver too. For example, dedicating a drill to a certain purpose (e.g., counter sink) so you don't have to fumble with 3 bits to drill, countersink, and drive a screw. Multiple cheap tools with dedicated functions can be a great time saver.
jamanjeval
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While the tools are expensive, what bothers me most is how expensive many of the consumables are like dust collection bags, sander backing pads and so on.
It's funny that I keep disappointed (and cursing) by buying inexpensive Chinese-made products and pledge that I would never buy one. Then I find Europeans are good but twice as more expensive and find myself cursing it again.
We have seen that most American companies either disappeared or moved the production to China. The only remaining (Northfield, Clausing, etc.) are pro-only.
So it seems something in the middle between $ (China) and $$$$ (European) are missing and the separation keeps increasing.
To me, there are products that are simple and can be "good enough". Hand drill could be in that category; I can't feel difference (or at least anything justify the $ difference). Of course, reliability is another important thing even if I can't feel any difference, but the reliability is probability. For individual users, even if there is terrible 10% failure rate, 90% of users could be trouble free and happy users. But for pros that buy 10 drills, that would be a big deal; the failure in a critical moment in a job site 20 miles away from home would be a disaster.
I as a hobbyist working at home, I can take some risk and buy Asian-made products if I can't recognize functional difference.
In terms of functionality, Festool has some gold; Domino, tracksaw system, great sanders, etc. Things get a bit murky for Kapex, routers, dust extractors, jigsaws, and drills.
Having said that, Festool is still one of top choices for me. Once I got into larger Hammer products, Festool's prices seem reasonable, knowing how expensive (and still popular) the Felder and Minimax products are!!
We have seen that most American companies either disappeared or moved the production to China. The only remaining (Northfield, Clausing, etc.) are pro-only.
So it seems something in the middle between $ (China) and $$$$ (European) are missing and the separation keeps increasing.
To me, there are products that are simple and can be "good enough". Hand drill could be in that category; I can't feel difference (or at least anything justify the $ difference). Of course, reliability is another important thing even if I can't feel any difference, but the reliability is probability. For individual users, even if there is terrible 10% failure rate, 90% of users could be trouble free and happy users. But for pros that buy 10 drills, that would be a big deal; the failure in a critical moment in a job site 20 miles away from home would be a disaster.
I as a hobbyist working at home, I can take some risk and buy Asian-made products if I can't recognize functional difference.
In terms of functionality, Festool has some gold; Domino, tracksaw system, great sanders, etc. Things get a bit murky for Kapex, routers, dust extractors, jigsaws, and drills.
Having said that, Festool is still one of top choices for me. Once I got into larger Hammer products, Festool's prices seem reasonable, knowing how expensive (and still popular) the Felder and Minimax products are!!
QuailRider43
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I'm fortunate enough to have the money to buy any Festool product I feel I need, but the reason I have that money in the first place is I'm not stupid. The product has to be worth the cost. Sadly, Festool is often insulting to it's customers with regards to pricing. One example, their long-life CT36 filter bag costs a ridiculous $328CAD, and they have the nerve to market this as "a cost-effective alternative to disposable filter bags." So I bought an anti-static Dust Deputy instead, and it has already paid for itself (after a year of DD use, the bag that came with the CT36 is still virtually empty). Another example, their router table set is $2,325CAD, without the router! Sorry, but when you're competing with the likes of Jessem, I can get a *better* product for *less* money from your competitor. Festool has priced itself completely out of that market, for no good reason. Even my local Festool dealer trashes the pricing trends, and has said on more than one occasion that a lot of their products are not worth the money. This coming from a Festool dealer! The Kapex now costs $500 more than when I bought it a couple of years ago. If I had to buy one today, I wouldn't do it. Festool needs to realize that their customers are not suckers, and we'll look elsewhere if their products do not have reasonable value. Please reduce your prices.
P.S. MFS700: $720 for some extruded aluminum and some metal brackets. Plexiglas Template Routing Aid: $462 [eek] ... are you kidding me? It's some bits of plexiglas and some screws that any skilled hobbyist can whip up in an afternoon from spare parts. It's prices like this that I find truly disgusting, and ultimately make me question the value of all Festool products.
P.S. MFS700: $720 for some extruded aluminum and some metal brackets. Plexiglas Template Routing Aid: $462 [eek] ... are you kidding me? It's some bits of plexiglas and some screws that any skilled hobbyist can whip up in an afternoon from spare parts. It's prices like this that I find truly disgusting, and ultimately make me question the value of all Festool products.
ajones
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Nigel said:
I'm not so sure I have a midi and a ct26 they work fine but are no better than the competition but they are a bit too fragile for my liking, the control panel broke on my ct26 when a 3ft length of 4x2 fell against it
I used to use the trend t30's before and found the suction slightly better
Well only yesterday my ctl26 fell of a scaffold! Yes I am an idiot for allowing that to happen, but the point is it is fine apart from the hose garage part being broken.Not only that but the RO 90 sys was on top and it broke in pieces. I actually manged to re-assemble it and although it is cracked it still opens and closes. So not sure about 'fragile'.I suppose if we let 4 x 2's fall on them and let them fall off a scaffold gotta accept there gonna get damaged. Haven't any Trend experience - but I had a 'pro' Karcher vac that burned out after 1 year.I complained to Karcher and they sent me an ex demo and 1 week later the impulse function quit and it started to shut off after a few seconds.Had good suction too but it didn't fill the bags like a Festool.Festoolfootstool said:
mastercabman
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I was looking for a small vac to keep in the van for on site workFestoolfootstool said:
I used to have the mini and sold it to a friend and got the 22 back in 2006
It was too big so last summer I looked at the mini and could not believe how much it was
So I got the new Fein turbo 1 for $300.00
I like it very much
Very good suction, very quiet I also like the foot print better than the Festool
The mini will be $500.00 coming in April
I just don't see anything to justify the extra $
I have been looking at Bosch and Makita for future tool investments
I have already invested in Bosch cordless and Lboxx
And I have been very happy with it so far
And so does my bank account!
What's more real world than a fall off a scaffold? As for Fein, the multimaster was a great innovation but the quality and efficiency of the sanding accessories is pisss poor compared to Festool, may as well not have bothered to make them. RO90 blows any other detail sander out off the water IMO.I only have the multimaster so can't speak for Fein's extractors.Festoolfootstool said:
ajones
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Let me make things a little clearer
I don't expect a short piece of wood that was on the floor( it did not fall from a height) it was leaning and just toppled onto my ct26 and broke it.
I would expect something, anything that fell of a scaffold to suffer some damage exactly as you describe
I don't expect a short piece of wood that was on the floor( it did not fall from a height) it was leaning and just toppled onto my ct26 and broke it.
I would expect something, anything that fell of a scaffold to suffer some damage exactly as you describe
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Nigel said:
Sorry to hear about your experience, but real happy to hear that you didn't have time to try and save it. Every time I have tried to save a tool falling from heights I have cursed at myself later for doing it. Then I had to get down and change my shorts. Not worth it.
Peter
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