Festool is (partially) moving to imperial in North America

[typeshige]

SOLUTION:

Buy the items you want (or may want), now before the inventory for metric is exhausted:

Item #  New Item #  Description
574553  574690      Planer HL 850 E Imp.
574339  574691      Router OF 1010 EQ Imp.
574342  574692      Router OF 1400 EQ Imp.
574354  574689      Router OF 2200 Imp.
561556  574683      Circular Saw TS 55 REQ Imp.
561438  574684      Circular Saw TS 75 EQ Imp.
561730  574685      Circular Saw TSC 55 REB Li
561718  574686      Circular Saw TSC 55REB Li XL
495717  201182      Parallel Side Fence
495718  201183      Parallel Guide Extension

For me, that would be:

561438 Circular Saw TS 75 EQ              $780.00
574342      OF 1400 EQ Router            $560.00
57000023    Parallel Guide Set              $335.00
                                                    ____________                                                 
                                                        $1,675.00

I wish this was an option for me.  Why couldn't the parallel guides be offered in metric still?  I wasn't planning on getting it right this moment and I'm not trying to be dramatic, but I do feel a little bit of stress about getting stuff I want in metric before its gone.

I don't think I checked this forum as much in a day as I did today and it's all because I'm curious what folks think about this move.

I find myself agreeing with nearly all the pro-metric comments and it would please me to no end if Festool USA ends up reconsidering this move.

Like others said, the US is becoming metric in the technical fields.  In the sciences and medicine, it's all metric.  We talk about the size of semiconductors in nanometers.  Camera lenses are always in mm.  Most cars have bolts and nuts in metric. Etc.

I think the metric system is absolutely at home in fine wood working (I'm thinking furniture and cabinets) since we strive for precision and accuracy which is arguably easier with the metric system, but I admit for house builders putting up framing, I don't see it moving to metric.

So I think should the carpentry saws with the cross-cutting rails (HKC 55, HK 55, HK 85) ever come to the US market, those should absolutely have imperial units because it'll be used for house building primarily but perhaps keep the other stuff available in metric.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Ujipster]

I bet you this is an economic decision to grow sales. Probably see them in home depot next. Interesting news.

 

[Ajax]

Wow.  I can't believe this thread is still going.  I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work. 

It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope.  I have the imperial sticker on my TS55.  I only use it as an initial guess at the thickness I'm cutting, but usually drop the blade to check clearances.  I do the same with other tools.

 

[McNally Family]

Wow.  I can't believe this thread is still going.  I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work. 

It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope.  I have the imperial sticker on my TS55.  I only use it as an initial guess at the thickness I'm cutting, but usually drop the blade to check clearances.  I do the same with other tools.

This is an argument that could go both ways:

"It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope".

So you have never been to a Pharmacy, Dentist, Doctor, Vet or Hospital?

"I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work". 

Ever driven by a farm, and seen a green John Deere tractor out in the field?  Every nut and bolt on that tractor is in Metric.  The tractor can't be serviced without metric tools.

Metric is everywhere, even in this country.  You just need to open your eyes and think.

 

[Jimdude]

I have the imperial sticker on my TS55.  I only use it as an initial guess at the thickness I'm cutting, but usually drop the blade to check clearances.  I do the same with other tools.

with my metric scale, I don't have to guess and then double-check. YMMV

 

[Ajax]

Wow.  I can't believe this thread is still going.  I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work. 

It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope.  I have the imperial sticker on my TS55.  I only use it as an initial guess at the thickness I'm cutting, but usually drop the blade to check clearances.  I do the same with other tools.

This is an argument that could go both ways:

"It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope".

So you have never been to a Pharmacy, Dentist, Doctor, Vet or Hospital?

"I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work". 

Ever driven by a farm, and seen a green John Deere tractor out in the field?  Every nut and bolt on that tractor is in Metric.  The tractor can't be serviced without metric tools.

Metric is everywhere, even in this country.  You just need to open your eyes and think.

