Festool kapex for first fix?

[ldmillar1981]

Hi Guys,

I am looking to pick the brains of any Kapex owners, I am a carpenter in the uk, I do both first fix and second fix carpentry as well as cabinet making. Generally I will start a project at first fix (timber framing) and finish after the client has moved in.

I have a dewalt dw712 SCMS that I have had for nearly 8 years and it is showing signs of giving up, so the replacement Is being researched, i have in mind is the either the kapex 88 or 120, I know it will be invaluable regarding the second fix (trim) work and cabinet building, but what about framing and roof construction is it overkill or unsuited? I can't afford to have 2 saws, one for first fix and the other for the finer work.

Any advise or experiences using either kapex for first fix would be helpful in aiding my decision.

Cheers
Leigh

 

[Deansocial]

Most framing i do with a circular saw and speed square. Much faster than lugging stuff to a saw all the time. Also it has less limits like a scms. I too have the dw712 and when funds permit i am going to upgrade to the kapex 120 for second fix.

 

[Holzhacker]

So over here, on the other side of the pond ... we generally call that rough carpentry and finish carpentry.
I have a Kapex and would use it for both if needed. However like Dean, I tend to use a circular saw and speed square for framing work. Over the years though, my older chop saw typically gets recycled for framing work when I buy a newer chop saw. i.e. the Bosch replaced the Hitachi, the Kapex replaced the Bosch, etc.
I don't have an issue using my Kapex for rough work but would rather avoid it. How often did you think you were moving that 6x6 timber slower or lower but instead you bashed it into the side of the chop saw? I know I've done it plenty of times. An old chop saw, ah so what. A newer Kapex, that would not make for a good day.
I'd relegate the dewalt to rough work and save the Kapex for interior work.

 

[GhostFist]

I'm not sure judging, just a personal thing, but it always confused me why some people insist on using scms on rough framing. Much faster to cut off the pile with a skill saw. There are some fancy tools available that give you a the ability to make fast and super accurate angled and beveled cuts that offer the same portability though.......

 

[Kev]

I'd be going to the KAPEX for important compound angles ... But as said, I'd be taking the tool (whatever it is) to the big timber, not the other way round.

 

[joiner1970]

Hi Ian , how's my old mafell biscuit jointer doing? ;D

 

[Tinker]

I am not a carpenter, but have done a few framing jobs and helped with interior trim work.  Also have done my share of form work.
For all of the rough work, even since i got my Hitachi SCMS, And later, my ATF 55 and guide rails, if i have to do my cutting out in the wild, I will still use my ancient Milwaukee circular saw for most work.  The Festoys go outside for sheet work, but stay in the shop for all other work.  I use the Hitachi only sparingly in the shop as I can make more consistantly accurate cuts with the ATF/Guide rail/MFT combination.

I also still use the Milwaukee inside with speed square if i think there might be hardware in the wood.  The Festool blades, i find can take quite a beating, bt i just feel more comfortable with the Milwaukee if i am concerned about damaging a blade.
Tinker

 

[Sparktrician]

I'm with Tinker on the inside/outside work division.  The Festool goodies stay inside.  Outside work usually revolves around the elderly Skil wormy for PT lumber or anything suspect that might include non-wooden objects.  Otherwise, it's the P-C sidewinder with a speed square.  I occasionally use a Bosch battery-powered saw when scavenging materials and when AC is not close-by. 

 

[ldmillar1981]

Cheers guys,

On the flip side of the guys that prefer a circular saw, i can't see why you wouldn't use a SCMS for framing, the biggest timber I generally use is 9" x 2" floor joists, walls are generally 4" x 2" internal and 6" x 2" external. I'd rather have a bench set up with the scms next to the timber and cut away. Noggins are a breeze, clamp a stop on for repeat cuts. I can see the circular saw approach if your using 4" x 4" and above.

Thanks for the advise I will give the kapex some harder thought, I am not sure about using it outside, just hope the dw712 doesn't die in the next month or so.

Does any one know the main differences between the kapex 88 and 120 the sites I have seen the specs look the same but the 88 doesn't seem to have the special height mode that the 120 does?

As for the festoys staying inside I agree to a point, I use my ts55 for sheet work outside but have some Makita tracks for outside tasks and the festool ones stay internal. I have found the carvex 420 great for cutting birdsmouths in rafters.

Cheers
Leigh

 

[Kev]

Cheers guys,

On the flip side of the guys that prefer a circular saw, i can't see why you wouldn't use a SCMS for framing, the biggest timber I generally use is 9" x 2" floor joists, walls are generally 4" x 2" internal and 6" x 2" external. I'd rather have a bench set up with the scms next to the timber and cut away. Noggins are a breeze, clamp a stop on for repeat cuts. I can see the circular saw approach if your using 4" x 4" and above.