Sorry.  I work in the aerospace industry.  If we get anything in metric units we convert it to imperial units and go from there.  When I said "I don't know a single person in the US who..." I was limiting that to people who I actually know in engineering.  Come to think of it, my doctor uses imperial units for height and weight.  I don't know what doctors you are visiting.

I do think...I think some of these arguments for "metric or bust" are funny.

 

[Ajax]

I have the imperial sticker on my TS55.  I only use it as an initial guess at the thickness I'm cutting, but usually drop the blade to check clearances.  I do the same with other tools.

with my metric scale, I don't have to guess and then double-check. YMMV

So when I cut 3/4" or 5/4" boards I working with I should convert that millimeters and use the metric scale on my TS55?

Like I said, I have the imperial sticker on there and use it to get me close.

 

[Jimdude]

So when I cut 3/4" or 5/4" boards I working with I should convert that millimeters and use the metric scale on my TS55?

Like I said, I have the imperial sticker on there and use it to get me close.

I have 18mm boards, obviously. Doesn't change the fact I set the plungedepth without having to check with a phantom plunge.

How does that work anyway? You still don't know how deep you'll plunge unless the workpiece is hanging over an edge. But if you'd cut like that, you don't have splinter protection at the bottom. So you have to move the workpiece as well?

 

[Kev]

I do think...I think some of these arguments for "metric or bust" are funny.

[member=20208]Ajax[/member]

Your are not being nice.

These are serious concerns for people. Maybe you role in aerospace doesn't involve the metric system in ant way. Can't imagine that would be the case - but that's fine with me [smile]

 

[Ajax]

So when I cut 3/4" or 5/4" boards I working with I should convert that millimeters and use the metric scale on my TS55?

Like I said, I have the imperial sticker on there and use it to get me close.

I have 18mm boards, obviously. Doesn't change the fact I set the plungedepth without having to check with a phantom plunge.

How does that work anyway? You still don't know how deep you'll plunge unless the workpiece is hanging over an edge. But if you'd cut like that, you don't have splinter protection at the bottom. So you have to move the workpiece as well?

I get it done.  All in imperial: plans, stock, layout and measuring tools, etc.

Like I said, the angst over Festool using imperial scales on their tools (which were designed and manufactured in metric units) is quite silly.  Here in NA most folks use imperial units.  That's a fact. 

And to be honest, the metric units on Festool products was a negative for me.  I liked the tools enough that I decided to by them and compensate (make imperial to metric conversions and apply imperial stickers as required).

 

[Michael Kellough]

Continuing the general debate - metric vs. Imperial - in this thread is not helpful imo.

Which pattern of marks are on a stick matters little unless you have to communicate with others about which one of those marks is relevant to the project. If you work alone a "mute" story-stick is far more precise and foolproof.

But, only two of the tools that will change from metric to Imperial include simple scales on sticks; the Planer 850 and the Parallel Fence. Those two are simply stickers that could be changed and in the case of the Parallel rails the scale could be both metric and Imperial simultaneously.

The other tools have geared depth adjustments, either rack or screw. Will the Imperial gear range be higher or lower?

If the Imperial saw's depth adjustment rack is toothed in 1/32" increments it could be considered an improvement but if it is dumbed down to 1/16" increments...

I don't know of any router other than Festool that allow direct reading of depth adjustment finer than 1/128". Probably because of how much real estate it takes to express Imperial fractions. The existing Festool router depth adjustment allows direct reading of roughly 1/250" and it only takes a little white hash mark and an occasional single digit number to keep track of what the setting is.

I want to know more about the nuts and bolts of this change. The old general debate is a bore.

 

[Ajax]

I do think...I think some of these arguments for "metric or bust" are funny.

[member=20208]Ajax[/member]

Your are not being nice.

These are serious concerns for people. Maybe you role in aerospace doesn't involve the metric system in ant way. Can't imagine that would be the case - but that's fine with me [smile]

You take this way too seriously.  This is a forum about woodworking tools.  Live in your metric based world and be happy as I am in my imperial one.  Festool plans to cater to both if us.  What's wrong with that?

 

[McNally Family]

Wow.  I can't believe this thread is still going.  I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work. 

It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope.  I have the imperial sticker on my TS55.  I only use it as an initial guess at the thickness I'm cutting, but usually drop the blade to check clearances.  I do the same with other tools.

This is an argument that could go both ways:

"It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope".

So you have never been to a Pharmacy, Dentist, Doctor, Vet or Hospital?

"I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work". 

Ever driven by a farm, and seen a green John Deere tractor out in the field?  Every nut and bolt on that tractor is in Metric.  The tractor can't be serviced without metric tools.

Metric is everywhere, even in this country.  You just need to open your eyes and think.

Sorry.  I work in the aerospace industry.  If we get anything in metric units we convert it to imperial units and go from there.  When I said "I don't know a single person in the US who..." I was limiting that to people who I actually know in engineering.  Come to think of it, my doctor uses imperial units for height and weight.  I don't know what doctors you are visiting.

I do think...I think some of these arguments for "metric or bust" are funny.

Thank you for adding that qualifier, concerning your broad statement about who you know and who you don't know when it comes to working with metric.  My Dad was an engineer and designed and patented many items during his working life.  Just to test your theory about engineers, I went back and looked at each of his patents , and all were drawn and submitted in metric  (These are 35 year old submissions).  I find it hard to believe that no one in the entire aerospace industry works with metric.  Having said that however, I don't know any high level engineers in that industry personally, so I will refrain from making a definitive statement.

You are correct that doctors will list weight and height using imperial, but they do that for your benefit not theirs.  They assume you don't understand metric.  Their explaining to you in imperial is the equivalent to you adding that imperial sticker to your saw, it is simply easier for them.  Trust me when I say, doctors are trained to think in metric first, as are pharmacists, dentists, nurses and vets, or anyone who deals with medicine or medical issues.

I would say that the mechanics who work on foreign cars, or John Deere tractors for that matter, think first in imperial, then metric (for wrench size), as they can simply look at a nut , and gauge what size metric wrench they will need from experience, not conversion.

Many posters on this thread are frustrated because they have made a considerable commitment/investment in learning and using the metric system, and are now shocked that Festool, specifically for the North American market, is switching from metric to imperial for certain tools. 

I don't find that genuine frustration funny at all.

   

 

[leakyroof]

Wow.  I can't believe this thread is still going.  I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work. 

It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope.  I have the imperial sticker on my TS55.  I only use it as an initial guess at the thickness I'm cutting, but usually drop the blade to check clearances.  I do the same with other tools.

  As an automotive technician who works on Land Rovers, it's the only system of measurement I tend to see since Land Rover usually isn't that good at always giving an Imperial measurement alongside the standard Metric one for specs.
However, as an amusing aside to all of this.  Picture working on the older Land Rovers that used the former GM V-8 that Rover bought from GM back in the '60s.
We had SAE threads in places left from original GM tooling, Metric threads in places on the engine that Land Rover updated at some point, and some parts bolted to the vehicle were possibly Whitworth since neither an Imperial Wrench nor a Metric one fit the nut or bolt.... [eek]
I'm totally fine with Metric, it's any haphazard approach to giving a Standard across a tool line or a vehicle for that matter that makes me laugh a bit since I've lived through Chaos of non-standardization before... [embarassed] [embarassed]

 

[Ajax]

Wow.  I can't believe this thread is still going.  I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work. 

It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope.  I have the imperial sticker on my TS55.  I only use it as an initial guess at the thickness I'm cutting, but usually drop the blade to check clearances.  I do the same with other tools.

This is an argument that could go both ways:

"It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope".

So you have never been to a Pharmacy, Dentist, Doctor, Vet or Hospital?

"I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work". 

Ever driven by a farm, and seen a green John Deere tractor out in the field?  Every nut and bolt on that tractor is in Metric.  The tractor can't be serviced without metric tools.

Metric is everywhere, even in this country.  You just need to open your eyes and think.

Sorry.  I work in the aerospace industry.  If we get anything in metric units we convert it to imperial units and go from there.  When I said "I don't know a single person in the US who..." I was limiting that to people who I actually know in engineering.  Come to think of it, my doctor uses imperial units for height and weight.  I don't know what doctors you are visiting.