Thanks for the advise I will give the kapex some harder thought, I am not sure about using it outside, just hope the dw712 doesn't die in the next month or so.

Does any one know the main differences between the kapex 88 and 120 the sites I have seen the specs look the same but the 88 doesn't seem to have the special height mode that the 120 does?

As for the festoys staying inside I agree to a point, I use my ts55 for sheet work outside but have some Makita tracks for outside tasks and the festool ones stay internal. I have found the carvex 420 great for cutting birdsmouths in rafters.

Cheers
Leigh

Lasers, special angle device (that you can still buy as an accessory) and the height mode you mentioned.

 

[Alan m]

i have the dw 718 .
i use it for rougher work like framing studs ect.
i wouldnt dream of using my skil saw for this. i dont think it would be any faster. i think the skil saw would allow for odd angles etc that screw up a stud

if i was doing a roof then i would use a skil saw

if i had a kapex then i would only use it for good work

 

[Deansocial]

Cheers guys,

On the flip side of the guys that prefer a circular saw, i can't see why you wouldn't use a SCMS for framing, the biggest timber I generally use is 9" x 2" floor joists, walls are generally 4" x 2" internal and 6" x 2" external. I'd rather have a bench set up with the scms next to the timber and cut away. Noggins are a breeze, clamp a stop on for repeat cuts. I can see the circular saw approach if your using 4" x 4" and above.

Thanks for the advise I will give the kapex some harder thought, I am not sure about using it outside, just hope the dw712 doesn't die in the next month or so.

Does any one know the main differences between the kapex 88 and 120 the sites I have seen the specs look the same but the 88 doesn't seem to have the special height mode that the 120 does?

As for the festoys staying inside I agree to a point, I use my ts55 for sheet work outside but have some Makita tracks for outside tasks and the festool ones stay internal. I have found the carvex 420 great for cutting birdsmouths in rafters.

Cheers
Leigh

A lad that works with me alot questioned me about jus t using a circular saw for framing till he saw me use it. Dont get me wrong i see your point about noggings etc as i do use the chopy for them but most stuff i use circular saw. Its alot less limited with angles and bevels

 

[Frank-Jan]

Cheers guys,

On the flip side of the guys that prefer a circular saw, i can't see why you wouldn't use a SCMS for framing, the biggest timber I generally use is 9" x 2" floor joists, walls are generally 4" x 2" internal and 6" x 2" external. I'd rather have a bench set up with the scms next to the timber and cut away. Noggins are a breeze, clamp a stop on for repeat cuts. I can see the circular saw approach if your using 4" x 4" and above.

Thanks for the advise I will give the kapex some harder thought, I am not sure about using it outside, just hope the dw712 doesn't die in the next month or so.

Does any one know the main differences between the kapex 88 and 120 the sites I have seen the specs look the same but the 88 doesn't seem to have the special height mode that the 120 does?

As for the festoys staying inside I agree to a point, I use my ts55 for sheet work outside but have some Makita tracks for outside tasks and the festool ones stay internal. I have found the carvex 420 great for cutting birdsmouths in rafters.

Cheers
Leigh

Lasers, special angle device (that you can still buy as an accessory) and the height mode you mentioned.

The turn knob operated bevel adjustment is also missing on the ks88.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Last week my ts 55, cut and kapex got caught in a snow storm. I just kept working,they were fine.

 

[WelshWood]

As already mentioned, The Kapex is proven to be one of, if not THE best finishing saw in the business right now, so you could warrant the purchase just on those terms.

However, as for first fix, as others have said, I always seem to use a speed square and a circular saw, much much quicker than having to double handle wood to the chopsaw and then back to the area of work

~WW

 

[Tinker]

I just reviewed this thread.  Earlier, i had stated I use my TS 55 (ATF 55 at the time) in the shop, but my old Milwaukee outside and where i suspect possible hardware damage.  In a moment of weakness, after i bought my TS 55 REQ, I was talking with my son.  I had planned to keep the old ATF for outside work and the TS 55 for in the shop.  I have a couple of the original single T-groove rails that i leave out in the machinery barn to use with the ATF, sooo... i thought it was a great plan to give him my old Milwaukee.

Ugh........ one should never act on spur of the moment.  I have had to make a few cuts on long lumber just so I could get it into my shop.  It is so much quicker for just one or two cuts outside to use my old speed square and circular saw method than to set up my Festoy saw.  I am not comfortable, not from safety factor, but from accuracy, with making cuts with my track saws minus the track.  I buy all of my hardwood rough cut, so extreme accuracy of those "shorten the board" cuts are not so important, but I just am not comfortable using the ATF free hand.  So far, i have managed to keep myself persuaded that a Kapex is not a top necessity for me.  I do, at times, require a reinforcement of willpower  [unsure]
Tinker
Tinker