I do think...I think some of these arguments for "metric or bust" are funny.

Thank you for adding that qualifier, concerning your broad statement about who you know and who you don't know when it comes to working with metric.  My Dad was an engineer and designed and patented many items during his working life.  Just to test your theory about engineers, I went back and looked at each of his patents , and all were drawn and submitted in metric  (These are 35 year old submissions).  I find it hard to believe that no one in the entire aerospace industry works with metric.  Having said that however, I don't know any high level engineers in that industry personally, so I will refrain from making a definitive statement.

You are correct that doctors will list weight and height using imperial, but they do that for your benefit not theirs.  They assume you don't understand metric.  Their explaining to you in imperial is the equivalent to you adding that imperial sticker to your saw, it is simply easier for them.  Trust me when I say, doctors are trained to think in metric first, as are pharmacists, dentists, nurses and vets, or anyone who deals with medicine or medical issues.

I would say that the mechanics who work on foreign cars, or John Deere tractors for that matter, think first in imperial, then metric (for wrench size), as they can simply look at a nut , and gauge what size metric wrench they will need from experience, not conversion.

Many posters on this thread are frustrated because they have made a considerable commitment/investment in learning and using the metric system, and are now shocked that Festool, specifically for the North American market, is switching from metric to imperial for certain tools. 

I don't find that genuine frustration funny at all.

 

First off, I never said that metric isn't used in aerospace.  See Airbus.  I simply was talking about people "I know" in the industry.

Second, these folks who went metric when they bought into Festool can get a sticker to convert back to metric.  Problem solved.

 

[Bohdan]

  As an automotive technician who works on Land Rovers, it's the only system of measurement I tend to see since Land Rover usually isn't that good at always giving an Imperial measurement alongside the standard Metric one for specs.
However, as an amusing aside to all of this.  Picture working on the older Land Rovers that used the former GM V-8 that Rover bought from GM back in the '60s.
We had SAE threads in places left from original GM tooling, Metric threads in places on the engine that Land Rover updated at some point, and some parts bolted to the vehicle were possibly Whitworth since neither an Imperial Wrench nor a Metric one fit the nut or bolt.... [eek]
I'm totally fine with Metric, it's any haphazard approach to giving a Standard across a tool line or a vehicle for that matter that makes me laugh a bit since I've lived through Chaos of non-standardization before... [embarassed] [embarassed]

And I had to live with one of those vehicles, a Range Rover built during a change from imperial to metric which when you went to buy spare parts you had to quote the serial number and then you would get parts that may or may not fit because their records weren't that good.

 

[RVHernandez]

Many posters on this thread are frustrated because they have made a considerable commitment/investment in learning and using the metric system, and are now shocked that Festool, specifically for the North American market, is switching from metric to imperial for certain tools. 

I don't find that genuine frustration funny at all.

Exactly!

 

[jeh]

Having metric and imperial markings would be a better solution as it works for everyone, however, I realize that would not be possible on all tools. Stickers for TS's have been available from other sources for several years so it's not like there were not any options. The plus is that for most of the tools that change will be possible and can be done by the owner. Hopefully the changeover kits will be fairly priced.

 

[Jimdude]

I get it done.  All in imperial: plans, stock, layout and measuring tools, etc.

Like I said, the angst over Festool using imperial scales on their tools (which were designed and manufactured in metric units) is quite silly.  Here in NA most folks use imperial units.  That's a fact. 

But this isn't - for me - about metric vs. imperial (coz that is no contest   ), it's about your workflow. You 'approximate' with the scale, then do a phantom plunge (and afterwards adjust?). Why even bother with a scale to begin with, then?

 

[Nat X]

Anyone who needs any semblance of accuracy is using a backlash-free depth gauge and making test cut after test cut before they risk a single fiber of valuable plastic, metal or hardwood. The amount of play in the depth turret of every single plunge router Festool makes should be far more cause for alarm than what units are printed anywhere. They're there for approximation only.